boker reality based folder any good?

l like this blade style.it looks very cool.if some day i meet it ,i will buy it.
by the way different people have different taste.
if you love it you buy.if youdont,you dont buy
 
As I understand it, and I could well be wrong, these grooves on the blade are there to show you how deeply you have to stab someone to kill them!

I seem to remember reading this somewhere, but like I said I could be wrong...

Besides, who's going to lie there (presumably) while'st you look closely at the blade to make sure you've pushed it in far enough???

BIZARRE........but there you go.........
 
zpaulg said:
As I understand it, and I could well be wrong, these grooves on the blade are there to show you how deeply you have to stab someone to kill them!

I seem to remember reading this somewhere, but like I said I could be wrong...

Besides, who's going to lie there (presumably) while'st you look closely at the blade to make sure you've pushed it in far enough???

BIZARRE........but there you go.........
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Yes, yes you are completely wrong.:) They are there to add rigidity to the blade. See when you remove and area of the blade like a blood groove it makes the knife more rigid since there is less steel. Hope that makes sense.
 
The shape of the fullers here, as well as the fact that one of them runs across the blade rather than down its length, make these more decorative and disfunctional.
 
Thomas Linton said:
I beams do not have sharp corners in their angles.
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Not to get too off the exciting topic of the "Boker Reality Based Folder."

Maybe I am missing your point. But, the fuller adds structural strength to the blade. Similar in construction to an I-beam. It is usually used on longer blades like swords.

Here are some examples of blade fullers (some functional, some for design only):
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=blade fuller&sa=N&tab=wi

On this particular blade, it makes two 90-degree turns. The application of this blade fuller appears to more aesthetic than functional (is this what you mean?).

This knife has the blood groove for marketing so you can say it's "reality-based" because it has a really neato blood groove to release the body's suction and bleed him better. :eek: :jerkit:
 
There is a simple matter here of good or bad tast/style.

In any area that you know about, say for example example of Music/ Rock bands, Cars, or clothing. there is good taste and bad.

For example there might be a car that you would be too embarrassed to be seen driving, or Clothes you just would not wear.

I tell you this now, in my opinion 90% of the forum members here would find being associated with that Boker "reality based" knife, an absolute ball shriveling embarrassment. It is design to appeal to a fourteen year old, it is comical.

I think your post touched a nerve because we were all attracted to those sorts of knives a very long time ago. Get a knife that will get you respect.
Regards
 
Rededge said:
Yes, yes you are completely wrong. They are there to add rigidity to the blade. See when you remove and area of the blade like a blood groove it makes the knife more rigid since there is less steel. Hope that makes sense.
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Pahtoocara said:
But, the fuller adds structural strength to the blade. Similar in construction to an I-beam. It is usually used on longer blades like swords.
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Except no used to make swords or I-beams by stock removal. If you can add rigidity, then what stops you from cutting out another and another fuller and a fuller inside a fuller to add even more rigidity? Then wouldn't you have the most rigid blade possible when you have machined out the most material possible?

You can redistritube the material in certain ways (increasing thickness in some places and decreasing it in others, ie forging fullers or grooves on swords, or flanges in strutural beams) to make a piece more rigid. You cannot machine a piece to be more rigid.
 
This may start the age old battle of Blood Groove vs. Fuller. How fitting when we are talking about a "reality-based" blade.

Obviously the (so-called) "blood grooves" on the knife of topic are for decorative and mythological purposes only. But the general design of a fuller has been used on countless blades, including recent historical blades.

Some blades that have fullers are already light enough that they really don't need a fuller just to make them lighter. For instance, a bayonet. If you have ever used a bayonet (I mean stabbed it into something hard) you will realize how much stress that the blade steel endures. I'm not just talking wimpy modern day bayonets (short)...I'm talking the longer bayonets. Why would someone (who is trying to cut costs and save money to be the lowest bidder) incorporate a design feature that increases the cost of manufacture if they did not see it as a necessity? Is it because it's a "blood-groove" or does it increase the blades ability to withstand stress?

