Blade steels... Are we suckers?

After years of perusing these types of forums, I have come to this conclusion...if enough people got on here singing the praises of a knife blade coated in turd, within a few months many of us would buy one and be singing its praises to the next generation of knife enthusiast to sign on here, who would likewise shortly follow suit. Its all about "advertising".
 
I can understand seeking out good steel from a reputable maker who can properly shape and heat-treat it to work; but, I don't understand the quest for a longer lasting edge. Unless, you happen to work on the line in a slaughter house, of what possible use is a longer lasting edge? What is wrong with just touching up the edge as needed when you work with it; it has been done that way for centuries and it doesn't require much time or special tools or skills.

n2s
 
The 420HC on my production Buck 501 cuts better than any of the 1095 I have. It's a very good slicer for my uses, and sharpens up quickly.
I'm a simple guy though.
 
not2sharp said:
I can understand seeking out good steel from a reputable maker who can properly shape and heat-treat it to work; but, I don't understand the quest for a longer lasting edge. Unless, you happen to work on the line in a slaughter house, of what possible use is a longer lasting edge? What is wrong with just touching up the edge as needed when you work with it; it has been done that way for centuries and it doesn't require much time or special tools or skills.

n2s
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What's wrong with touch ups? Nothing. But who wants a boring name for the steel? It's all about bigger numbers and cool words. Your steel is inferior because it's not MEGAULTRAGIGADURATUFFMAXTECHOSAURUS OVER9000. Product names matter for sales when people are buying based on wants not needs.
 
It's all about quality of materials, quality control, and price for me.

I don't want a Gerber, because Gerber uses low quality materials and lacks in quality control... They are cheap for a reason.
I like my ZT's, because they use mid to high quality materials and have good quality control... But, you pay for every bit of it.

I recently picked up a Spyderco PM2 and have been extremely impressed with it. Blade steel is a factor in my purchasing of knives, but it does not hold me back from a good design and good quality knife.
 
I think a lot of times the noticeable difference for me is in the sharpening. I can tell when sharpening how well the steel will hold up. I have 3 s3vn knives there fine but they dont hold an edge like my 3v or 5160 but thats carbon vs stainless. Form me carbon still rules the day I love O1, 5160, 80crv2, 52100. I dont like stainless but most good folders only come in stainless so I live with it.
 
My friend drives an ice cream truck and for years he used the 440a version of the leek to slice up ice cream boxes and stuff on a daily basis and said he never had an issue,would touch up the blade every now and then and keep on going.another friend with a spyderco tenacious put a real razor edge on it, and also cut through many boxes and stuff at work, his co workers couldn't believe how he was dicing up this stuff.Would they have been better off with m390 or s35vn ? what they used sure seems to have done the job.
 
Bob W said:
But look the prices for steel stock, and figure how much steel is in a typical knife. Probably not more than $2 or $3 dollars difference in most cases between 440C and modern "SuperSteels."
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The knife I made that cost $30 for O1 steel, that same amount of steel in 3V would be right around $90-$100.
There can be a big difference in price of steel, especially in a knife which uses more steel.
 
You do make a good point Riz2530, along with others on here. I think it's hype amongst the knife knoobs (let me finish my point). I, myself went through this. They get a few cheap budget folders to start their collection, then they set the bar higher. They want a better steel and a better manufacturer and so on. They want to keep buying knives to try new awesome steels while selling off their cheaper knives, but most start to realize at this point (users not collectors), that they don't need this, then go back to their favorite all around knife and steel. Which is a steel that holds an edge reasonable long, but isn't a pain to sharpen, and they stick to one of their favorite knives with their favorite lock.

I believe people that heavily use a knife on the job will want S90v or something similar, so they don't have to sharpen often. On the other hand, I, like most people who don't heavily use knives, would be perfectly fine with 8cr. Currently, my opinion is I want something that lasts longer than that, but something that is not insane to sharpen which is S30v and S35vn and I enjoy a decent quality knife even if I don't need it. But, of course I love knives, so I'm going to have a good quality knife.

I think a lot of people go through that, most don't really need these high vanadium steels, but some actually do need them because they heavy use them everyday & don't want to sharpen them all time.
 
A cpm154 blade that wont hold and edge has something bad,bad wrong with it..That steel properly heat treated will outcut many,many steels..It should out cut S30v in most cases.
 
This thread turned out to be an excellent discussion!

As for that CPM 154 blade, i think it was run soft on the Rockwell scale. It would lose its shaving capability instantly. It kept an OK working edge though. It didnt stop me from purchasing other models from that manufacturer though. Their A2 and 3V are outstanding!
 
not2sharp said:
I can understand seeking out good steel from a reputable maker who can properly shape and heat-treat it to work; but, I don't understand the quest for a longer lasting edge. Unless, you happen to work on the line in a slaughter house, of what possible use is a longer lasting edge? What is wrong with just touching up the edge as needed when you work with it; it has been done that way for centuries and it doesn't require much time or special tools or skills.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
So, just adding another wrinkle to the discussion, but to me this is the "more" interesting part of the steel discussion.

So, back when I very first got into knives, I spent a lot of time researching why people cared about which steel something was (other than carbon vs stainless, that was intuitive in terms of corrosion resistance). And one of the best explanations I saw was that with "better" (tougher/stronger at least) steels, a knife could be thinned out, and have the edge geometry much thinner than a knife out of "worse" steel, while retaining most of (if not all) the same overall strength/toughness.

I had a thread roughly about this a few months ago here in general that was about if you could build a knife like the Becker BK16 out of CPM-3v and make it out of 1/8in stock (instead of 5/32) while retaining the same type of durability. And the response was more or less yes, yes it was possible. That the change in steel would allow for better geometry (thinner blade stock, as well as much thinner behind the edge) while still keeping roughly the same overall strength/toughness/use characteristics.

So in that sense, steels are interesting to me, as they allow you to get the same robustness, but with better cutting performance. Any thoughts on that part?
 
Bark River has been doing just this thing! All of their A2 models were run in 3/16 stock, which cut very well because of its convex grind. Once they tested 3V enought, they started releasing the LT (lite version) of those same A2 blades but in 3V steel with 5/32 stock. This allows for exceptional cutting performance and the same lateral toughness of the 3/16 A2 blades.
 
I was thinking kind of the same thing. I like to try new steels but never when they first come out. On the other hand Buck does a great job with 420 HC & I have never had a problem with good and 1095.
So buy what you like & use what. Works.
 
I seem to get the best results from Swedish steels and the like. Also VG-10. Mora, Opinel, and the like all give great results for me. Some better steels didn't seem to offer any real advantage. As soon as the edge was less aggressive, it got some help (a touch up on a steel or sharpmaker), and back to work. Only takes a second.
 
If you can't sharpen a knife properly, then I think you are wasting money on fancy blade steels. I would guess most people waste money of blade steel, because I KNOW that I have. Sure, D2 may keep its edge longer than AUS6 (< no, that is not a typo) but if you don't know how to bring the edge to a lasting apex, then I think you are wasting your money.
 
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