Brands comparable to busse

ocnLogan said:
The anecdotal or "real world" tests that others do ARE useful information, some just like to have both the "spec sheets" and the "user reviews" when they make a purchase decision (myself included). I view user reviews as very useful, and its that type of stuff that leads me to believe that Busse knives are definitely top "tier" in extreme use, without every owning/handling one. The lack of standard tests is just a bit odd. So I don't people wanting to see these tests as "naysayers" or anything else like that. In fact, I feel like wanting both is so incredibly normal that I find it odd that people are looking down at others for wanting what is publicly available for other things in the same industry.

And if it helps, I feel equality skeptical of other products that are missing user reviews, even if the specs look good. Until I hear of others using/reviewing the product, I usually take specs/advertisements with a grain of salt, but if the feedback from users, and the spec sheets/advertisements/claims seem to line up, I have a pretty high confidence that I know what I'm getting myself into, which makes me more likely to purchase.

Personally I see it like wanting to have NHTSA or IIHS crash tests and EPA fuel economy results available before you buy a new car, or CPU benchmark on the processor to help you decide if you want to buy that model in your computer, or IPX water resistance ratings and lumen output on flashlights/headlamps you're considering buying, or any other number of standards for any number of other industries/products.

Maybe its just me, but that just doesn't sound that outlandish.
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I quoted someone that stated they were a data nerd, and that's why they were pushing so hard for it in this thread.

My point was why keep "pushing hard" for it over and over and over in this thread knowing what's been posted is about all one will get.
Doing the same thing over and over won't get anyone different results, but I'm sure they'll still keep "pushing hard" in this thread anyway.
 
push it real good!!! lol in all seriousness I see both sides here. I like data and I like real world testing.. why choose between them... like women and cars.

in the case of busse you either get over that no data exists or you don't... or keep bugging jerry lol I love me some infi
 
It is odd... There is just something about Busse.
I am fairly certain, that no magic is involved, but those knives just bind you to 'em.

Last week, I was on a canoe trip with 17 other guys, and I brought a bag of knives containing a bunch of Bussekin. Plus a Fiddleback, Battle Horse and a DPX H.E.S.T.
With no worries for my knives' well being, I left my bag open for all to fondle and use. And the guys just went back and forth, picking up the blades, chopping and so forth.
Mind you, these guys are all Bushcrafters, who usually sees knives such as Busse, as pure evil!!
But several guys, admitted, that my knives were really cool, and that they really wanted one. Of course they only whispered that to me, since it would put dents in their Bushcraft image, of others heard them say so.

Busse will actually make a die hard Bushcrafter let go of his or hers Mora, and have the Bushcrafter crave a Busse.

True story!!
 
Rasmus80 said:
It is odd... There is just something about Busse.
I am fairly certain, that no magic is involved, but those knives just bind you to 'em.

Last week, I was on a canoe trip with 17 other guys, and I brought a bag of knives containing a bunch of Bussekin. Plus a Fiddleback, Battle Horse and a DPX H.E.S.T.
With no worries for my knives' well being, I left my bag open for all to fondle and use. And the guys just went back and forth, picking up the blades, chopping and so forth.
Mind you, these guys are all Bushcrafters, who usually sees knives such as Busse, as pure evil!!
But several guys, admitted, that my knives were really cool, and that they really wanted one. Of course they only whispered that to me, since it would put dents in their Bushcraft image, of others heard them say so.

Busse will actually make a die hard Bushcrafter let go of his or hers Mora, and have the Bushcrafter crave a Busse.

True story!!
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Gonna need to see the Charpy values on those die hard Bushcrafters before I believe you.
 
Ken44 said:
I quoted someone that stated they were a data nerd, and that's why they were pushing so hard for it in this thread.

