Buck 110 in Bos 5160

From my understanding sr101 IS 52-100 busse just does there own heat treat on it. They don't change the chemical composition. I could be wrong, though... maybe someone with more knowledge on the bussekin will chime in.

I don't disagree that heat treating 52-100 is more complicated and could also factor in but both steels being heat treated optimally for toughness I'm not convinced 5160 would best 52-100 id be interested to find out though.
Charr said:
First, SR-101 is a little modified to improve toughness from regular 52100, and both 52100 and 5160 get tougher than is realistically needed for 99% of people like I said, so realistically it comes down the the heat treat, which is more complicated in 52100 as I said.

On the last part, we agree. I don't think there was really any need to use a steel focused on toughness in the Buck 110 in the first place, but I think they did it because it would be a nice offering to people who have wanted a carbon blade on the 110 and want a good working knife.
Is it needed? Probably not. Will people care if it's needed? Again, probably not.

I think it's fine that they did it, and it's a nice thing to offer, but there is also certainly a reason it is only in a limited run...
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I've carried carbon steel folders for years (decades, actually) and never had a problem with rust. 5160 should be easier to sharpen than 420HC, and should stand up as well in daily use. Just wipe it off and dry it to keep rust at bay.
 
bodog said:
I completely disagree but to each his own. The only reason I could see using a steel like that is if they take the knife very thin and harden the steel as high as it can reasonably stand. Other than that there are other steels better than 5160, including 52100.
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I read a lot of better. I do not read how and why though.

shinyedges said:
The sr 101 (52-100) in the bussekin hawks has chopped cars in half as well as steel chains and concrete, i'd like to see some numbers on how much tougher 5160 is than 52-100, at various hardnesses.

The only thing I see 5160 having is flexibility and 52-100 as shown in swamp rat hawks has been shown flexing an incredible amount.

I agree with u on why buck is probably using 5160, cost as well as availability as they use 5160 in their fixed blades.

But how much toughness does a pinned together folder need in its steel? Probably not that much, edge retention would seem to be more important.
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I would love to see the numbers too. I looked at some knife manufacturer sites and many mention specifically 5160 is tougher than 52100.

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

5160 in a folder can see use that will chip crack and roll other steels over 5160. The edge may stay sharp slightly less time but there will be much less damage to it. A rolled edge takes more time to fix and material to remove to do it. A chipped edge can be sharpened up but there will be areas of missing edge unless a great amount of material is removed. 5160 toughness keeps that edge there much much longer. Yeah it might do a few less cuts but when you sharpen it you will still have an intact edge. That's where I see the toughness of 5160 being an advantage in a folder like a 110.

I think it's a great choice of steel for the 110. Too bad most will be bought for collecting and won't see much work, but then their 420HC does just as good for a working knife so why not just collect it. The wife knows I'm eyeing it so I might get a 110 in 5160 for the holidays. It will end up being used regularly if I do get one ;)
 
Doesn't provide any data, and I thought it was peculiar it says 154cm is the hottest steel being used right now LOL must be an old article.

Also it is missing ALOT of steels, definitely an old article, there must be actual references to impact joules that manufacturers provide now a days.
Duane Sanders said:
I read a lot of better. I do not read how and why though.



I would love to see the numbers too. I looked at some knife manufacturer sites and many mention specifically 5160 is tougher than 52100.

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

5160 in a folder can see use that will chip crack and roll other steels over 5160. The edge may stay sharp slightly less time but there will be much less damage to it. A rolled edge takes more time to fix and material to remove to do it. A chipped edge can be sharpened up but there will be areas of missing edge unless a great amount of material is removed. 5160 toughness keeps that edge there much much longer. Yeah it might do a few less cuts but when you sharpen it you will still have an intact edge. That's where I see the toughness of 5160 being an advantage in a folder like a 110.

I think it's a great choice of steel for the 110. Too bad most will be bought for collecting and won't see much work, but then their 420HC does just as good for a working knife so why not just collect it. The wife knows I'm eyeing it so I might get a 110 in 5160 for the holidays. It will end up being used regularly if I do get one ;)
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shinyedges said:
Doesn't provide any data, and I thought it was peculiar it says 154cm is the hottest steel being used right now LOL must be an old article.

Also it is missing ALOT of steels, definitely an old article, there must be actual references to impact joules that manufacturers provide now a days.
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I agree, but it also says 52100 holds a better edge and neither of us disputes that. Someone else could come along and use the no data provided point and say 5160 holds a better edge and stand on the same ground as you do.