I will pose the question: If the fuller does not strengthen the blade, then why do many blades have fullers?

Obviously, my answer is because the fuller can add structural benefits to the blade.

It took me a little while to find reference available online, but here is one I found. It appears that I am not the only one who thinks that a fuller can make a blade structurally stronger. Read the rest of the AG Russell link, it's very informative.

Fullers on knives do the same thing, although on a smaller blade the effects are not as easily seen or felt. Actually looking at fullers from an engineering point of view they really are a sophisticated forging technique, and it was the fullered swordblade that pointed the way to modern "I" beam construction.
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This quote is from:
http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/knife_encyclopedia/articles/blood_groove.html
 
Quote of Pahtoocara quoting Agrussell, "Fullers on knives do the same thing, although on a smaller blade the effects are not as easily seen or felt. Actually looking at fullers from an engineering point of view they really are a sophisticated forging technique, and it was the fullered swordblade that pointed the way to modern 'I' beam construction."

Again, this blade is not forged, it is stock removed.
 
The Boker "Reality Based Folder" we are talking about has fullers that really don't do anything. They are aesthetic not structurally enhancing. I think this is the issue. I think we agree on this issue. However, I don't think fullers used on all blades made with the stock removal method are lacking a function.

kel_aa....rather than have me post the entire article there, read the rest of the AG Russell link. You will also notice in the AG Russell definition of the word "fuller" it doesn't say the benefits are exclusive to forged blades.

Again, from the AG Russell website:
When you fuller a blade you do several things:

1: You lighten it by using less material, as the act of forging in the fuller actually widens the blade, so you use less material than you would if you forged an unfullered blade. (In stock removal the blade would also be lighter, as you would be removing the material instead of leaving it there).

2: You stiffen the blade. In an unfullered blade, you only have a "single" center spine. This is especially true in terms of the flattened diamond cross section common to most unfullered double- edged blades. This cross section would be rather "whippy" on a blade that is close to three feet long. Fullering produces two "spines" on the blade, one on each side of the fuller where the edge bevels come in contact with the fuller. This stiffens the blade, and the difference between a non-fullered blade and a fullered one is quite remarkable.
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When combined with proper distal tapers, proper heat treating and tempering, a fullered blade will, without a doubt, be anywhere from 20% to 35% lighter than a non-fullered blade without any sacrifice of strength or blade integrity.
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Fuller
A groove that lightens and stiffens the blade. Also known as a blood groove, though the term is inaccurate.
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Pahtoocara said:
The Boker "Reality Based Folder" we are talking about has fullers that really don't do anything. They are aesthetic not structurally enhancing.
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I agree they are probably for aesthetic reasons. Maybe it directs the blow flow out of the wound channel along the fuller, redirectly it 180 degreess via the vertical groove, and back at the victim, totally confusing crime scene investigators with the blood splatter pattern?

However, how can say they are not structurally enhancing in this case and then go on to say they can be structurally enhancing in other cases? My position is that proper use of fullers and such can decrease the weight of a piece while minimizing the loss of structural strength. If you agree with that, then all is well.

If not, then:

Pahtoocara quoting AG Russell said:
When you fuller a blade you do several things:

1: You lighten it by using less material, as the act of forging in the fuller actually widens the blade, so you use less material than you would if you forged an unfullered blade. (In stock removal the blade would also be lighter, as you would be removing the material instead of leaving it there).

2: You stiffen the blade. In an unfullered blade, you only have a "single" center spine. This is especially true in terms of the flattened diamond cross section common to most unfullered double- edged blades. This cross section would be rather "whippy" on a blade that is close to three feet long. Fullering produces two "spines" on the blade, one on each side of the fuller where the edge bevels come in contact with the fuller. This stiffens the blade, and the difference between a non-fullered blade and a fullered one is quite remarkable.
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Okay, so the bolded text uses the word also, which implies a quality in addition to, right? The statement says stiffer in addition to lighter, its reasoning being you "remove the material instead of leaving it there". So let's remove more material. Heck, why not remove almost all the material, and have a blade of infinitismal mass, for the ultimate stiffness?

