I've owned lots of Randalls before and can tell you a bit about them. First, Randall has about three types of tangs. They have a full tang (visible on the upper handle and butt end. It measures 7/8 X 1/4 inches--very strong--they have a patent on it--#177.590). They also have a full length tang that measures 1/2 X 1/4" that extends the full length of the handle with the tang end threaded to hold the butt cap on. Lastly, they make a stick tang of 1/2 X 1/4" that extends about 3 to 4 inches into the handle, has no butt cap, but facilitates the placement of a compass in the butt. Many of the models of knives Randall makes can be had with any of the tangs mentioned, depending on the type of handle requested. They are very strong but I don't buy a knife because I can do pull ups with it. If it has a reasonably strong tang/handle, I buy it because it has good edge holding, edge geometry/cutting properties. The amount of cutting you will do with your knife will so outweigh the need for a pry bar as to make prying ability a small concern.
Bowie knife
- Thread starter Chicahiro Ishida
- Start date
Bowie aka "The Arkansas Toothpick"
This is the kind of question that I like to answer. I really love bowies and specialize in bowies as a custom knife dealer.
Bowies are both beautiful and offer a very aggresive cutting tool. My perference is for hand forged custom bowies. I find that really cut the best and conform to traditional styling of the historical period. Here in Arkansas, Bowies are part of our history and heritage. Here a bowie represents both a knife and our early culture. For more <a href=http://www.knifeart.com/knifeart/arkniftradby.html">historical information.</a>
I think a good forged bowie knife easily works well as a survival knife, fighting knife, camp knife, or just a presentation item. A good forged custom bowie is also something that is passed down for generations and enjoyed for years and years.
Many bladesmiths spend a life time learning and working toward the perfect bowie knife.
Take a look as some of the bowies at <a href="http://www.knifeart.com/knifeart/bowieknives.html">KnifeArt.com
Great Thread!
Larry
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KnifeArt.com
BladeForums.com Sponsor
This is the kind of question that I like to answer. I really love bowies and specialize in bowies as a custom knife dealer.
Bowies are both beautiful and offer a very aggresive cutting tool. My perference is for hand forged custom bowies. I find that really cut the best and conform to traditional styling of the historical period. Here in Arkansas, Bowies are part of our history and heritage. Here a bowie represents both a knife and our early culture. For more <a href=http://www.knifeart.com/knifeart/arkniftradby.html">historical information.</a>
I think a good forged bowie knife easily works well as a survival knife, fighting knife, camp knife, or just a presentation item. A good forged custom bowie is also something that is passed down for generations and enjoyed for years and years.
Many bladesmiths spend a life time learning and working toward the perfect bowie knife.
Take a look as some of the bowies at <a href="http://www.knifeart.com/knifeart/bowieknives.html">KnifeArt.com
Great Thread!
Larry
------------------
KnifeArt.com
BladeForums.com Sponsor
Cobalt, I am having a hard day, I didn't mean to snap at you. I have a #12 6" Hunter's Bowie that I bought in 1961 ($25 and my parents were horrified) and a #1 7" Fighter bought in 1978. Both have blades that are 1/4' thick. Both also have full length tangs that extend through Duralumin butt caps to a nut which screws on. Mine have the leather washer hilts, for better or worse. This is the classic Randall design and it has lasted longer than I have been alive (56 years), going back to the 1930's for hunters and 1941 for fighters. Their history is quite remarkable, I think, and I love the knives even more than my Spydies. Actually, if Randall made a folder, I would try to buy one of them.
Chicahiro, you need to look at Randall's web page. The #12 covers all of their Bowies and not all are in the $400 range. My 6" Hunter's Bowie goes for $225 in its basic form as does the #1 Fighter. Both are superb knives that have stood the test of time and are, in my opinion, well worth teh price, even today.
Bruce, thanks for the info. While I have loved their knives since I was a kid of 12-13 years, I never knew the specifics. I bought that Hunter's Bowie when I was 18.
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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
Chicahiro, you need to look at Randall's web page. The #12 covers all of their Bowies and not all are in the $400 range. My 6" Hunter's Bowie goes for $225 in its basic form as does the #1 Fighter. Both are superb knives that have stood the test of time and are, in my opinion, well worth teh price, even today.