My point was why keep "pushing hard" for it over and over and over in this thread knowing what's been posted is about all one will get.
Doing the same thing over and over won't get anyone different results, but I'm sure they'll still keep "pushing hard" in this thread anyway.
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Yes, because there's no chance a company owner might read and respond to consumer requests. Oh, wait...
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Yes, because there's no chance a company owner might read and respond to consumer requests. Oh, wait...
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He read. He responded, and with good replies.
I've seen him respond to his consumers request many times in his Busse forum. He is very good in that regard, and he knows what his customers want.
It does no good to keep asking over and over and over for something you're not going to get in this thread.
 
Ken44 said:
He read. He responded, and with good replies.
I've seen him respond to his consumers request many times in his Busse forum. He is very good in that regard, and he knows what his customers want.
It does no good to keep asking over and over and over for something you're not going to get in this thread.
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You may have missed my sarcasm. My point was that Mr. Busse has been quite responsive, in this thread and in his forum in general. Perhaps if there's enough consumer interest demonstrated he'll show us hard numbers. Another option is that he can tell us to stuff it, at which point I'll drop it and move on.

The other, somewhat more overarching point is that when you make claims of superiority, burden of proof is on you. If you say INFI is tougher than 3V, that's a fine claim to make, but impossible to verify without controlled, repeatable testing. Same with edge retention or even corrosion resistance. Anecdotal evidence and user experience can be very helpful in placing steels in broad categories and giving rough comparisons, but there are too many variables for that kind of evidence to be at all conclusive unless the differences are pretty major. When it's close things like inconsistencies in cutting media, skill and strength of the individualusing the knife, fatigue levels, and similar small issues start to creep in as possible difference makers.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Perhaps if there's enough consumer interest demonstrated he'll show us hard numbers.
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At the time that a business owner understands that consumers are interested in something he isn't providing, it might be too late. I used to be part owner of a small company, now I'm somebody else's employee. My partners didn't believe me when I told them we needed to change our company, now the company is gone. This might or might not ever apply to Busse but it isn't out of the question. Consumers (customers, clients) are fickle, never take them for granted.
 
Ken44 said:
He read. He responded, and with good replies.
I've seen him respond to his consumers request many times in his Busse forum. He is very good in that regard, and he knows what his customers want.
It does no good to keep asking over and over and over for something you're not going to get in this thread.
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what Insipid Moniker did here make me wanna enjoy a song one more time : let it go :D
 
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INFI is a proprietary steel with a proprietary heat treating process that is (if memory serves) around 72 hours long. That means it is, gasp, Jerry's secret. ;)

Just because a few internet cowboys request testing data from Jerry on his proprietary steel just to satisfy their curiosity, doesn't mean he has any sort of obligation to share that data. :rolleyes: And I doubt he will. That would be giving away some of the "secret". :D

But wait, there's more!!! :p If you guys are so dead-set on obtaining this test data, there IS a way! :eek: All you have to do is purchase an INFI blade of sufficient size, off of the exchange or direct from the Busse Combat factory, and have the test done yourself. :thumbup: It's not that hard, I did these tests when I was in one of my college materials classes. Most community colleges with any sort of materials program will likely have a Charpy test rig (they're nothing special), and you might not even have to pay for the test. :cool: Just need to put the correct sized notch into the steel, figure out the cross-sectional area, and then "drop the hammer" so to speak (it's usually a pendulum).

Then you'll have your precious test data, and can do whatever you want with it. Keep it secret to yourself, or, gasp, share it with the rest of the world. :thumbup: :p Put up, or shut up, as it goes. :foot:



Now, as Jerry would say,

"Let's Drink!!!" :thumbup: :D :D :D
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Why? It costs me nothing to ask and knowledge is always worth pursuing. More importantly, why does it bother you that I ask?
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And like you said, when you ask enough, Jerry is one of those who will answer. As much as I would love to see INFI's modern Charpy values because I think they would be crazy high, I would like to see SR101's numbers even more because I think they would really be surprising. The only thing I don't know is if you can actually Charpy test a differentially heat treated sample.
 
