Brous Blades

evilgreg said:
Nice quick overview, Rat, but I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you skipped over his episodes of design theft (e.g. the Division being a clone of that one Polish designer's knife).
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Mr. EG: I believe (and please forgive me if any of what follows is based on a mistaken attribution: it's an honest mistake, and one which is facilitated by a slipping memory and lack of desire to search for a particular post in a particular thread) that you quite eloquently explained, in the General Discussion forum, all the reasons that Emerson Knives are first-rate, top-notch anthole-lickers. Soon after that, I believe that I read a post from you that was in another forum in which you admitted you were wrong in your post in General; you explained why you were wrong, and IIRC, said something about purchasing an Emmie and that it didn't have all those problems. (Again: my sincere apologies if this is not the case.)

Might I ask something of you, you who are a voice of leadership and rationality?

For the sake of newbies - a sad lot of whom I call myself one - could you cross-post your new stance to General so that we are aware of the change in reasoning which took place? Your opinion, after all, is valued by people like me who are just getting their feet wet in certain aspects of our hobby and who would in fact benefit from clear explanations. Also, this forum is fairly large (PFL), and for a newbie to become acclimated to the treasure trove of information which is just waiting to be discovered by us with bated breaths takes some time.

Again, if I am mistakenly attributing a certain intellectual position to you, please do accept my sincere apology, and take my statements as a true reflection of just how much information I am trying to digest and how much acclimatization I am working on so that I might someday engage in intelligent discourse. In my particular case, it's rather moot; but for others, it is not; today's forum newbies are tomorrow's Mr. EvilGregs.
 
RLDubbya said:
Mr. EG: I believe (and please forgive me if any of what follows is based on a mistaken attribution: it's an honest mistake, and one which is facilitated by a slipping memory and lack of desire to search for a particular post in a particular thread) that you quite eloquently explained, in the General Discussion forum, all the reasons that Emerson Knives are first-rate, top-notch anthole-lickers. Soon after that, I believe that I read a post from you that was in another forum in which you admitted you were wrong in your post in General; you explained why you were wrong, and IIRC, said something about purchasing an Emmie and that it didn't have all those problems. (Again: my sincere apologies if this is not the case.)

Might I ask something of you, you who are a voice of leadership and rationality?

For the sake of newbies - a sad lot of whom I call myself one - could you cross-post your new stance to General so that we are aware of the change in reasoning which took place? Your opinion, after all, is valued by people like me who are just getting their feet wet in certain aspects of our hobby and who would in fact benefit from clear explanations. Also, this forum is fairly large (PFL), and for a newbie to become acclimated to the treasure trove of information which is just waiting to be discovered by us with bated breaths takes some time.

Again, if I am mistakenly attributing a certain intellectual position to you, please do accept my sincere apology, and take my statements as a true reflection of just how much information I am trying to digest and how much acclimatization I am working on so that I might someday engage in intelligent discourse. In my particular case, it's rather moot; but for others, it is not; today's forum newbies are tomorrow's Mr. EvilGregs.
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I don't think you've got it quite right, RLDubbya, as that thread was a tongue-in-cheek sort of thing.

I've poked fun at Emerson knives because (in no particular order):
  • They're built with sloppy tolerances and generally poor fit and finish
  • They tend to suffer from a mixture of lockup issues (lock stick, lock engagement that goes too far, lock failure, etc.)
  • They're overpriced for the level of quality and materials used
  • Owners often seem to be tacticool couch commandos (just my opinion, from what I've observed here)
. . . and I still think the same thing about Emerson knives.

I have recently purchased a couple of Emersons again. I liked this one and posted the thread you mentioned, but that thread was full of sarcasm and silliness and qualifiers along the lines of: only a bit of lock stick, nicest Emerson I've handled, not as sucky as usual, jokes about self-maiming while cutting bananas and so forth.

Out of curiosity, what do you think I've gotten wrong about Mr. Brous exactly?
 
evilgreg said:
I don't think you've got it quite right, RLDubbya, as that thread was a tongue-in-cheek sort of thing.