Bruce, thanks for the info. While I have loved their knives since I was a kid of 12-13 years, I never knew the specifics. I bought that Hunter's Bowie when I was 18.
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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
The Randall models with the 7/8 X 1/4" tang are the #14, #15, #16, and the #1 Special Fighter which is their non-catalog model #1 in 7" stainless with the heavy tang. The heavy tangs are set in a channel in the micarta handles and are exposed on the top and butt of the handles, very strong!
I've owned about 30 Randall's over the last ten years, sold some, given some to my children, kept some, and loved them all!
I also think their handle/tang configuration with the 1/2 X 1/4" tang extending through and threaded onto the butt cap is very strong, almost as strong as the heavy tang. Look in their catalog and on their web site at the photos of the progressive making of a Randall #1. The standard tang looks strong.
I've owned about 30 Randall's over the last ten years, sold some, given some to my children, kept some, and loved them all!
I also think their handle/tang configuration with the 1/2 X 1/4" tang extending through and threaded onto the butt cap is very strong, almost as strong as the heavy tang. Look in their catalog and on their web site at the photos of the progressive making of a Randall #1. The standard tang looks strong.
Chicahiro, take some advice from one older and wiser. When you pull a weapon in a confrontation, be prepared to use it! By pulling a weapon, you have escalated the level of violence and you MUST be ready to back that threat with use of the violence. In other words, don't pull a knife on someone unless you are fully prepared to use it! This is a cardinal rule of lethal force.
I have been worrying over your initial post for some days now and I felt the need to say this.
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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
I have been worrying over your initial post for some days now and I felt the need to say this.
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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
- Joined
- Mar 11, 1999
- Messages
- 203
I feel the Bowie knife is U.S.National Foundation legendaly balde.As England have legend of Excalibur with King Arthur,and Japan have Kusanagi means grass cutter or other name Sky cloud.
Bowie knife is not only usual knife,but also soul and symbol of America.I respect it though slaughter of natives and destruction of nature.
I feel very fan to this.
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Fuller,
Thank you very much for URL of Randall.Of course I have known it,but feel thanks bery much.It have been my bookmark.
I think that you thought I don't know about Randall Bowie knives as I said that I can't understand defference between M1 to M12.I had known desin of both knives,but could not image deffrence in work.Both looks usual fighting nice,enduring chopping wood,cutting meet sharp,dealing game,etc.Both is not seem to be specialized. M5 is so,I think.
You said that Randall is much better than ColsSteel.I want to know what a concrete quality Randall is better than ColdSteel?Tough,sharp,balance,or general?Generally speaking,Randall desain and making method is bery good I think.E.G.CS is not use seal in hilt,Randall dose so.I sealed my CS trailmaster with adhesive.
I respect your experience about it.
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Cobalt,
I can understand what you say that Rolling and forging is physically same.
And your talk about ColdSteel vs Randall is very interesting.
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bruce,
Thank you for your imfomation about Randall knives' tongue.
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KnifeArt,
I have gone your site.It is wonderful!Your words sound good,too.Thanks!
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CHic Stone
Bowie knife is not only usual knife,but also soul and symbol of America.I respect it though slaughter of natives and destruction of nature.
I feel very fan to this.
:::::::::::::::::::
Fuller,
Thank you very much for URL of Randall.Of course I have known it,but feel thanks bery much.It have been my bookmark.
I think that you thought I don't know about Randall Bowie knives as I said that I can't understand defference between M1 to M12.I had known desin of both knives,but could not image deffrence in work.Both looks usual fighting nice,enduring chopping wood,cutting meet sharp,dealing game,etc.Both is not seem to be specialized. M5 is so,I think.
You said that Randall is much better than ColsSteel.I want to know what a concrete quality Randall is better than ColdSteel?Tough,sharp,balance,or general?Generally speaking,Randall desain and making method is bery good I think.E.G.CS is not use seal in hilt,Randall dose so.I sealed my CS trailmaster with adhesive.
I respect your experience about it.
:::::::::::::::::::
Cobalt,
I can understand what you say that Rolling and forging is physically same.
And your talk about ColdSteel vs Randall is very interesting.
:::::::::::::::::::
bruce,
Thank you for your imfomation about Randall knives' tongue.