Cobalt said:
The only thing I don't know is if you can actually Charpy test a differentially heat treated sample.
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I believe you could, but depending on where the notch is relative to the DHT part of the blade, it would likely give varying results based on the cross-section tested, and how much "hard" vs. "soft" steel there was in that cross-section.
 
SpyderPhreak said:
I believe you could, but depending on where the notch is relative to the DHT part of the blade, it would likely give varying results based on the cross-section tested, and how much "hard" vs. "soft" steel there was in that cross-section.
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I would think that testing the softer side would give much higher toughness results. It would be interesting to test from both sides. Just for information.
 
Cobalt said:
I would think that testing the softer side would give much higher toughness results. It would be interesting to test from both sides. Just for information.
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It would be interesting to do that! Notching the hardened side to test more of the softer metal would definitely yield higher toughness results. I'd actually be more curious to see what the two different fractures looked like in comparison, as the crack propagation through the embrittlement zone should be a lot different between the two. :cool:
 
Yeah, I don't a test like that has been done before. IS there any production blade that is differentially HT'd besides swamp rats?

I just stripped a swamp rat SR101 blade that had been blued and used vinegar to do it. The temper line came out very clear. Very cool
 
SpyderPhreak said:
INFI is a proprietary steel with a proprietary heat treating process that is (if memory serves) around 72 hours long. That means it is, gasp, Jerry's secret. ;)

Just because a few internet cowboys request testing data from Jerry on his proprietary steel just to satisfy their curiosity, doesn't mean he has any sort of obligation to share that data. :rolleyes: And I doubt he will. That would be giving away some of the "secret". :D

But wait, there's more!!! :p If you guys are so dead-set on obtaining this test data, there IS a way! :eek: All you have to do is purchase an INFI blade of sufficient size, off of the exchange or direct from the Busse Combat factory, and have the test done yourself. :thumbup: It's not that hard, I did these tests when I was in one of my college materials classes. Most community colleges with any sort of materials program will likely have a Charpy test rig (they're nothing special), and you might not even have to pay for the test. :cool: Just need to put the correct sized notch into the steel, figure out the cross-sectional area, and then "drop the hammer" so to speak (it's usually a pendulum).

Then you'll have your precious test data, and can do whatever you want with it. Keep it secret to yourself, or, gasp, share it with the rest of the world. :thumbup: :p Put up, or shut up, as it goes. :foot:



Now, as Jerry would say,

"Let's Drink!!!" :thumbup: :D :D :D
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Yup, if he doesn't want to share it he has no obligation to at all. As I've acknowledged. Why should that stop me from asking?

And testing it would involve quite a bit more time and money than you let on. Stripping the blade, cutting an appropriately sized sample and cutting the notch, testing Rc hardness.

The reason I'm asking is that it's pretty reasonable to assume that the owner of the company has ready access to this data, as I doubt he made his reputation using steels he did not test and wasn't certain of. If he doesn't want to share it, that's fine, but if you think he doesn't have it, well, would you like to buy a bridge?
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Yup, if he doesn't want to share it he has no obligation to at all. As I've acknowledged. Why should that stop me from asking?

And testing it would involve quite a bit more time and money than you let on. Stripping the blade, cutting an appropriately sized sample and cutting the notch, testing Rc hardness.

The reason I'm asking is that it's pretty reasonable to assume that the owner of the company has ready access to this data, as I doubt he made his reputation using steels he did not test and wasn't certain of. If he doesn't want to share it, that's fine, but if you think he doesn't have it, well, would you like to buy a bridge?
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I never said you couldn't/shouldn't ask. And I'd bet he does have some of the data. But he's already responded here, and has not shared it. I'm sure he's seen the requests, and his silence IS the answer. The continued pestering is getting annoying, I'm sure.

This thread is just beating a dead horse at this point.

 
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