I've poked fun at Emerson knives because (in no particular order):
  • They're built with sloppy tolerances and generally poor fit and finish
  • They tend to suffer from a mixture of lockup issues (lock stick, lock engagement that goes too far, lock failure, etc.)
  • They're overpriced for the level of quality and materials used
  • Owners often seem to be tacticool couch commandos (just my opinion, from what I've observed here)
. . . and I still think the same thing about Emerson knives.

I have recently purchased a couple of Emersons again. I liked this one and posted the thread you mentioned, but that thread was full of sarcasm and silliness and qualifiers along the lines of: only a bit of lock stick, nicest Emerson I've handled, not as sucky as usual, jokes about self-maiming while cutting bananas and so forth.

Out of curiosity, what do you think I've gotten wrong about Mr. Brous exactly?
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Thank you for the clarification. I don't think you have anything wrong - however, and perhaps this is a result of my limited mental faculties - I find it extremely difficult to decode conversations on this forum, yours included. You clearly had / have something against Emerson; I get part of it, but in trying to attain a thorough understanding, I fail. So I'm trying to start earlier on my understanding of your position with respect to Brous, and perhaps I can do a better job.

I'm not attempting to attack you, to attack your ego, or anything like this. I am honestly, and merely, attempting to sort this out and understand it for my own sake. I have no ego in the battle; my drawers do not pinch my privates if I am wrong. I simply wish to understand for knowledge's sake what is the case.

In short, I am trying to learn. Again, I do sincerely apologize if in my quest to learn I misread you.
 
RLDubbya said:
Thank you for the clarification. I don't think you have anything wrong - however, and perhaps this is a result of my limited mental faculties - I find it extremely difficult to decode conversations on this forum, yours included. You clearly had / have something against Emerson; I get part of it, but in trying to attain a thorough understanding, I fail. So I'm trying to start earlier on my understanding of your position with respect to Brous, and perhaps I can do a better job.

I'm not attempting to attack you, to attack your ego, or anything like this. I am honestly, and merely, attempting to sort this out and understand it for my own sake. I have no ego in the battle; my drawers do not pinch my privates if I am wrong. I simply wish to understand for knowledge's sake what is the case.

In short, I am trying to learn. Again, I do sincerely apologize if in my quest to learn I misread you.
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No apologies necessary; I was just curious if you had a different viewpoint on Brous, not trying to call you out.

I do still have two Emersons, one that I'm carrying semi-regularly. I'm having the other tuned up some to hopefully reduce the lock stick and to add custom scales. It's a mini commander and quite like the shape of it, I just wish it felt a little better put together.

I will say this, I gave Mr. Emerson a hard time when he posted his "Interview With An Industry Icon" or whatever self-promotion videos, but I came around on him personally. He took his lumps and invited his vocal detractors to stop into his shop and share a drink with him afterwards, which kind of won me over. I still think the knives could use some work, but I've definitely warmed up to Emerson the man, FWIW.
 
Frank Meyers said:
Well that's not good. Did Brous ever resolve it? Sorry to hear that.
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No. I Could never get a response to any of my inquiries about the problem. I sold the knife after sending a flattering (read:ass kissing) email to the company from a different email address and got a response in 24 hours.
 
That's just bad form. Sorry to hear that Mr. PurpleDC. Customer Service should be the cornerstone of any business, particularly small business. It's just common sense if you want your buisiness to thrive. A return email/phone call is a small courtesy that brings big rewards.
 
I purchased a couple very early versions of his fixed blade model the Silent Soldier. Both kydex sheaths had significant issues and after many many contacts (phone and email) were never resolved. That was it for me even though over the years, I have seen some Brous models I thought were interesting. I read his back story that his family had a CNC machine shop where he produced his early models but the extremely large catalog of models coming out very quickly always had me suspicious of where they were really made. Then the non-sense came out with serious proven accusations of him ripping off other makers designs.