:::::::::::::::::::
KnifeArt,
I have gone your site.It is wonderful!Your words sound good,too.Thanks!
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CHic Stone
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 73,592
The Bowie knife is a symbol of the wild frontier as much as the Colt revolver and the Winchester lever-action rifle are -- maybe a better symbol; it was in use earlier than revolvers and much earlier than lever-action rifles.
Some of the Cold Steel knives are probably stronger than Randalls, but only because they're much heavier. Randalls are light and well-balanced and feel like an extension of your hand, like part of you. It's like the difference between a heavy broadsword and a good katana.
I've often heard people complain Randalls are too expensive, but the people who own them never seem to think so. All they talk about is which one should they buy next?
-Cougar Allen :{)
Some of the Cold Steel knives are probably stronger than Randalls, but only because they're much heavier. Randalls are light and well-balanced and feel like an extension of your hand, like part of you. It's like the difference between a heavy broadsword and a good katana.
I've often heard people complain Randalls are too expensive, but the people who own them never seem to think so. All they talk about is which one should they buy next?
-Cougar Allen :{)
- Joined
- Mar 11, 1999
- Messages
- 203
Fuller,
Thank you!Thank you very much for your worry.I very much appreciate your advice.
I always feel and consider about it.I know carrying weapon is illegal,takeing risk to escalate the level of violence to kill or killed as you said.
I am tlaining knife fighting hard,as always image killing.It have given me what is killing,as I hate killing much more than anyone else.I keenly realize that I must control my violence.
I will ranaway in every way,If can't,I solve trouble with money or word,even if I prostate myself and pay all maney I have,I don't use violence.But,If it is date with girl?I must not ran away.For such an emergency,I train knifefighting.
So,I don't go to the place where is dengerous as night downtown.After work,I don't go except book store,walk light safe way.I always care to prevent violence at first.
If I pull,it is with determination and skill to kill with all risk of it.But with knife,I want not to kill,bluff succeed or ran away.I never lose my temper even if killing myself.
I feel very thanks for your guidance of cardinal rule.I keenly realized it.
Sincerely,
Chicahiro Ishida.
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CHic Stone
Chicahiro, the difference is mostly in the feel. As was said, the balance, the quickness and such, but mostly, it is the edge-holding ability. I have never seen a knife that will hold an edge like my Randalls. The are hair popping sharp and seem to stay that way with minimal effort. The edge geometry also seems to work better than, say, the rolled edge on my CS Trailmaster.
As to my warning, I have met many and more young men who feel that all they have to do is to whip out a knife as in Crocodile Dundee. This is nonsense. When you escalate with a weapon, you must be prepared to use it.
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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 27 March 1999).]
As to my warning, I have met many and more young men who feel that all they have to do is to whip out a knife as in Crocodile Dundee. This is nonsense. When you escalate with a weapon, you must be prepared to use it.
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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 27 March 1999).]
- Joined
- Mar 11, 1999
- Messages
- 203
Couger,
That's right.Now maybe symble of U.S. force is F22?F117 was unbileavely fallen,it's gerat shook for me too.I think it amausing that F117's nickname is Nighthawk as Buck #650,good new bowie knife.
Your opinion about Randall vs CS is good,As you said I have'nt compale in same thicknss.
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Cobalt,
Thanks a lot,but I'm not so good at English.My TOEFL score is only 500,it is not enough to enter good university.My spelling is worse,I always use dictionary for kindergarten word.After send,I am almost always disappointed for my mistake of grammar and spell.
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Fuller,
Thanks for your kind warry.I was certainly yearn for it as you said.But I was graduated it.I always avoid to escalate weapon as possible,if can't,I have determination.
I felt Randall knife great,too.I had M5-4",was confiscated by my father who is not allow any knife even Victorinox classic and Gerber pixie.It was good knife,in kitchen and outdoor.I remain it in nice balance,sharp and tough edge,and utility design.
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CHic Stone
That's right.Now maybe symble of U.S. force is F22?F117 was unbileavely fallen,it's gerat shook for me too.I think it amausing that F117's nickname is Nighthawk as Buck #650,good new bowie knife.