52100 may be tough enough to cut chains and cars, but so is 5160. The difference is the edge will be a little bit less destroyed after cutting a car in half with the 52100. Both are tough enough but one is tougher and one holds a better edge.

With normal knife use you pick the one for better edge retention if that's what you need and you pick the other if you need something tougher with only slightly less edge holding.

I have an Ontario Afgan in my BOB and I tested it by hammering it into a pine tree to get some fat wood. That stuff is like epoxy impregnated wood. I got on the other side and kicked it as hard as I could. Then hammered it in down further and kicked it some more. The chunk is so big I was still making fire starter size sticks from it yesterday and there is a lot more left of it. Got a good chunk that day. I put a convex paper slicing edge on it that has a nice shiny edge and tested it by cross grain chopping and batoning. It would still do fine work after the abuse. I touched it up and put some oil on it and check the bag every three months or so. It's still paper slicing sharp waiting for a bug out. I've seen other blades snap under less abusive work. 5160 is extremely tough, especially with the Ontario mid 50s HRC. That's my limited use of the steel though. Doesn't say much to anyone other than me. I don't like the knife but it's tough, got it as a gift. I doubt I will ever use it again. At Least I hope I don't need to.
 
shinyedges said:
Doesn't provide any data, and I thought it was peculiar it says 154cm is the hottest steel being used right now LOL must be an old article.

Also it is missing ALOT of steels, definitely an old article, there must be actual references to impact joules that manufacturers provide now a days.
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Sure as hell!
 
The more I look into ABS mastersmith web sites, all of them say 5160 is tougher.

Take even that with a grain of salt and do your own research. The more you dig into it and the more you read what ABS mastersmiths have to say about both, the more you read, 5160 is tougher.

Knife users are pretty rough on their blades. The tougher the better.

I just want to know where people get 52100 is tougher commenting here.

Maybe buck uses 5160 over 52100 because their customers demand a lot from their blades. I know I do and even their 420HC is more steel than anyone will need for daily life.

I'm still interested in anyone who can do more than just say 52100 is tougher. Other than that, I'm going to go with what the ABS Mastersmiths have to say.
 
I'm in class when I get a bit more time I'll see what I come up with. But I'd wager swamp rat knives are tougher than buck knives.

Criminal Justice courses are so fun.
 
Duane Sanders said:
even their 420HC is more steel than anyone will need for daily life.
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Why give blanket statements about all knife users like this? You don't know what we all want out of our steel so don't tell us you do. It is factually just wrong....

shinyedges said:
I'm in class when I get a bit more time I'll see what I come up with. But I'd wager swamp rat knives are tougher than buck knives.

Criminal Justice courses are so fun.
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Hmmm. You might be on to something :thumbup:
 
Duane Sanders said:
The more I look into ABS mastersmith web sites, all of them say 5160 is tougher.

Take even that with a grain of salt and do your own research. The more you dig into it and the more you read what ABS mastersmiths have to say about both, the more you read, 5160 is tougher.

Knife users are pretty rough on their blades. The tougher the better.

I just want to know where people get 52100 is tougher commenting here.

Maybe buck uses 5160 over 52100 because their customers demand a lot from their blades. I know I do and even their 420HC is more steel than anyone will need for daily life.

I'm still interested in anyone who can do more than just say 52100 is tougher. Other than that, I'm going to go with what the ABS Mastersmiths have to say.
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Well I don't think anyone here said 52100 is tougher than 5160, but there is much more development in the HT for 52100 and toughness is close enough to be a wash, but edge holding 52100 is leaps ahead of 5160. But you realize that 420HC doe not come anywhere near 52100 in toughness right? You mention 5160 and 420HC like they were equals in toughness and they are not.
 
craytab said:
Why give blanket statements about all knife users like this? You don't know what we all want out of our steel so don't tell us you do. It is factually just wrong....
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I'm not making a blanket statement. At first I was just saying what I had learned long ago. After I looked into it I only confirmed what I learned long ago.

A blanket statement is something like 52100 is tougher. I read it a lot in this thread and no one could show us how.

I read on Ed Caffrey forum, an ABS Mastersmith, that 5160 is tougher. He's not the only one. I referenced several knife making books and sure as heck, they all specifically say 5160 is tougher than 52100. I even linked one of them books.

