Bladeforums - Best Bowie 2007

[Culpeper]

Culpeper, I don't see what you are bothered by?

Perhaps we are all taking this too serious. It's basically just a thread to recognize the special knives/photos of 2007 and meant to provide some fun over the Holidays when members have time off.

There's no prize involved, not even really "best bowie" as we can't handle and/or examine them. It's just entertainment.

Yeah, its entertainment, but I'm still not getting my point across, but there we go again with the "special knives/photos of 2007" appendix. Some people just don't read the instructions. It is for the Best Bowie 2007. I would like to think we are all learned collectors of knives and know the differences. So, its not "special knives/photos 2007". Its "Best Bowie 2007". We have muddied the distinction that RogerP set forth. Also, as learned collectors we don't need to handle a knife to determine if it is Bowie for this thread as set forth. You can look at a knife and tell the difference. But, we left enough room open for a variety of knives, and again, I think the final poll should be opened to all members. Let the collective mind of the forum determine how we, as a group, view what a fantastic Bowie is. I call it substance over forum and I feel those of us that have participated in the final selection of which the poll will based upon may end getting raped by the knife collecting world for not knowing what a Bowie is if we have a closed vote for paying members only. That is why I want a popular vote open for all members. I believe that an open vote will ensure an actual Bowie knife winning the day. Keep in mind that we normally don't see a Bowie in a liberal art museum. We see them in historical museums.

I apologize if I'm coming across as being angry. That is not the case. I do have some feelings of dread because I want to see the right outcome, which is the best Bowie brought forth under the guidelines. The liberal guidelines gave enough room for some people to bring forth a variety of large knives. But we as collectors know the difference between a large knife and the spirit of the Bowie knife and for myself I limited myself somewhere within the guidelines rather than abuse them and post a pretty picture of a pretty knife or subsequently select 7 as such. What one brought forth in this thread, as well as, the 7 selections posted says more about the person's knowledge of the Bowie than the quality or craftsmanship of the knife. Substance over form. Let the popular vote stand. My whole argument is based on merely allowing the entire membership the opportunity to vote on what "we" selected. I guarantee the one that is the best "Bowie" will win.

 

[brightred]

darn, i love this thread! but then, although i deeply respect your opinions, i feel a strong urge to promote the incredibly clean work of greg neely, whose bowie got one single vote (mine), which is of course intolerable.

i therefore invite you most obsequiously to revise your verdicts. you'll be able to do me that favour just by taking a closer look at the following pictures, two of them taken from the web site of our most respected peter gill, who will hopefully forgive me the unauthorized publication.

and now, gentlemen, don't shoot me

regards,
hans



from peter, not rotated and in proper size, my favourite from post number 1:

not part of the competition, another of peter's (or, more probable, the reverse side of the bowie shown above)

and finally mine:

 

[Kevin Jones]

Yeah, its entertainment, but I'm still not getting my point across, but there we go again with the "special knives/photos of 2007" appendix. Some people just don't read the instructions. It is for the Best Bowie 2007. I would like to think we are all learned collectors of knives and know the differences. So, its not "special knives/photos 2007". Its "Best Bowie 2007". We have muddied the distinction that RogerP set forth. Also, as learned collectors we don't need to handle a knife to determine if it is Bowie for this thread as set forth. You can look at a knife and tell the difference. But, we left enough room open for a variety of knives, and again, I think the final poll should be opened to all members. Let the collective mind of the forum determine how we, as a group, view what a fantastic Bowie is. I call it substance over forum and I feel those of us that have participated in the final selection of which the poll will based upon may end getting raped by the knife collecting world for not knowing what a Bowie is if we have a closed vote for paying members only. That is why I want a popular vote open for all members. I believe that an open vote will ensure an actual Bowie knife winning the day. Keep in mind that we normally don't see a Bowie in a liberal art museum. We see them in historical museums.

I apologize if I'm coming across as being angry. That is not the case. I do have some feelings of dread because I want to see the right outcome, which is the best Bowie brought forth under the guidelines. The liberal guidelines gave enough room for some people to bring forth a variety of large knives. But we as collectors know the difference between a large knife and the spirit of the Bowie knife and for myself I limited myself somewhere within the guidelines rather than abuse them and post a pretty picture of a pretty knife or subsequently select 7 as such. What one brought forth in this thread, as well as, the 7 selections posted says more about the person's knowledge of the Bowie than the quality or craftsmanship of the knife. Substance over form. Let the popular vote stand. My whole argument is based on merely allowing the entire membership the opportunity to vote on what "we" selected. I guarantee the one that is the best "Bowie" will win.

First of all this isn't my thread, so Roger will decide how he wants to run it.

I will agree with you in that most should be able to identify a bowie from a non-bowie from a photo, however no one IMO can determine the "best" of any style of knife from a group of that style knives without handling and examining it.

I consider all five of the current vote leaders "Fighters", but than is a "Fighter" a "Bowie"? I guess you will have to answer that for us?