Your opinion about Randall vs CS is good,As you said I have'nt compale in same thicknss.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Cobalt,
Thanks a lot,but I'm not so good at English.My TOEFL score is only 500,it is not enough to enter good university.My spelling is worse,I always use dictionary for kindergarten word.After send,I am almost always disappointed for my mistake of grammar and spell.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Fuller,
Thanks for your kind warry.I was certainly yearn for it as you said.But I was graduated it.I always avoid to escalate weapon as possible,if can't,I have determination.
I felt Randall knife great,too.I had M5-4",was confiscated by my father who is not allow any knife even Victorinox classic and Gerber pixie.It was good knife,in kitchen and outdoor.I remain it in nice balance,sharp and tough edge,and utility design.
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CHic Stone
- Joined
- Mar 31, 1999
- Messages
- 839
With all of this talk about bowies. A properly forged bowie will have standing balance. While the cold steel bowie is a good one it has no balance. For store bought knives the randall is good. However the good forged blade is remarkable as to what it will do. The ABS has some good people making good bowies.
Boy O Boy
Am I glad to see you Mr Jerry Fisk.
I have been trying to get some Bladesmith to come on this site. Pretty much all of the knife maker on this site are stock removal guys. Nothing wrong with that but I think a forged knife will beat a stock removal everytime.(assuming both are good at what they do)
I sure hope you stick around
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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341
I sure hope you stick around
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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341
Cobalt
Gold Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 1998
- Messages
- 17,261
Fuller, by the way, the Carbon V Trailmaster does not have a rolled edge. It is flat ground all the way. If you have a rolled edge, then you have the AUS-8A blade, which does not come close to the edge holding of the Carbon V Trailmaster.
I also checked out the Randal knives site and got a brochure from them. Will probably get one. The way these knives look, they should be solid and definitelly ergonomic. I think that the Trailmaster with it's 5/16 inch blade is going to be stronger overall, but the edge holding may go to the Randal.
I also checked out the Randal knives site and got a brochure from them. Will probably get one. The way these knives look, they should be solid and definitelly ergonomic. I think that the Trailmaster with it's 5/16 inch blade is going to be stronger overall, but the edge holding may go to the Randal.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 355
Fisk/Greg: If you don't mind me asking, why would a forged blade be any better that a knife made by stock removal? Assuming that both are top notch of course.
Sincerely,
Adam
Sincerely,
Adam
Mr. Ishida, I somehow neglected to drop in my thoughts and feelings on the elusive Bowie for you. My apologies.
First, let me commend you on your love of the Bowie, let it be safe to say that I understand to some degree the loss of face it may cause you in the eyes of your countrymen when they discover your training and passion for such a "barbarian's weapon." Let me thank you for your trust in such a perfect tactical tool. The Bowie is not a camp knife nor a hunting knife, though it may be used as either. The Bowie is, in its purest form, a knife built for combat of a most extreme nature.
The Bowie was designed for use as a close to medium range blade, well within the range that a sword may be used, but not so close that you could reach me with your hand. This is not a knife for standing toe to toe with someone. Combat is a fluid thing, I do not believe that anyone in this forum could deny this as a basic tenet for this discussion. The Bowie was designed to be used in a manner that produced a devastating cut instantaneously and irreparably, but also with a speed that cannot be properly perceived in time for a defense to be implemented. Most of the injury delivered with a bowie was done with what is called a back cut, a small movement done with the wrist that when it strikes, it tends to lop off whatever is in the way (fingers, the back of your hand, etc)and cause a lot of blood loss quickly.
The older men who laugh may or may not have seen it in use. If they have, they will not like its trickiness, for the bowie is a decptive weapon employing strategy and trickery, as well as a phenomenal amount of skill. I own a trail master myself and while it is a formidable tool and weapon, it is not a true bowie. A much closer approximation of a genuine bowie is any of the bowies built by Mr. Bill Bagwell of Crowville, Louisiana, USA. (bagwellknives.com) He has been forging them by hand for twenty five years and makes them only to order and only to the customer's own body specifications, such as height vs. weight, what type of frame, etc...
