Bluntcut Metalworks Cruforge V Superquenched Slicer Review.

[SBaker34]

I don't have a non superquenched version to compare but It's definately not fragile. I can't wait to see what it does at 20 inclusive. Just need some time to test

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

SBaker - (publicly) thanks very much for conduct these tests and wrote up excellent & objective review:thumbup:

I've quite a few non-SQ cfv knives but all produced by me, so this blind doesn't really know what a rose look like You are my eyes...

I don't have a non superquenched version to compare but It's definately not fragile. I can't wait to see what it does at 20 inclusive. Just need some time to test

edit to add: A high hardness + some RA would be interesting combo at 10dps. I am looking forward to your finding.

 

[SBaker34]

SBaker - (publicly) thanks very much for conduct these tests and wrote up excellent & objective review:thumbup:

I've quite a few non-SQ cfv knives but all produced by me, so this blind doesn't really know what a rose look like You are my eyes...



edit to add: A high hardness + some RA would be interesting combo at 10dps. I am looking forward to your finding.

You're quite welcome.

People have asked me what this steel compares to, although it only has .75% vanadium compared to s30v, 10% for s110v etc. It seems to make a difference. Its harder to polish the edge with sandpaper than s30v for whatever reason, and takes a somewhat toothy edge compared to 1095 or 420hc which with a decent bit of stropping will end up hair popping but with slide right across things. However don't take that to mean CRV doesn't take a refined keen edge, typically it slices phone book paper much smoother and cleaner than s110v given reasonable effort, possibly even s30v.

 

[jdm61]

I have heard it described as 50-100B with higher carbon content and the added .75% vanadium. My understanding was that it did not originally have the .50% or so chromium in the first couple of version, but that was added to not only make it deeper hardening but also to make it a bit easier for the mill to roll it out.

You're quite welcome.

People have asked me what this steel compares to, although it only has .75% vanadium compared to s30v, 10% for s110v etc. It seems to make a difference. Its harder to polish the edge with sandpaper than s30v for whatever reason, and takes a somewhat toothy edge compared to 1095 or 420hc which with a decent bit of stropping will end up hair popping but with slide right across things. However don't take that to mean CRV doesn't take a refined keen edge, typically it slices phone book paper much smoother and cleaner than s110v given reasonable effort, possibly even s30v.

 

[jdm61]

Blunt Cut, you said that you have worked with some Blue#2. Have you ever tried 115W8? The best way that I can describe it is it is like Blue #2 with all of the vanadium and about half of the chromium removed and replaced with more tungsten. I think that the stuff Achim Wirz brewed up at the Lohmann mill had over 2% W. Tough stuff. The comment that I heard was that if you are making a slicer, you can leave it at around 64Rc, but if you are planning to "chop nails" you might want to temper it down to 62Rc. That is with the old standard 1500F austenizing temp. I have made a couple of knives with it and been very impressed with the flexibility of the blade at those higher hardness levels. I made a sujihiki out of the stuff and it would take an edge that would cut you if you thought about it for long enough and that was without getting really crazy with putting a "fine finish" on he edge. I have a lightweight 9 inch clip point camp knife blade made of 115W8/15N20 random damascus on the bench now. that was a bot of an adventure to forge weld that stuff!! Might be worth it to find some and check it out.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Jim, thanks for sharing and appreciate your advises.

This is my current approach how to set certain parameters in knife making. Rockwell hardness is just a small window into much large context of metal: grain size, grain boundaries, grain mis-alignment angle, martensite type, RA, carbide volume+size+type. Equally important is edge geometry, blade profile, cutting force vectors and materials. Similarly/actually, I even more particular on hardening temperature & soak time, this too also within the context of how the metal was prepared prior to this hardening step.

115W8 sounds interesting, I wonder how it fares against Super Blue (PM process)? Blue&White #2 knives perform pretty well but my W2 (Aldo 0.94%C) performs better. It would be fun to tinker with UHC steels. For extra wear resistant, I mostly focus on D2, since it's easy to see drastic improvement or degradation. Thus far, I am that happy with my ht of mid & high Cr steels.

Forge weld is beyond my reach right now, so I envious of your fun adventure...

