Brands comparable to busse

Nellem said:
Guys, this is what Lynn Thompson has to say: "Cold Steel : World's Strongest Sharpest Knives". So ... this matter has been settled. The debate is over.

LOL!
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Gotta give lynn props, he was the first to make claims. At the time he did have some great knives. And honestly his line of 1055 steel knives is super tough.
 
ocnLogan said:
It's more like people are saying it has the most horsepower, gets the best gas mileage, and tows the most weight. Then people back that up with quarter mile times, autobahn top speed and "I towed a bunch of crap with it a few times". Then the bystanders ask for dyno, fuel economy, and towing ratings numbers, and they get the same responses over again of "its fast, goes forever on a tank, and tows this here trailer".

(and yes, I realize that Lamborghinis wouldn't be used to tow anything, but I worked with the analogy that was already in use)

Charpy and catra tests are the industry standard for knife steels for a reason. A specific test for toughness, another specific test for edge retention, for the steels themselves. The other live tests mentioned a lot in this thread give some idea, but are somewhat more specific to a certain knife, as geometry, size, etc all can change how it performs.

And again, no one is claiming busse knives are bad. No one is claiming these live tests didn't happen, no one is claiming infi is bad. They're just curious if there are any "dyno" numbers behind the claims of "most horsepower", etc.

However, at this point it seems that if Jerry or another representative hasn't stepped in with results, he either doesn't have them, or doesn't want to share them (which is fine, its his prerogative if its a custom proprietary steel like it seems to be). I'd personally be inclined to believe the latter, and would also guess that at least part of the reason is that he likes the mystique / marketing around the steel.
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Well said and accurate.
 
rcb2000 said:
Sorry to ask again, but what does a charpy test reveal? Toughness? Edge holding? Lateral strength? I'll do a little reading but just curious.
This is what I couldn't find at its simplest explanation.
"The quantitative result of the impact tests the energy needed to fracture a material and can be used to measure the toughness of the material. "
So am I wrong to think that it only measures toughness of the blade but wouldn't give too much insight as to all of the other aspects such as as edge retention, wear resistance, corrosion resistance, hardness.?
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The toughness of a given alloy at a given hardness often the swinging of an impact device, at a given force with the block of material v-notched, and the force measured when it breaks and characteristics of the fracture.....very standardized. INFI hasn't been made into this block because those that perform the test don't have access to the material without the creator of the materials concent. INFI has been put to several different real world tests that prove it's toughness, but it not being part of the Charpy test is something INFI haters still have to hold onto at this point. If INFI ever does make it into this testing realm, I don't think the haters will be very pleased with the results. Either way, it would tell us very little about the worth or acclaim of Busse knives. Even something like 3V being tested at certain hardness won't tell everything about the steel's performance across different knives, and heat treatments. 2 different knives of the same geometry and hardness with different soaking, quenching, cryo...blah blah blah by different makers can behave very differently under stress. There is only one maker of INFI. I would bet that INFI hasn't been tested this way because it's a KNIFE steel, and the Charpy test is not a knife test.
 
OMG - This thread is like a train wreck!

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Czechmate said:
If it was ground like a Busse thickness wise with similar edge geometry it'd probably be just fine LOL, especially if the plate is mild steel and annealed. How does a person "drive" the knife through; with a hammer?
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Cobalt said:
Actually the tips are not thick like a tanto and actually the SHBM has a better profile for cutting that a mora and most small knives because it is 1.9" wide:

15WASPSHBM1299.jpg
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You didn't answer my question at all with regards to how the test is actually done but I do appreciate the pic of the SHBMs... :thumbup:

I'll try to find a piece of 1/2" mild steel plate and slug one of my knives through it by hand since the actual test specifics are missing.

My TGLB was very thick behind the edge in relation to it's blade thickness and overall size, as was the edge on my NMFBM, B11, two swamp rat rucki's, scrapyard scrapizashi, three son of dogfather's, dogfather, yard hook,scrapivore, two scrapyard regulators, scrapper 5, sykco 511, mud puppy two swamp rat rodent 9's, rodent solution, and ratmandu. (I think that's all that I've owned, the thin exception being a scrapyard wiener dog below that I used to own as well as two scrapyard 1311's; those have a really thin grind and edge!!!)

C360_2012-06-08-00-22-35.jpg



It is widely known that the edge geometry and blade grinds of many Busse & Kin models are quite thick and have steep edge angles. This means they can shrug off more abuse because there is more steel behind the edge. That's a fact that even you, Cobalt, cannot dispute.
 
metal0321 said:
The toughness of a given alloy at a given hardness often the swinging of an impact device, at a given force with the block of material v-notched, and the force measured when it breaks and characteristics of the fracture.....very standardized. INFI hasn't been made into this block because those that perform the test don't have access to the material without the creator of the materials concent. INFI has been put to several different real world tests that prove it's toughness, but it not being part of the Charpy test is something INFI haters still have to hold onto at this point. If INFI ever does make it into this testing realm, I don't think the haters will be very pleased with the results. Either way, it would tell us very little about the worth or acclaim of Busse knives. Even something like 3V being tested at certain hardness won't tell everything about the steel's performance across different knives, and heat treatments. 2 different knives of the same geometry and hardness with different soaking, quenching, cryo...blah blah blah by different makers can behave very differently under stress. There is only one maker of INFI. I would bet that INFI hasn't been tested this way because it's a KNIFE steel, and the Charpy test is not a knife test.
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well done metal0321:thumbup:
 
Czechmate said:
You didn't answer my question at all with regards to how the test is actually done but I do appreciate the pic of the SHBMs... :thumbup:

I'll try to find a piece of 1/2" mild steel plate and slug one of my knives through it by hand since the actual test specifics are missing.