Does that sound logical to you? (If it does, then I guess there is nothing more to discuss. We can agree to disagree on this matter?)

Or does the alternative sound more logical:

"You can redistritube the material in certain ways (increasing thickness in some places and decreasing it in others, ie forging fullers or grooves on swords, or flanges in strutural beams) to make a piece more rigid. You cannot machine a piece to be more rigid."

Because something is in writing doesn't mean it is correct. Nor does it relieve you of your obligation to use your mind.
 
Since this thread seems to have morphed into a discussion of fullers:

We have had engineers post on this forum that a machined fuller that is equal in all dimensional respects to a forged fuller has the same effects. It's the resulting shape that does the work.

I suppose one may attempt to dismiss their observations on the grounds that, "Just because an expert says it doesn't mean it's true." Better would be to produce contrary information. Until then, most would probably go with A.G. and the engineers.

Fullers also have effects other than lightening and stiffening. In the Marbles Ideal, a fuller was placed behind the edge to improve the ability of the edge to penetrate materials being cut deeply. A similar fuller is behind the edge of many high-quality axes.
 
Thomas said:
We have had engineers post on this forum that a machined fuller that is equal in all dimensional respects to a forged fuller has the same effects. It's the resulting shape that does the work.
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I agree completely. However, is anyone saying the machined piece is stiffer than the barstock it was machined from?
 
Because something is in writing doesn't mean it is correct. Nor does it relieve you of your obligation to use your mind.
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I guess the topic of fullers holds a near and dear place in some people's hearts. ;) By the way, I am using my mind.....:cool:

Obviously, removing so much material when making a fuller as to create an "infinitismal mass" would be absurd. There needs to be a balance. Knowing how much material to remove to be beneficial is the trick.

To go the opposite way with your argument, take a knife and make it as big as possible. Heck, make the knife infinitely large so it's utterly indestructable. Just like the knife reduced to nothing, it's useless. You need to have a balance.

AG Russell posts here on bladeforums. I asked him to weigh in on the fuller issue. Lets see if this happens.

Just more food for thought:
Chirra - a fuller in the main body of the blade. fullers are used in blades in order to decrease the weight without decreasing the strength of blade (the same concept as that of 'I-beams' used in building-construction). some khukuris have no chirras, some may have multiple chirras (see note on chirras below).
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Taken from: http://www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/Construction.html
 
Obviously, removing so much material when making a fuller as to create an "infinitismal mass" would be absurd.
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Why would it be absurd? It would be the stiffest (which roughly means strongest) it has ever been, right? A stronger and lighter blade is somehow completely absurb?
 
However, how can say they are not structurally enhancing in this case and then go on to say they can be structurally enhancing in other cases?
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I'll admit, I'm going by the picture only. I think they are for aesthetic purposes on the Boker "Reality Based Folder".

I agree completely. However, is anyone saying the machined piece is stiffer than the barstock it was machined from?
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This is possible.

We have had engineers post on this forum that a machined fuller that is equal in all dimensional respects to a forged fuller has the same effects. It's the resulting shape that does the work.
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Yes!!!
 
kel_aa said:
Why would it be absurd? It would be the stiffest (which roughly means strongest) it has ever been, right? A stronger and lighter blade is somehow completely absurb?
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You need a BALANCE!!!!

You said: "infinitesimal" (I think it was just spelled wrong)

Mirriam-Webster says:
Infinitesimal
1 : taking on values arbitrarily close to but greater than zero
2 : immeasurably or incalculably small <an infinitesimal difference>

Even if you could make a blade like that, could you carry it? And if you carried it, could you find it in your pocket when you needed it?

kel_aa........c'mon now.................;)
 
We have had engineers post on this forum that a machined fuller that is equal in all dimensional respects to a forged fuller has the same effects. It's the resulting shape that does the work.
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I'm jump in too. Yess!!! But this point has been been contested. It's the question of what "work" the fuller does.
 
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