BladesByBaz

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
32,839
You are doing good,...really good.

These knives you are making from the bar of steel are much better in shape.................but it is a shame that you haven't read a bit before you rush ahead.

If you had, you would have read about distal taper, which would have made that nice filework and blade look much better.
You would have know that the burner should be on a tangent with the top of the forge chamber, not aiming straight in at the floor.
You would have seen and read some about blade shape and not making overly large and fat handles. ( last group of knives)


Take a deep breath, slow down a bit, do a bit of reading, fill out your profile ( really important), and post some plans and drawings first before rushing ahead.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
You are doing good,...really good.

These knives you are making from the bar of steel are much better in shape.................but it is a shame that you haven't read a bit before you rush ahead.

If you had, you would have read about distal taper, which would have made that nice filework and blade look much better.
You would have know that the burner should be on a tangent with the top of the forge chamber, not aiming straight in at the floor.
You would have seen and read some about blade shape and not making overly large and fat handles. ( last group of knives)


Take a deep breath, slow down a bit, do a bit of reading, fill out your profile ( really important), and post some plans and drawings first before rushing ahead.

Thanks. Gotta know about it first to read about it. That's called learning and I love it! I've just read into distal taper thank you for that.

I'll adjust the angle of my burner port.

Knife and handle shape is at my discretion, but they are improving with each knife according to my own taste. Not something I ever want to get seriously into for selling, but lots of fun to make and give to friends and family. Also a good break from my many other projects in the workshop.

Great advice mate. Keep it comin'! :D

I was thinking it would be good to elevate the blade slightly off the tile in the forge so I made these two little stands today to minimise contact with the steel.

What do you think? Just an idea.

Baz.

U1HApR1.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
Looking at distal taper. Google images etc. Looking down on the spine of the blade, I see a lot of knives taper off all the way from the handle to the point. Many don't taper until just before the point.

I suppose it depends on the knife. Is there any advantage to a taper all the way?

I tapered mine off tonight when I did stock reduction to the cutting edge. I still need to file the point off a bit as it's too fine and delicate for hardening in the forge as it is.

4ejEkZu.jpg
 

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
32,839
This is the BF search engine. Plug in "distal taper" and you will find a lot of info. Plug in "forge burner placement" forge build", etc, and you will find those.

Those cradles probably won't cause any harm, but if the forge is heated up fully and the flames swirl around the chamber ( not down on the blade), laying the blade on the forge floor is the normal procedure.

Most of us move the blade around, flip it over, move in and out, etc. to keep it heating evenly. The standoffs used in HT are for multiple blades in a electric HT oven. Like these:
http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/kf688.htm
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
Thanks mate. Upon a search I found this.

I'm a total newbie to knife making and have gotten to the point I want to heat treat some 1084. I've decided to build a propane forge for this purpose. I'm at the point in my build that I need to install the burner inlet nozzle and want to verify that I have it right. The info on these forums has been very helpful, but I've been a little confused as most of the forges I've seen have the nozzle going straight into the heat chamber and some even recommend installing the nozzle pointing towards the back of the chamber. So, before I strike an arc, I wanted to make sure I've got this right.

Does this look like I'm on the right track?

nozplace.png


Thanks for any feedback!!

So tomorrow I'm taking my forges to work to cut off the ports and move them to the back and fix the angles.
 

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
32,839
Good. Post some pics tomorrow night. I think you will find the forge runs much better.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
Many things have got in the way of me taking the forges to work to move those ports, but hopefully I'll get a chance soon. I seem to have got the smaller one flowing well for now though.

1. Got the forge up to a good mix and temp now. Well over 1000C.

ajl3Kix.jpg


2. Annealing and hardening is a breeze now. Just need to make myself some longer tongs.

u8T51mU.jpg


3. Also got the temps right in the oven for tempering around 210C for an hour or so. Instead of overheated and burnt blue, I've got a lovely straw yellow.

eH0dU4M.jpg


4, 5, & 6 Scales cut and rough-shaped.

fkoSX9M.jpg


PXs3IRZ.jpg


j6Fc2EX.jpg


7. Scales glued with 2 part epoxy resin, (araldite) and clamped overnight.

0RQztBf.jpg


8. Shaped and sanded ready for finishing.

L6ME7SO.jpg
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
4,674
Ah yes, the exuberance of the new maker! You obviously have the interest and you are pretty handy at building stuff. Now that you have jumped in with both feet and made some finished knives slow down. You will learn much more if you concentrate on doing the very best you can at every stage of construction. Quality always beats quantity. Your knives will be much better for it. Take some time and do some reading. Search out examples of other people's work you respect and see what well made knives actually look like. You are doing great. But you will be wasting an opportunity to bring your work to a whole new level if you continue making the same kind of knives. Part of the learning process is reflecting upon your work and being critical. This is done one knife at a time. If you make 20 knives, all the same, and haven't learned something new from each one you have just progressed at 1/20th of the rate you could have. As excited as you are now imagine being 20 times the knifemaker you are now if you just slow down a bit and concentrate.
 

