Bowie knife

adam and greg
In my personal opinion the forged bowie is the better knife. While forging you can forge in a distal taper [from guard to point like a fishing rod] you can taper the hidden tang all sorts of things that will give a good balance in the hand.
A clubby feeling knife is just that a club. I have stock removaled a bowie that felt good, I can just do a better job of it with the forge. Once the blade is forged, then they are all stock removal.
However the edge grind is the single most important thing in relation to performance. You should be able to set up empty coke can and cut it in half with out the bottom falling over.
 
Mr. Ishida
I was raised and still live near [40 miles] from the James Black forge where Mr. Black made a knife for James Bowie to be later know as the bowie knife. I have worked in the reconstructed shop pulling the side draft bellows making a bowie knife.
The bowie was known then and now as a barbaric weapon. Many states outlawed them in the 1800's and remain so today.
The bowie knife is what caught my interest as a child of 10 and led my astray into knifemaking as a living. Though I do many other types of knives the bowie is my first love.
I have handled many different types styles and kinds of bowies including all of those in the alamo. Some bowies were designed as a hunting companion as some as a defense weapon, though all good bowies will do both.

With a good bowie you should be able to set up a empty coke can and cut it in half without the bottom falling over. You should be able to cut a piece of one inch rope in half after the rope is thrown in the air. Some cuts are made using the wedge effect of the spine. The best cuts are from the better balance and edge gemotery and steel selection.
 
Cobalt, my CS Trailmaster says Carbon V on it, so I guess that the blade is not rolled. I thought that all of the Trailmasters were.

As to the advantage of forging, I have read that it alines the molecular structure of the blade, making it stronger, and my experience says that the edge-holding is better. I cannot say why, but it seems to be.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Adam why do you think a forged blade wouldn't be better? What I am try to say is all the evidence I have is that forged blades are better. I have seen tests Ed Fowler and Wayne Goddard did where forged beat stock removal everytime. They made the knives the same size shape and heat treated them the same and always the forged came out on top.

Now I know that some will say that is not fair cause they wanted the forged to win. But I have not seen ANY test from stock removal guys. They just say it doesn't matter but no proof. Now intill I get some proof either way I am going to say forged is better.

Besides the reason stock removal guys say it does matter is because the metal is worked so good at mill. The metal is the best it will get. I can not belive this. The mills are out to make money(not a bad thing)so they are going to do as LITTLE as they can. So the profits are as high as they can be.

So like I started with If you can prove to me that forged is not better I am open. I would like to see some tests to see for sure. But that would be pretty hard to do, you would need the top stock removal guys(The ones that do there own heat treat)and the top forger to work together, and I don't see that happening.

O Well.
smile.gif


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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
Greg, given equall steel, I agree that hammer forging the blade will be better. Especially if you forge the actuall edge, and not resort to stock removal as your last step. This will give an extremely fine and tough knife edge.

But when you compare a different alloy steel to a regular forged steel, it is not just forging that makes the difference it is the alloy used in the stock removal knife. Is a forged O-1 better than a CPM-3V. I don't know but the characteristics of CPM-3V are quite promising. But for the regular steels
I totally agree. In fact you guys have sold me on a Randall, hows that. I just hate having to wait.
 
Cobalt
You are right on a couple of remarks. Some steels do not really benefit from forging. D2 for instance. I have seen no difference advantage being forged over stock removal in the test I did here in my shop. Hover with a lot of steels there is an advantage. I prefer the more simple steels that are easy for the person to maintain and easy to sharpen. When I go hunting I do not want to carry my dinner bucket just to sharpen the knife. I prefer to hit it on the stone 6 times or less and be through with sharpening. The simple steels give me this. Plus they will hold their edge well.
 
Jerry, couple of questions.

Does 440C forge well, in the sense that it gets much better than with stock removal? I have always liked this steel.

Second, I have a 1.25 inch octagonal bar that I know was made between the 1930's and 1950 sometime, but not sure. It says, "Ingersol Rand Sandvik made in Sweden". Would you have any idea of what this steel is. I was thinking of having some large blades made out of it.
 

fisk,
I remain inportance of balance.I think Randall have the best balance!
I felt my trailmaster not good balance.It center of weight is on about on blade a harf inch to hilt.
It is Good custom forger like ABS that I always yearn for,but it is not my means now.Someday I'll get it.
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Parker,
Thank you for your opinion.
I have trust for knifefighting as you said,But it is not perfect.My teacher said I may be going to give up my knive after I become realy storong.It is way of Japanese Budou which is general term of Judou,Kendou,Karate,etc.They are not killing skill now,sports and mental discipion.Of course they were battlefield killing skill in war age.When peace was come,masters turned the skill to mental discipion.Mental side is important in battle too,and after far trainig,it can stand allof violence.It is paladox,I don't understand complately.I train knifefighting as killing skill now,but I want to control my violence.

I think the Bowie knife is unspecialized primitive knife.Not civilaized tool.As so,it has many puepose and reliabe in emargncy.
I'm interested in Mr,Bugwell.Thanks a lot for his infomation.


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CHic Stone
 
after reading all these post i have to jump in here....first of all......no disrespect intended....as the rapier is to the broad sword....the loveless big bear or any other modern fighter is to a bowie...lighter quicker..just as strong and a much more agile weapon....when the bowie was devised they had SINGLE shot weapons...one shot...then the knife...read small sword came into play...such is not the case today.. one can carry a baby browning and fight off two or three knife wielding thugs, and as for the forged stock removal cold steel randall debate above...you couldnt break any of those knives with your bare hands if your life depended upon it...so why get so heated up...? the best combat weapons today are far superior to those of the alamo, as with todays knife designs.....
 