This guy cranked out 20-40 new production models in a few years, plus always had one-off custom models available the entire time. Not impossible for someone with access to an established family machine shop. More models that Chris Reeve made in 30 years. LOL
 
As much as I like most of "his" designs, they're still overpriced. $500+ for 6AL4V Ti, Carbon Fiber, and AISI D2. Really? On top of that he puts the price so high because they're a "limited run"... Come on now. I don't care how well your Heat Treat is even at $180 (Silent Soldier Pricing IRRC) you're not getting your moneys worth. D2 isn't an impressive steel, maybe when 154CM/ATS-34 & 440C were the kings of their time but at 180 - 500 I want S35VN, 204P/M390/20CV, S90V, or S110V (or the beloved Carbon PM steels like M4, _V, Etc.) especially if you're putting Carbon Fiber and 6AL4V Titanium on a knife. Super Steels just don't "come and go" they stay for a long time and then go. S35VN is still very popular even though M390/20CV/204P have flooded the market and those three and slightly better... Hell S90V is getting popular and it's been around for 18 years (Circa 1999) and there's still nothing wrong with it in the use of folders or some applications of fixed blades. Up your materials, drop the price, and lose the ego, and then I might buy.
 
I recently purchased a Brous Mini Division CF and it's a great knife; except for one thing. That one thing that bothered me, which I noticed not many complain about, maybe I got a lemon, is the ricasso being flat. I sent my knife over to Razor Edge Knives (Josh) for a regrind and what I thought was a great deal on bladehq for $200 turned into something that is going to cost close to a Chris Reeve or Rick Hinderer. I was going to send the knife to Brous but I thought it might come back the same way. Other than that, the materials are great and I think they are worth the discount price that bladehq offers them at, not the $400 dollar price tag.
 
I really like the ones I have. Each one is a fantastic flipper, locks up very tight, perfectly centered without one single adjustment by me and they feel great in hand.
The only reason I have them is I got all of them off the Exchange. I couldn't bring myself to pay the high retail prices for D2, even though he does a good job on it, it's still D2.
I was also very impressed with the customer service I have gotten. If you need CS, do not send an e mail. I went to the web site during business hours and clicked on the live chat. Spoke with Jason, who was a pleasure, and he hooked me up right away.
I'm a knife noob and had no idea about his early history before I bought the knives.
Dealing with him now, I would say he has matured quite a bit from his Cut Throat Knives days.
Every one I have is a well built and fun knife that perform very well.
Joe
 
I have several Brous knives and have nothing but praise for the fit and finish, the visual appeal and the customer service he provides. I have a VR-71, a Sniper, Tyrant, and Vendetta and would love to get a few more. I traded for the first couple and bought the last couple outright from him (on sale) and have never paid over $150 for any of them, so I have no issue with the prices which are comparable with typical ZT and Benchmade prices. I did have an issue with the linerlock failing on the Sniper and the pocketclip being VERY tight on the Tyrant, but I sent both back and both came back fixed and quickly. In regards to his copying designs, I see nothing on the market resembling the Tyrant or Vendetta (or Raven or Hardwire orseveral other of his designs). All of his knives flip great, hold an edge and look cool as hell. I have some cool-looking knives I EDC (Benchmade 8600, Protech Godfather, ZT 0452CF, etc), but my go to edc is the Vendetta. I've traded a lot of knives but I think if I had to trade all of them, the Vendetta would be the last to go. It's just "me".
Oh, and in regards to him using outsourced parts, I thought that was the definition of a mid-tech? I've seen videos of him working the cnc machines in his shop so I know he does a lot of his own work. I don't know specifically what parts come from where, obviously, but how many parts do his knives have?
 
Have not tried the Vendetta, have a Sniper (good flipper, nice size, no issues). Will have to take a look at the Vendetta.
 
Same thing I was thinking Frank!!
Oh man.....it never stops, does it??? I'm going to check it out right now!
Joe

Frank Meyers said:
Have not tried the Vendetta, have a Sniper (good flipper, nice size, no issues). Will have to take a look at the Vendetta.
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I've been totally unaware of the Brous negative history that I've just seen in this thread. Here's the story of my mini-interaction with Brous Blades: I really like my Mini Division. It's a well made, tough, sleek looking knife that functions well & reliably in my experience with it. It was also one of the first knives I bought from a BF member on the exchange, shortly after I became a member almost three years ago. I carried it off and on for a while, used it for average EDC stuff then eventually moved on to newer toys (i.e. other knives).