My TGLB was very thick behind the edge in relation to it's blade thickness and overall size, as was the edge on my NMFBM, B11, two swamp rat rucki's, scrapyard scrapizashi, three son of dogfather's, dogfather, yard hook,scrapivore, two scrapyard regulators, scrapper 5, sykco 511, mud puppy two swamp rat rodent 9's, rodent solution, and ratmandu. (I think that's all that I've owned, the thin exception being a scrapyard wiener dog below that I used to own as well as two scrapyard 1311's; those have a really thin grind and edge!!!)

C360_2012-06-08-00-22-35.jpg



It is widely known that the edge geometry and blade grinds of many Busse & Kin models are quite thick and have steep edge angles. This means they can shrug off more abuse because there is more steel behind the edge. That's a fact that even you, Cobalt, cannot dispute.
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I will totally agree with the steep edge angles. But I have tips on my busses that are thinner than much of the competition. The blade profiles on most are thinner than the competition as well. The geometry of a 1/4" thick flat ground blade that is 1.9" wide is actually pretty thin.
 
One small thing I want to make clear, as it's easy for things to start feeling adversarial in threads like this, I think INFI is really good stuff, I wouldn't push so hard for test results on it if I thought it was junk, but I'm a data nerd and I want loads of info before I lay my money down.
 
Cobalt said:
I will totally agree with the steep edge angles. But I have tips on my busses that are thinner than much of the competition. The blade profiles on most are thinner than the competition as well. The geometry of a 1/4" thick flat ground blade that is 1.9" wide is actually pretty thin.
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Yes, that is definitely true and those old school Straight Handle Battle Mistresses are sweet knives.

I may need to get one of those... :thumbup:;):cool:
 
Czechmate said:
Yes, that is definitely true and those old school Straight Handle Battle Mistresses are sweet knives.

I may need to get one of those... :thumbup:;):cool:
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They come up every so often. They are solid. All of my videos above are those old school SHBM's.
 
craytab said:
It's only page 12 for me. You guys know you can change how many posts you see on a page, right?

Oh, and busse is #1!!!!!!!!
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You waited 15 years to impart this knowledge to me? Is there a secret handshake I get to learn too?
 
Insipid Moniker said:
One small thing I want to make clear, as it's easy for things to start feeling adversarial in threads like this, I think INFI is really good stuff, I wouldn't push so hard for test results on it if I thought it was junk, but I'm a data nerd and I want loads of info before I lay my money down.
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Why not get one and try it? It'll tell you more than all the chart data in the world...
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I wouldn't push so hard for test results on it if I thought it was junk, but I'm a data nerd and I want loads of info before I lay my money down.
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AntDog said:
Why not get one and try it? It'll tell you more than all the chart data in the world...
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craytab said:
And the value of such a knife would not change much during ownership. Not much risk at all.
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dingy said:
this!
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He can't. Data nerds would rather "push hard"(and often) about getting loads of paper test over actual real use test.

The "pushing hard" isn't going to get anyone more than what's been covered in this thread.
Time for those to get one and try it, or just move along, IMO.
 
Ken44 said:
He can't. Data nerds would rather "push hard"(and often) about getting loads of paper test over actual real use test.
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Yeah, ridiculous isn't it :) Because as we all know, doing charpy V notch, rockwell hardness, catra and all other metallurgical tests are soooo easy at home, all you need is a knife and about few $$$$$$ worth of equipment...
 
Ken44 said:
He can't. Data nerds would rather "push hard"(and often) about getting loads of paper test over actual real use test.

The "pushing hard" isn't going to get anyone more than what's been covered in this thread.
Time for those to get one and try it, or just move along, IMO.
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The anecdotal or "real world" tests that others do ARE useful information, some just like to have both the "spec sheets" and the "user reviews" when they make a purchase decision (myself included). I view user reviews as very useful, and its that type of stuff that leads me to believe that Busse knives are definitely top "tier" in extreme use, without every owning/handling one. The lack of standard tests is just a bit odd. So I don't people wanting to see these tests as "naysayers" or anything else like that. In fact, I feel like wanting both is so incredibly normal that I find it odd that people are looking down at others for wanting what is publicly available for other things in the same industry.

And if it helps, I feel equality skeptical of other products that are missing user reviews, even if the specs look good. Until I hear of others using/reviewing the product, I usually take specs/advertisements with a grain of salt, but if the feedback from users, and the spec sheets/advertisements/claims seem to line up, I have a pretty high confidence that I know what I'm getting myself into, which makes me more likely to purchase.

Personally I see it like wanting to have NHTSA or IIHS crash tests and EPA fuel economy results available before you buy a new car, or CPU benchmark on the processor to help you decide if you want to buy that model in your computer, or IPX water resistance ratings and lumen output on flashlights/headlamps you're considering buying, or any other number of standards for any number of other industries/products.

Maybe its just me, but that just doesn't sound that outlandish.
 
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