 

[Stephen F]

This thread is in danger of degenerating into a load of bo$$#cks!

Heres the facts ....

c. 60 fixed blades are shown representing bowies/fighters/large utility knives as determined by there originating cultures.

This represents what? Maybe 3% to 7% of this years output of said handmade knives of this type!

Voted on my maybe 30 to 40 collectors out of say 500-1000 globally!

These knives are pretty darn nice, and most of use know what we are talking about, but lets not kid ourselves and start arguing about it .... this is a bit of fun and hardly representative in terms of statistical significance.

.... I even excluded a couple of my favourites from my list to avoid too much of the same old same old .....and I can guarantee MY favourite will not even make the short list! It may even not be on my list

Custom knives are about individualism, if any of us need the comfort of mass acceptance and approval of our choices and decisions in this then we are probably in the wrong hobby!

Now lets get on and enjoy this for what it is!

Stephen

 

[Kevin Jones]

Well said Stephen.

 

[betzner]

Heck, I didn't even know there was a vote on this. I always did prefer salivating over pictures rather than print.

 

[ptgdvc]

Hans,

Thanks for posting the real image of the El Patron Bowie by Greg Neely, MS.

If we had all the knives in one room, for everyone to judge, it might very well be chosen number one. Unfortunately, hands on experience with his work is hard to come by, as is the case with Russ Andrews, JS & Nick Wheeler, JS. C'est la vie. Count yourself as lucky, for having a great example of his work.

Also, these guys would run me out of town on a rail, if I only voted for my knives.

P

 

[lwrhea]

Man, That Bowie by Greg Neely is awesome!!!!! I just had to say it. :thumbup:

Lin

 

[Kevin Jones]

Heck, I didn't even know there was a vote on this. I always did prefer salivating over pictures rather than print.

Bob, would have been nice to have some of those beautiful stock removal Bowies of yours in the voting.

 

[Culpeper]

First of all this isn't my thread, so Roger will decide how he wants to run it.

I will agree with you in that most should be able to identify a bowie from a non-bowie from a photo, however no one IMO can determine the "best" of any style of knife from a group of that style knives without handling and examining it.

I consider all five of the current vote leaders "Fighters", but than is a "Fighter" a "Bowie"? I guess you will have to answer that for us?

You keep replying to my posts and skirting the issue because you already decided who should vote as I did. Roger asked for suggestions as I quoted in the first post you replied to. You already posted you want paid members only. I voted opposite and explained why. So, I don't even know why you keep replying to my posts. You just keep giving me more room to cast my vote again and again. My next reason that everyone should have a right to vote is that you can afford to pay for anyone's membership should they not be able to afford it.

I'm willing to help non-paying members who regularly contribute here that truly can't afford a membership. kj1056@aol.com

 

[Jose Reyes]

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I'd also like to see the forum's poll feature used. Kevin made a very generous offer to anyone who's contributed so far but can't afford to pay for a membership. I'm also more interesting in seeing how the regulars here vote than necessarily setting it up so just anyone who wanders by can cast a vote.

 

[ptgdvc]

OK, I am getting a headache. :grumpy: The last time I checked.....

The way this site works, ONLY paying members CAN vote in polls. End of story.

P

 

[RAN]

I just re-upped my expired Gold..and it hasnt yet been processed..oh well
I couldn't wouldnt pick a best..to me there isn't one and every knife offered in this thread is outstanding ( I'am curious to see which gets the votes though)
and Thanks for bring that Neely back to the Top it is Wonderful.

 

[Kevin Jones]

You keep replying to my posts and skirting the issue because you already decided who should vote as I did. Roger asked for suggestions as I quoted in the first post you replied to. You already posted you want paid members only. I voted opposite and explained why. So, I don't even know why you keep replying to my posts. You just keep giving me more room to cast my vote again and again. My next reason that everyone should have a right to vote is that you can afford to pay for anyone's membership should they not be able to afford it.

Culpeper, IMO there is no issue here to skirt. And I couldn't care less who you voted for or what is a Bowie and what isn't in the context of this thread.

As far as the voting, it's a simplicity thing as we have a polling devise designed for this, why not use it?


IMO, the exception to this is those who love custom knives and participate here however can't afford to buy a membership must less afford to buy a custom knife. And yes, I do offer to pay these folk's membership for one year if they fall under the circumstance I mentioned earlier. All that love custom knives are an asset to the industry, not just folks with money.

 

[RogerP]

The votes for the 7 finalist are being calculated manually by people digging through the post and marking on a scratch pad. That has margin for error and is work.

Why not use the BF poll? Every other poll we have done this last year used it.

Yes, it is work - and I appreciate your help.

And I wanted to take the opportunity to thank Nick and Joe in particular for their contributions - I am very glad to see some makers chiming in. You guys - and all who responded - have really taken this on in the positive light in which it was intended.

As for voting on finalists, I am inclined to do both.

Those that have a paying membership:

You MUST vote via the poll. You MAY also state on the forum which knife you chose and why (and I hope you will - the process is much more interesting that way), but your comments will not be tallied.