Blunt Cut, you said that you have worked with some Blue#2. Have you ever tried 115W8? The best way that I can describe it is it is like Blue #2 with all of the vanadium and about half of the chromium removed and replaced with more tungsten. I think that the stuff Achim Wirz brewed up at the Lohmann mill had over 2% W. Tough stuff. The comment that I heard was that if you are making a slicer, you can leave it at around 64Rc, but if you are planning to "chop nails" you might want to temper it down to 62Rc. That is with the old standard 1500F austenizing temp. I have made a couple of knives with it and been very impressed with the flexibility of the blade at those higher hardness levels. I made a sujihiki out of the stuff and it would take an edge that would cut you if you thought about it for long enough and that was without getting really crazy with putting a "fine finish" on he edge. I have a lightweight 9 inch clip point camp knife blade made of 115W8/15N20 random damascus on the bench now. that was a bot of an adventure to forge weld that stuff!! Might be worth it to find some and check it out.

 

[jdm61]

I don't think that Blue #2 is PM steel, just SUPER clean. I haven't tried Aldo's W2 yet because I still have quite a bit of the Don Hanson sourced round bar. I think it has a carbon content slightly over 1% and maybe .25% or so vanadium. I use Aldo's 1084 and 15N20 for forge welding. The 115W8 is a standard cast tool steel and it was used back in the day for industrial metal cutting bandsaw blades. I was told that the bean counters figured that HSS would last a bit longer and they were right....kinda. It did last longer assuming that you could keep the teeth from breaking off which was not a problem with 115W8.

So what made you decide to work with CFV? Unfortunately, because it came and went so quickly with the Crucible bankruptcy, not that many folks have had a chance to really play with it a lot other than Dan Farr, the Desrosiers and a few others.
I hear that D2 is one steel that you can apparently go off of the "factory specs" and get a lot better knife.

Jim, thanks for sharing and appreciate your advises.

This is my current approach how to set certain parameters in knife making. Rockwell hardness is just a small window into much large context of metal: grain size, grain boundaries, grain mis-alignment angle, martensite type, RA, carbide volume+size+type. Equally important is edge geometry, blade profile, cutting force vectors and materials. Similarly/actually, I even more particular on hardening temperature & soak time, this too also within the context of how the metal was prepared prior to this hardening step.

115W8 sounds interesting, I wonder how it fares against Super Blue (PM process)? Blue&White #2 knives perform pretty well but my W2 (Aldo 0.94%C) performs better. It would be fun to tinker with UHC steels. For extra wear resistant, I mostly focus on D2, since it's easy to see drastic improvement or degradation. Thus far, I am that happy with my ht of mid & high Cr steels.

Forge weld is beyond my reach right now, so I envious of your fun adventure...

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

I've same impression too, cfv is a bit toothy but not as much as those PM steels with carbide ~2um (s30v, s110v, etc..). I made some minor carbide refinement for Cfv but not sure, how I can get VC down to 250nm range.

You're quite welcome.

People have asked me what this steel compares to, although it only has .75% vanadium compared to s30v, 10% for s110v etc. It seems to make a difference. Its harder to polish the edge with sandpaper than s30v for whatever reason, and takes a somewhat toothy edge compared to 1095 or 420hc which with a decent bit of stropping will end up hair popping but with slide right across things. However don't take that to mean CRV doesn't take a refined keen edge, typically it slices phone book paper much smoother and cleaner than s110v given reasonable effort, possibly even s30v.

 

[SBaker34]

Still a bit perplexed over the patina, I had a 1095 kitchen knife sitting outside coated in the same oil for 4 days 3 of them rainy, and it didn't get a hint of corrosion, must have been damp in the sheath.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

It looks a little off from regular patina, more like a minor etching from coating. Also explain why this off-color seem a bit deep to remove with sandpaper.
Many times before giving out carbon knives, I etch knives with FeCl (Ferric Chloride) to make them more rust resistant, almost to D2 level.

Still a bit perplexed over the patina, I had a 1095 kitchen knife sitting outside coated in the same oil for 4 days 3 of them rainy, and it didn't get a hint of corrosion, must have been damp in the sheath.

 

[SBaker34]

I have some hickory wood sitting around now... dulled the chop saw blade in 2 cuts. nasty stuff.

 

[bodog]

Still a bit perplexed over the patina, I had a 1095 kitchen knife sitting outside coated in the same oil for 4 days 3 of them rainy, and it didn't get a hint of corrosion, must have been damp in the sheath.