Mr. Bagwell is capable of making a knife that will cleave a board 2 inches thick by six inches in width in half with a single stroke, this being due to the edge geometry and sheer blade strength. This will easily cut most anything you could ask in half as well. I will let your imagination wander on that, as I do not wish to close this thread. He will also build it to move as natuarlly as a pen or pencil in your hand so you will not feel intimidated by the size of your weapon. Mine is to be ready in October and I have been waiting nearly two years for it. I do not feel as though I have set myself up for disappointment. Your laughing old men will quiver when they see how fast you can move such a large knife, and with such precision.
Also, contact Mr. James Keating of Combat Technologies, Inc. for his tapes on Bowie Technique and for seminars on proper bowie use. Mr. Keating has rediscovered the use of the bowie through painstaking research and an almost fanatical devotion to the study of edged weapons in general. He did not earn the title Master at Arms lightly.
Should a Bagwell be out of your price range, and by the sound of you it is not (love knows no boundary) please take the time to look at the following as a substitute:
1)Ontario Knife Company Marine Raider Bowie
2)Black Cloud Knives Friend
3)Randall #1 with either 7 inch or 8 inch blades
4) Randall Companion Bowie
I cannot speak from experience regarding the thorpe bowie, but I am sure it is also a good knife.
The trailmaster is a great knife for all around use, but there are better bowies out there. Many custom makers make great bowies and perhaps the TM is perfect for you. My best to you in this noble pursuit you have taken up.
Parker
First, let me commend you on your love of the Bowie, let it be safe to say that I understand to some degree the loss of face it may cause you in the eyes of your countrymen when they discover your training and passion for such a "barbarian's weapon." Let me thank you for your trust in such a perfect tactical tool. The Bowie is not a camp knife nor a hunting knife, though it may be used as either. The Bowie is, in its purest form, a knife built for combat of a most extreme nature.
The Bowie was designed for use as a close to medium range blade, well within the range that a sword may be used, but not so close that you could reach me with your hand. This is not a knife for standing toe to toe with someone. Combat is a fluid thing, I do not believe that anyone in this forum could deny this as a basic tenet for this discussion. The Bowie was designed to be used in a manner that produced a devastating cut instantaneously and irreparably, but also with a speed that cannot be properly perceived in time for a defense to be implemented. Most of the injury delivered with a bowie was done with what is called a back cut, a small movement done with the wrist that when it strikes, it tends to lop off whatever is in the way (fingers, the back of your hand, etc)and cause a lot of blood loss quickly.
The older men who laugh may or may not have seen it in use. If they have, they will not like its trickiness, for the bowie is a decptive weapon employing strategy and trickery, as well as a phenomenal amount of skill. I own a trail master myself and while it is a formidable tool and weapon, it is not a true bowie. A much closer approximation of a genuine bowie is any of the bowies built by Mr. Bill Bagwell of Crowville, Louisiana, USA. (bagwellknives.com) He has been forging them by hand for twenty five years and makes them only to order and only to the customer's own body specifications, such as height vs. weight, what type of frame, etc...
Mr. Bagwell is capable of making a knife that will cleave a board 2 inches thick by six inches in width in half with a single stroke, this being due to the edge geometry and sheer blade strength. This will easily cut most anything you could ask in half as well. I will let your imagination wander on that, as I do not wish to close this thread. He will also build it to move as natuarlly as a pen or pencil in your hand so you will not feel intimidated by the size of your weapon. Mine is to be ready in October and I have been waiting nearly two years for it. I do not feel as though I have set myself up for disappointment. Your laughing old men will quiver when they see how fast you can move such a large knife, and with such precision.
Also, contact Mr. James Keating of Combat Technologies, Inc. for his tapes on Bowie Technique and for seminars on proper bowie use. Mr. Keating has rediscovered the use of the bowie through painstaking research and an almost fanatical devotion to the study of edged weapons in general. He did not earn the title Master at Arms lightly.
Should a Bagwell be out of your price range, and by the sound of you it is not (love knows no boundary) please take the time to look at the following as a substitute:
1)Ontario Knife Company Marine Raider Bowie
2)Black Cloud Knives Friend
3)Randall #1 with either 7 inch or 8 inch blades
4) Randall Companion Bowie
I cannot speak from experience regarding the thorpe bowie, but I am sure it is also a good knife.
The trailmaster is a great knife for all around use, but there are better bowies out there. Many custom makers make great bowies and perhaps the TM is perfect for you. My best to you in this noble pursuit you have taken up.
Parker