Hey Tom no disrespect back, but you compare a loveless big bear to Bowie , "as the rapier is to the broadsword" Well I have seen fights with Broadsword and a rapier, And guess what if the broadsword is used right it can win against a rapier. The early broadswords were single handed and they used a shield with it and a broadsword is not as slow as one would think combined with the better cutting and hacking it can win against a rapier.

Same as a bowie can win against a loveless big bear. The Loveless big bear is a little faster(not much with a good bowie)but it cann't cut as good. So if you are trained to use the bowie it can and will win against a Loveless big bear.

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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
Have you seen the Bowies made by Tim Potier? Talk about beautifull! Not only does he also offer Damascus, he makes them to be used.
 
Konnichiwa Chicahiro San!
The Bowie knife, in the hands of a man who knows how to use it, is a very deadly tool. It is in almost all ways superior to the style commonly called "tanto". It has VERY heavy forward balance with much more power down the length of the blade. Some of the Larger Bowies have a reach equal to a Wakizashi! The Bowie is not a thrusting weapon, it is a slashing and hacking weapon. When used according to it's design characteristics, it is one of the finest edged weapons in the world.

I have always been fond of the Randall knives, but these days, I believe the Cold Steel Trailmaster is the equal of any of the Randall knives. The TrailMaster is the equal in construction, and IMHO, better in design.
For a look at some great examples of traditional bowie design, check out www.bagwellknives.com. The website is down right now, but should be up again soon.


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I cut it, and I cut it, and it's STILL too short!

 
A question for those who know, did the original Bowies have a sharpened false edge. CS Bush Ranger seems to have half of the false edge sharpened. Are there other currently made (non-custom) Bowies with sharpened false edge? Ossi
 
Ossi
YES! The sharpened false edge is integral to the proper use of the Bowie design. IMHO, any Bowie like knife that comes with a dull false edge is NOT a Bowie. The false edge should be as sharp as the primary edge.

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I cut it, and I cut it, and it's STILL too short!

 
Colbalt
Most hex stock is water harding. It would work on some knives but I personally would not want it on a large knife.
 
Excellent bowies
I have tested many of the current mastersmiths for their cutting portion of the test to become mastersmiths with the ABS. I have vistied many of the classes held at the ABS school, being as I set up the instructors for the classes each year. I set up the cutting competetion spring and fall each ABS hammer-in. I have tested and then broke hundreds of knives in my shop. I have also made many knives for military men in several countries. As well as for collectors.
My observations--
*A knife is a tool first.
*The best knife to carry in a knife fight is a pump shotgun.
*A good bowie will amaze you for what it will cut in the hands of an experinced person.
*Because one persons bowie will or will not do something specfic doesn't mean another persons will/won't
*Quality varies as well as prices
*always ask about the handle construction and ask how long the tang is in the knife.

If you want a good bowie but cannot not afford a bowie from a high end master there are several good people making a really good custom bowie at a good price. If any of y'all are interested in a good Journeyman smith knife that I have seen his work preform I will be happy to give you a few names. I do not reccomend people lightly. Some of these boys are good now, their prices are just lower. Some of these boys are improving rapidly and are a very good value. I also can recommend some guys that are real good and prices reflect this. I buy some knives myself and am very picky.

If y'all want to know what some of the test have been in the cutting competetion I will be happy to let you know what they cut and who did well.
 
Mr. Ishida:

I sense you and I both struggle to contain more than a wee bit of anger, glad to hear you are doing well with it. Apparently Mr. Bagwell is down for the moment, but he should be up soon.

I seem to have disrespected Jerry Fisk slightly, my humblest appologies. I have no first hand experience w/ his blades, but his reputation is excellent. I did salivate over his adverts in the Fighting Knives magazine, now sadly defunct. He probably refers directly to his own wares in discussing bowie performance.

As for the Bowie being a primitive tool and weapon, perhaps, but what better for the age old chores it may be called on to perform? I was raised as a Christian, it did not take well, but I am still a fan of the old testament. Should I ever be called upon to put on my War Face, I do not want a civilized tool for an uncivilized task. As the legendary Dr. Gyi has said on many occasions, such tools and action have no place in a civilized world, but all too often these days the world is not. Train hard and rest easier, my friend.

Parker
 
While on the subject of Bowies, I have one of the Dixie Gun Works repro Searle Bowies. It seems excellently made and is sharp as the proverbial adder's fang. Does anybody know anything more of this knife. At the price, it seems a very good buy.

On another matter, some years ago there was an article in the Guns & Ammo Annual(?) on a Bowie knife that was reputed to have been taken from the Alamo by a Mexican Officer. At one point, Franklin Mint made a copy, but I was too suspicious of their quality to pay their exorbitant price. It was a very plain, straight-forward weapon with a heavy, clipped-pointed blade with file work on the spine creating teeth to catch the other man's blade. Does anyone know whether or not there is anyone making this knife, and, if so, who?

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Parker
No disrespect taken.
FullerH
That was the "Bart Moore" bowie. The only one I know of doing that bowie is a stock removal maker here in Arkansas. I can did him up and ask prices if you want.
That particluar knife as well as the "Bowie #1" and the "Carrigan" [both made by James Black] are exhibit at the ATR and Bladesmith musume in Little Rock.
 
While I prefer forged, I still LOVE Bowies, so yes, if you would. I am very interested in the historical Bowies.

Thank you,
Hugh
 
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