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
32,839
Very nice.

Now, I want you to do an experiment to learn a valuable lesson.

Wrap that knife blade in a towel ( to protect your hand) and hold it by the blade. Give the handle a sharp rap on the spine side with a wooden/leather mallet ( or use a 2X4). I am willing to bet one or both scales fall off.

Pins are not just pretty....they are needed to prevent lateral shear of the glue joint. Additionally, if the tang to scales surface is very flat and you clamp the handle while the glue is curing, there may be almost no epoxy anywhere but through the holes in the tang. This is called a "glue starved joint". It can be prevented by grinding a slight depression in either the tang, the scales, or both. Just leave about 1/8" smooth perimeter around the outside edge.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
1,207
If you are using bar stock steel now, as it appears you are, the annealing stage is likley not necessary, as most comes annealed. In fact if it happens to get too hot you could actually be affecting the grain negatively. Also i agree with Stacy on the issue of not having pins. I have ran some tests, over a year long, and found that some type of mechanical fastener is very important. It may hold now, but drop it when it is -20, or leave it in a truck with the windows up when its 100 degrees out and it will have problems.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
Very nice.

Pins are not just pretty....they are needed to prevent lateral shear of the glue joint.

What do you make the pins out of? I have made knives in the past with pins and give them a whack with a centre punch to spread the top out. Alternatively, I've tried peining with limited success. (Missing and hitting the scale instead).

Any decent tutorials that cover the pin technique?



If you are using bar stock steel now, as it appears you are, the annealing stage is likley not necessary, as most comes annealed. In fact if it happens to get too hot you could actually be affecting the grain negatively.

It's not bar stock. It's laser-cut from large stock. Yes, it is pre-annealed, but the lasered edges are hardened - I can feel it when I do my file work on the spine. I am merely normalising the steel.
 

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
32,839
Rivets/Pins are usually brass or nickel silver ( white brass). They can be just glued in place, or lightly peened and sanded flush. They provide strong lateral shear strength. A search will find dozens of threads and tutorials on pins/rivets.

https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra


The hardened border left by the laser is two different things. The very outside is HAZ, and is a decarb layer a few thousandths wide. Then there is the hardened area. Normalizing will take care of the hardened area, but the HAZ has to be ground away. Leave a little extra in the CAD program for this.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
Rivets/Pins are usually brass or nickel silver ( white brass). They can be just glued in place, or lightly peened and sanded flush. They provide strong lateral shear strength. A search will find dozens of threads and tutorials on pins/rivets.

https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Thanks for that. Yes I already searched and watched some tuts while waiting. Seems simple enough.

The hardened border left by the laser is two different things. The very outside is HAZ, and is a decarb layer a few thousandths wide. Then there is the hardened area. Normalizing will take care of the hardened area, but the HAZ has to be ground away. Leave a little extra in the CAD program for this.

CAD? Not me!!! Rockin' it old school all the way mate. :p By hand! :D

Cheers!

Baz.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
694
Stacy, brother you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge! Adding HAZ to the list of things I must understand...

You are laser cutting by hand??????

Lol I read that and envisioned him slicing blanks out with a light saber ;)

Baz the pins are easy, you do not have to peen them or anything, you may split your scales that way if you aren't sure how to do it properly. Just go to a hobby store that sells model cars and R/C stuff and they typically have brass and stainless rod in knife pin size.

I agree with everyone elses comments that you have some issues with fit and finish to work out still, but I like your tenacity and the apparent lack of ADD and OCD, which most of us suffer from :D
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
79
Baz the pins are easy, you do not have to peen them or anything, you may split your scales that way if you aren't sure how to do it properly. Just go to a hobby store that sells model cars and R/C stuff and they typically have brass and stainless rod in knife pin size.

I agree with everyone elses comments that you have some issues with fit and finish to work out still, but I like your tenacity and the apparent lack of ADD and OCD, which most of us suffer from :D

Thanks mate. I have a good rapport with tons of metal merchants so that's not a problem.

I love what I do and if I can't be building something I go nuts. My observatory is finished bit my iron man suit and front deck construction are keeping me busy. The knives are just a bit of a break from the large projects. ��
 

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
32,839
LOL! I can see whut happnd there! ��

The strips of metal were laser cut for me and delivered as is. I'm cutting out the shapes by hand. ��

OK, that is good. I could envision you loosing fingers/hands in a laser accident.

If the strips are laser cut, just grind the edges down about .020-.050". That should remove any HAZ.
 
Top