Those with a basic membership:

You MUST vote by stating in the thread which knife you chose. You can't contribute to the polll, so your entries will be added to the poll results once voting is closed.

I don't want anyone excluded from the final vote, but I sure want to keep manual counting to the bare minimum necessary.

I apologize if I'm coming across as being angry. That is not the case. I do have some feelings of dread because I want to see the right outcome, which is the best Bowie brought forth under the guidelines. The liberal guidelines gave enough room for some people to bring forth a variety of large knives. But we as collectors know the difference between a large knife and the spirit of the Bowie knife and for myself I limited myself somewhere within the guidelines rather than abuse them and post a pretty picture of a pretty knife or subsequently select 7 as such.

Culpepper, there is only one "right outcome" - what the membership selects as the best bowie from this truly stellar group. It may not be your choice and it may not be mine, but that won't make it the wrong choice.

I get your point about wanting an open vote, but I'm not really with you on the rest of it. You seem to think that there are too many knives that do not meet YOUR definition of a bowie, but what you fail to acknowledge is that there really IS no such conclusive defiition - at least, not one accepted by all to the exclusion of any other.

Simply stated - NOBODY KNOWS FOR CERTAIN EXACTLY WHAT JIM'S KNIFE LOOKED LIKE. Therefore, anyone that tells you that they have THE definition of a bowie - well - you don't want to be buying Florida real estate from them. Even if you look at "bowie" knives that are representative of the first couple decades after his death (i.e. - a MUCH closer temporal connection than exists today) you will see a HUGE variety in shapes and styles of blades and handles. About the only thing they have in common is that they wren't real small. And what is it you seem to have against "pretty" knives? You sure don't seem to use that as a complimentary term. Is there some requirement that bowies be "ugly" to be authentic?

The "bowie" knife is an evolution based upon an uncertainty. When people -for whom Jim Bowie and the Alamo were current events, not ancient history, -clamored to purchase "a knife like Bowie's" - they sure didn't all get the same kind of knife. This thread has, in my view, comprehensively demonstrated what the "state of the bowie" looks like in 2007.

Let me be clear: I DO NOT put myself forward as the final arbiter of what knives relfect "the true spirit of the bowie" - THAT is why I kept the definition as inclusive (I prefer that to "liberal") as I could.

Please don't read more into this thread than needs be. There has been good discussion, some truly great knives and a lot of fun to this point. I hope it continues

Roger

 

[JParanee]

I do not want to seem stupid but I voted on my pics in my past post is there a poll on this site that i am supposed to go to or is my picks in. Sorry first forum I have ever belonged to and I am not to computer savay.


jp

 

[RogerP]

I do not want to seem stupid but I voted on my pics in my past post is there a poll on this site that i am supposed to go to or is my picks in.

Your selections for finalists have been tallied. What is being discussed now is the method for voting on ONE knife from among the finalists. This will be in a separate (new) thread to be started some time tomorrow.

Roger

 

[JParanee]

thanks roger

 

[Culpeper]

Yes, it is work - and I appreciate your help.

And I wanted to take the opportunity to thank Nick and Joe in particular for their contributions - I am very glad to see some makers chiming in. You guys - and all who responded - have really taken this on in the positive light in which it was intended.

As for voting on finalists, I am inclined to do both.

Those that have a paying membership:

You MUST vote via the poll. You MAY also state on the forum which knife you chose and why (and I hope you will - the process is much more interesting that way), but your comments will not be tallied.

Those with a basic membership:

You MUST vote by stating in the thread which knife you chose. You can't contribute to the polll, so your entries will be added to the poll results once voting is closed.

I don't want anyone excluded from the final vote, but I sure want to keep manual counting to the bare minimum necessary.



Culpepper, there is only one "right outcome" - what the membership selects as the best bowie from this truly stellar group. It may not be your choice and it may not be mine, but that won't make it the wrong choice.


Roger

Roger that!

To clarify, one can find the basic definition of a Bowie in the dictionary and the laws of certain states that had a problem with so-called "Bowies" and "Arkansas Toothpicks". It was our state legislatures that actually defined a Bowie and it had nothing to do with James Bowie or his brother. I don't want to get into a pissing contest over the Bowie. I want everyone to vote to ensure a Bowie gets elected. And it looks like that is going to be the rule and I'm happy. The rest is subjective and I stand by the definitions we can all easily obtain by looking through the dictionary and the law. As for "pretty", I don't recall anyone in Gunsmoke stating, "That sure is a pretty knife you got dare". Also, there is no need to yell at me. I'm familiar with both sides of the argument considering the Bowie and I appreciate your hard work in bring this together.:thumbup: And now, like Forrest Gump would say, "That is all I got to say about that."

 

[ptgdvc]

Roger,

I would suggest that we handle it in a similar manner to the stag thread. Start with 6 or 7 knives in first round one vote and then eliminate the bottom three or four. The final vote would be between the top three.

P