Then I tried to disassemble it about a year ago for general maintenance. I could NOT get the pivot screws to release no matter what I tried. It must have been uber red loc-tited. It just wouldn't budge...but I did manage to scratch up & semi-chew up the male pivot screw pretty badly while trying to get it opened up...and added a scratch or two to the female side pivot screw too. I eventually gave up and contacted Brous Blades through their website ready to bite the bullet and pay them whatever it would cost to fix what I had screwed up...cause it's a really well made & beautifully designed knife in my opinion. I hated that I damaged the pivot screws...and STILL never got to disassemble it. So, in my utterly defeated state I reached out, explained my situation and sent it in to them with the request to replace the pivot screws & ship it back (at my expense of course) but to PLEASE leave it "un-loctited" (that's a word, right?) so I could "blue loc-tite it" and then disassemble it when I got around to it.

So...they got it apart, replaced the pivot screws, no loc-tite as requested, put a (totally unexpected) pretty decent polished edge on it and shipped it back all pretty promptly...no charge for anything. Their customer service couldn't have been better IMHO. I was pretty blown away at their responsiveness and generosity, especially since I told them I bought it on the secondary market...liked it quite a bit...and then screwed it up all by myself...no help needed to get that accomplished.

I checked out what they had done, thanked them fairly profusely and then just put the knife away and pretty much forgot about it...for a couple of years...until about a week ago. I decided to pull it out of storage & check it out again, maybe actually carry & use it for a change. Upon taking it out of storage & giving it a fresh look again, and also having evolved into an edge nut over the past year and a half or so, now armed with an Edge Pro Apex and a year and a half of fixed-angle sharpening experience, I decided that I wanted to try and redo/reprofile the edge that they did because theirs was pretty obtuse, thus a very minute secondary bevel.

I decided a while ago that I like tall, acute, flashy (to me) and uber-slicey mirror polished secondary bevels...and that this Mini Division would look better and cut better with a much more acute, mirror polished edge than the edge that Brous Blades (generously) put on it for me...assuming I didn't screw it up in the process. So last week I decided to give it a shot.

Got it taken apart with no problems, got to finally check out its internals, including its bearing system I was pretty curious about but hadn't yet seen. It's kind if a typical looking, caged, steel bearing system but larger & more robust than many of my ZT's & other knives I've disassembled, cleaned, lubed, etc. So that was nice to see...finally. Reassembled it with no problems...great tolerances...went back together tightly but relatively easily & remained dead centered, smooth, snappy action that eases closed under its own weight & rock solid with zero play, just like before I took it apart (well maybe a little smoother now)...also nice to see. Then I went to work on the edge.

That D2 was hard as hell. I've reprofiled quite a few knives over my past year+ of learning the Edge Pro...by making many of my "users" guinea pigs, to begin to learn the art of sharpening. The D2 on this Mini Division was really tough, much more so than just about any knife I've sharpened before. I'm no steel expert so my assumption is that this D2 was well heat treated and hardened to a pretty high Rockwell level. I've sharpened several other D2 knives (and other decent steels, to great super-steels) and few, maybe none...took the time or effort this one did to complete. And most of the time was spent in the very beginning step, re-profiling it from 24º down to 15º, starting with a 140 grit diamond stone MADE to hog off lots of steel fairly quickly. This one still...took a while.

In closing, I hope I haven't gotten too off the track in this thread with my wordy post. I had a very good customer service experience with Brous Blades. I really like the product(s) I own of theirs, all are well made & function beautifully. And...I thought this thread could maybe use another splash of color so I'm tossing in a photo of what this Mini Division's blade looks like now...just for the hell of it. (PS. Again, I apologize for the length of this post. Too much coffee, too late at night.) :)
Brous Mini Division mirror edge_edited-1.jpg
 
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Nice write-up Scrim. And awesome edge you put on it. I agree a few paragraphs would make it easier to read.
 
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