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I agree with you Culp. But even though my knives are pretty, I like knowing I could put them up against any ugly knife in the world and hang right in there no matter what the task.
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Bladeforums - Best Bowie 2007
- Thread starter RogerP
- Start date
I agree with you Culp. But even though my knives are pretty, I like knowing I could put them up against any ugly knife in the world and hang right in there no matter what the task.
In response to the first point: Who cares? They could be made from mild steel. No one will ever cut anything with them so they'd never know.
I also love the quivering awe everyone has for the magical "heat treatment". Let's remember, up until industrialization made idiots of us all, knives, other than manufactured, were made, as a side-line, by guys who paid the bills welding buggy springs, locomotive valve-yokes, axle stubs etc. Knives are easy. That's why I make them. The "mystery" of heat treatment is a hold-over from the middle ages. It's nothing but a spot on the continuum of hard/tough. You want to see a piece of steel that earns its keep, go to the hardware store and buy a tap. It'll only cost you a couple of bucks and you'll see what a "serious" example of heat-treated steel looks like.
Art knives are painstakingly heat-treated, I know. What a waste of effort.
Anyway, so, you want to cut blades with one of your objets d art to make the point that they can cut, even if they never will. Fine. Let me get the proud owner of "lookin' rough - must be tough" on the horn and we can set this up. Just remember, if I lose no one will be out the price of a decent car to replace it.
Just because it costs a lot doesn't mean it can do more. See Holtey Hand Planes
"Art knives are neither"
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dbrock,
It's taking all my (limited) cold blood not to be rude. But never mind that - one thing you should keep in mind is that the vast majority of us are not knife users, we're knife collectors. It doesn't mean that we don't appreciate knives for what they are, but we don't buy them for that purpose. In fact, as an urban guy I need no more than a few kitchen knives, 1 pocket folding knife, and one pack knife for when I go camping. I certainly don't need bowies, daggers, chute knives, or hunters - and yet I have many of those.
Given that, why should we collectors buy knives like the one you posted, which might well be tough but is before all butt ugly? In fact, it is so ugly that your attitude makes me wonder whether you can make a pretty knife?
Many of the makers you implicitly denigrate also make "tough" using knives, but theirs at least are easy on the eye. Check out Burt Foster's "blue collar" line for an example.
It's taking all my (limited) cold blood not to be rude. But never mind that - one thing you should keep in mind is that the vast majority of us are not knife users, we're knife collectors. It doesn't mean that we don't appreciate knives for what they are, but we don't buy them for that purpose. In fact, as an urban guy I need no more than a few kitchen knives, 1 pocket folding knife, and one pack knife for when I go camping. I certainly don't need bowies, daggers, chute knives, or hunters - and yet I have many of those.
Given that, why should we collectors buy knives like the one you posted, which might well be tough but is before all butt ugly? In fact, it is so ugly that your attitude makes me wonder whether you can make a pretty knife?
Many of the makers you implicitly denigrate also make "tough" using knives, but theirs at least are easy on the eye. Check out Burt Foster's "blue collar" line for an example.
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dbrock, you don't like "pretty" knives, and obviously know nothing about high performance forged knives if you don't think these can cut so why are you wasting your time on this thread?
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Dbrock I understand your point that some of these knives will never be used even thought some will ( i use alot of my good knives in fact almost all) But to come on a thread about high end bowies and knock them is like going on a sports car thread and knocking ferrari and porsche. Seems like your looking for an argument. To think that the makers of these high end knives could not make crude properly heat treated blades is silly. To say there is no need for these pieces is like saying why buy a ferrari when a vette will do the same thing. Different taste's better fit and finish. I looked at your site and I really like some of your knives
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot the entire, dilettante world of "collectors". How silly of me. By all means. Buy all the overpriced, over-hyped, over-decorated pieces of (supposedly) functional "art" you want. You do know what art is don't you? Subconscious expression, spiritual, below-the-radar shit? Like Monet?
These knives of which you so proudly boast are "craft". Nothing wrong with that. It's every bit as respectable as "art" maybe moreso. It's just different.
In the middle ages, these knives would have been purchased by noble young scumbags, but even they wouldn't have called them "art".
Regarding the Ferrari/Corvette argument. People who buy the former are morons. Rich morons, but morons just the same. The same with Corvette buyers. IT'S A CAR, PEOPLE.
I don't bother remembering who wrote what, mostly because I only come here every so often, then get grossed-out and leave, but, to whoever made the reference to "high-performance" knives: Please...
For a knife to be "high-performance", shouldn't it be expected to "perform"? I know, these knives kick ass when it comes to sitting in a display case and lookin' bitchin', and showing how wicked bad-ass you are by owning them. But really, they're nothing but a sharp piece of steel with a handle. At least. I assume they're steel. Not that any of you would ever know.
High-performance notwithstanding, if they're not out in the world, actively cutting things, what the hell are they? They're not "knives". They're some weird post-industrial...artifact. I don't get it.
My problem is that I've got some sort of apocalyptic world-view where I think that a knife represents an item of extreme value; a value that diminishes exponentially in relation to what it costs.
Question: If the world ended tomorrow, what would you rather have;
a precious, high-performance "art knife"
Or how ever many of my own "Son of Gung-Ho Knives" the same price represents?