Mine took an extremely fast etch, too. Now that I forced an even patina on it there's been no more issues but without it the knife did form some mild rust sitting in the sheath for a couple of days. Nothing some 2500 grit sandpaper couldn't easily fix, but faster than anything I've experienced before. One of the first days I used the knife I cut open a can of corned beef, within maybe 5 minutes a deep patina was already there. That patina was taken off with some metal polish so obviously it wasn't that bad. I wondered if it was just how 52100 was. My 1095 knives don't corrode as fast. I'm not worried about the easy staining as it's undoubtedly a working knife and I'm not using it to win some kind of beauty pageant.

I still wonder if it's the steel or the heat treat regimen. I still enjoy using the hell out of the knife.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Both (sbaker and bodog) knives blade finished less than 220 grit, so that could contribute to faster patina. Basically, more surface to oxide. Pitting otoh could indicates poor ht.

 

[SBaker34]

It wasn't pitted, the only odd thing was typically light surface patina or rust leaves a slightly dark or cloudy patina when lightly sanded. This kept the same orange color as I sanded. I'm pretty sure that the 220 grit scratches were why the spots didn't immediately polish out.

 

[SBaker34]

This is how masonry nails look after a night outside.. no rain just 90-100% humidity. Just showing why I have to keep my knives oiled.

 

[jdm61]

My experience is that Cru Forge V doesn't quite do the "rust if you think damp thoughts" bit like some other steel do. With as much vanadium was it has, the .5% chrome may not bind up so much in carbides and stick around in a "free" condition to give it a little bit of corrosion protection. I don't know, but the stuff seems to spot a bit less than that say W2 or 1084 if you leave it on the bench for way too long.

 

[shqxk]

How SQ-CFV compare to W2 and 52100 in term of edge strength and toughness?

 

[SBaker34]

How SQ-CFV compare to W2 and 52100 in term of edge strength and toughness?

Never used either. Beats 1095 in every catagory though.

 

[SBaker34]

Okay guys, I felt bad for mentioning it, but waiting several days to actually do it so I went out today to test the edge carving at 20 inclusive. First I started with some aged yellow poplar.

I noticed that it didn't seem to carve nearly as easily as you might expect, I wasn't sure why, but then I noticed the problem, it was too easy to cut deep, it would simply sink in at angles that would require me to hack the piece in two to finish the cut, If I was careful to take shallow cuts it hacked off pieces effortlessly.

I ended up making something that could be called a spear if you squinted and turned your head at the right angle.. finesse is not my strong suit. both pieces were the same length when I started. Oops.

The edge was damaged though, still able to shave, would be effortless to sharpen out, but still damaged.

I figured batoning would make the letter opener crowd pretty angry so I grabbed the other piece, a 2x4 and went to town ended up hitting a knot towards the end.

Messed the edge up a bit more, still shaving, still useful, but not pretty anymore.

Went and grabbed one of the pieces of dry aged hickory, this stuff is hard as nails, its like twice the weight of the poplar, and the amount of force I would have needed to make cuts like I did in the poplar would have broken the knife.

Didn't show up well but the veins on my forearm were standing out, I was making some pretty hard cuts.

The sad result of all my effort.

Edge is pretty much dinged up by this point, still usable, still fixable, but at the point where its cutting ability would have been noticeably effected and it would have taken longer to sharpen than usual.

Up to bluntcut and everyone here to decide if this is a fail or a win for the knife, I personally lean towards win, 20 inclusive and 0.012 behind the edge is awfully thin for me to be hacking and twisting chunks out of wood, the fact there was no large chipping, and that the blade didn't snap in half when batoned for that matter suggests the integrity of the steel was not compromised by the hardness or quench. I kind of doubt that anything could stand up to what I do at 10DPS, but that will remain to be seen. Currently I have no candidates to take down that thin, as on standard production knives the bevel would practically be scandi grind at that point, but you never know about the future, however I'm not totally insane so If I ever bought a thin custom such as a phil wilson, there is way I would risk damaging a knife I paid so much money for. And as always I hope you guys found it at least remotely interesting.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Thanks for putting the knife through tough tests at 10dps 0.012" edge thick. Note to myself - not to send you a straight razor - hahahaha

Pics are not showing up for me...