I'll go away now. I only dropped by to poke at you folks a bit. Kick me out if you want.
But, I'll leave you with this:
Bernard Levine is full of shit.
:barf::barf::barf::barf:
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Damn Man! Who lit the fuse on your tampon
Culpeper
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The other side of the coin...
Simile...or a Porsche to a truck show? Seems to me that anyone that brings up the essence of a Bowie against artistic freedom is being perceived as looking for an argument and that is not so. Artists aren't known for taking constructive criticism sitting down and that may or may not be a shortcoming depending on the circumstance. Again, as with bringing a Porsche to a truck show? Just because a majority of custom knife makers and custom knife collectors select one knife as "Best in Show" doesn't mean the Australian Cattle Dog is not best "herder" in the auditorium. Sure the other herders were pretty with groomed coats and hair covering their eyes and won the ribbons but the Blue Heeler is the only one that would actually take on the biggest most stubborn hog on the farm...Simile.
To be practical, a Bowie is made to be hit by another knife and survive. It would be really embarrassing to have one's multi-folded blade broke in two by a plain tool steel blade. The ancients used so-called Damascus and Wootz methods to achieve this same effect. But, today's makers try to recreate this in the form of art and there is nothing wrong with that for it is art. It is for the most part untested because we no longer fight by the blade. On the far end of this spectrum are the few sword makers in Japan that still use the methods of their ancestors. These swords are tested and do live up to their reputations. But it would take years or decades for an American custom knife maker to even come close to that sort of quality and beauty. And that is a fact and no simile. We just don't have the pedigree or the need for it, to be practical, like the Australian Cattle Dog.
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Culpeper I would be the first to agree that any embelishments to a bowie that would make it structuraly weak would be a stupid addition to a knife that might be required to save your skin but I do not think any of these knives would fall into that category. You mention Japanese swords the best swords where Highly polished works of art. when in battle motiff they would possible be fitted with more plain fittings but all in the same craftsmanship has always been high on any warriors list. I for one do not care for the overly done art knives but i can not say i don't admire and apreciate them for what they are. They where hard to make and took alot of time and I can always admire craftmanship in anything I look at. The dog pic in my signature is my hunting dog he has caught many a hog and even deer or anything else he chases and he looks good doing it. He goes to show you can look good and perform well to boot. Happy New Year P.S. if thats your dog I like him
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Culpeper
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New Mexico (Occupied Texas Territory)
Excellent pheasants. No kidding. Take that dog bear or cougar hunting.
BTW, my grandfather came from Italy and settled in Monongahela, PA. I went to PA a couple of years ago just to visit Gettysburg. We stayed on the square. It was a great trip. I dragged Mrs. Culpeper over the Battlefield for three days. I tried to get her to run across Pickett's Field on the third day but she was too tired. Why did I go to Gettysburg. Mom is a Texan, Daughter of the American Revolution as well as Daughter of The Confederacy. I got kin buried up there. World War II got a lot of different people together. Go figure.
Excellent pheasants. No kidding. Take that dog bear or cougar hunting.
BTW, my grandfather came from Italy and settled in Monongahela, PA. I went to PA a couple of years ago just to visit Gettysburg. We stayed on the square. It was a great trip. I dragged Mrs. Culpeper over the Battlefield for three days. I tried to get her to run across Pickett's Field on the third day but she was too tired. Why did I go to Gettysburg. Mom is a Texan, Daughter of the American Revolution as well as Daughter of The Confederacy. I got kin buried up there. World War II got a lot of different people together. Go figure.
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DBrock-"The maker whose crudeness is only overshadowed by that of his blades".
Culpeper
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Coming from someone that claims to be living under a bridge? Take that rattlesnake flag down. You're not worthy.
If you got something that disputes his claims than put it on the table. The Bowie he made me cut down 4" Pinion Pine branches. That Bowie will probably break or destroy two-thirds of the blades presented on this thread. I wouldn't call his work crude unless he got under my skin for some childish reason.
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Coming from someone that claims to be living under a bridge? Take that rattlesnake flag down. You're not worthy.
If you got something that disputes his claims than put it on the table. The Bowie he made me cut down 4" Pinion Pine branches. That Bowie will probably break or destroy two-thirds of the blades presented on this thread. I wouldn't call his work crude unless he got under my skin for some childish reason.
Not only does he have a bad attitude, but his knives look like shit. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. This is a custom knife forum. The Amateur junk knife forum is down the hall. Read the flag again...
I have an $18 Camillus machete that will cut 4" branches all day long. BFD.
I hope you kiddies feel better now. I am sure we will see Mr. Brock competing with his truck spring bowie at a competition real soon. Right.
Culpeper
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Quit your crying and acting like a kid so you can get somebody to get a forum infraction. Like I said, you got something to dispute his claims than put them on the freakin' table and quit crying. Send me one of your knives. I'll send it back broke in two. With his knife. I would be embarrassed to claim to be a collector or maker and in the same breath brag about having a $18 knife. But I guess that what one gets for living under a bridge. What a joke.
Culpeper
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I love Cloudcroft. Great place up in the Sacramento Mountains. I wish I could live up there.