It doesn't matter who you believe or what you say, or what I believe or say. I'm just expressing my concern over the original 52100 is tougher posts. After a couple minutes of searching to confirm what I had learned years ago I found more than enough ABS Mastersmiths saying 5160 is tougher. Every book I read on the topic says the same. It's no big deal. I'm just making a point blanket statements can not be made that 52100 is tougher than 5160 when it's not true. As of now I am the only one to provide information other than what I say on the topic.

Not trying to argue with you on another topic. Just pointing out the 52100 is tougher posts are wrong. Not because I say so, but because all the ABS Mastersmiths information I have read says so. Don't take me to task about it. Email them and let them know they are wrong. I really can't help you other than asking you to contact them directly.

Have a nice evening sir.
 
Cobalt said:
Well I don't think anyone here said 52100 is tougher than 5160, but there is much more development in the HT for 52100 and toughness is close enough to be a wash, but edge holding 52100 is leaps ahead of 5160. But you realize that 420HC doe not come anywhere near 52100 in toughness right? You mention 5160 and 420HC like they were equals in toughness and they are not.
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Post number 13 said all steels they mentioned are tougher than 5160.

You do realize not most, but the extreme majority of knife people do not put knives in a vice and bend until they break. Their 420HC heat treated by Bos easily out performs "better" steels. I know because I've used many different steels and some "super" steels at the end of a demanding day will be chipped beyond acceptable. Where bucks 420HC will just be dull. Much easier to fix dull over chips. For less abrasive work in the woods their 420HC is as good as any 1095 and doing that work is as tough as 5160 is. I'm not talking about in a work shop clamped in a vice.

Bucks 5160 and 420HC sharpen at about the same rate. The 5160 takes more of a polished edge, the 420HC won't rust, 5160 is tougher in a vice. Using hands and muscle power you aren't going to break either unless there is a true defect in the steel.

It's getting off track though. What I have seen steels do next to each other using them does not matter. I took on the statement in post 13 that the steels they mentioned are all tougher than 5160. 52100 was the focus steel on what it should be so I made a direct comparison of the two. That's all. Just made my statement and even backed it up.

So now that we have determined a little further down the thread that 5160 is tougher we can focus on something like edge retention. Yes 52100 will hold a better edge. The fact is still they use 5160. Don't see what the big deal is really.
 
For some reason Duane Sanders loves anything buck does. Whether he's right or wrong doesn't matter. It's cool. He's wrong about most of what he says but he's right that 5160 is tougher than a lot of steels out there bit wrong in arguing that it's the best choice for everyone in a folder. And that 420HC is a great steel. And that buck is the best company out there. And that 52100 is outclassed by 5160 for pretty much anything. And for thinking that master bladesmiths claim that. And for pretty much everything except for the sole fact that 5160 IS a tough steel, which it is. But it's cool. He's a buck junkie like people are hinderer junkie or a ZT junkie or a spyderco junkie. Doesn't mean he's right about anything except that he likes buck. In that regard no one can say he's wrong.
 
bodog said:
For some reason Duane Sanders loves anything buck does. Whether he's right or wrong doesn't matter. It's cool. He's wrong about most of what he says but he's right that 5160 is tougher than a lot of steels out there bit wrong in arguing that it's the best choice for everyone in a folder. And that 420HC is a great steel. And that buck is the best company out there. And that 52100 is outclassed by 5160 for pretty much anything. And for thinking that master bladesmiths claim that. And for pretty much everything except for the sole fact that 5160 IS a tough steel, which it is. But it's cool. He's a buck junkie like people are hinderer junkie or a ZT junkie or a spyderco junkie. Doesn't mean he's right about anything except that he likes buck. In that regard no one can say he's wrong.
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Bloody hell bodog, we actually agree about something. Let's not make it a regular thing okay? He's also wrong when he says Benchmade told him that they were fine with Ganzo making counterfeit axis locks (different thread).

We all like what we like and there is nothing wrong with that. No need to prove to anyone why you think what you like is the bestest and greatest. Just use it and enjoy it :thumbup:
 
craytab said:
So what is this:



You are saying that all knife users would be fine with Buck's 420HC. You are shoving your opinion down all of our throats and what you are saying is not true. This makes whatever you say suspect at best.
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I did say that, very observant. What I did not say is they are the best ever and outclass everything else made.

I bet if you used Bucks Bos heat treated 420HC you would see it holds an edge as good as "better" steels and instead of chipping out like some "better" steels will it will just be dull after a long days of hard work. At Least there will be an edge to fix rather than a chipped damaged one, it's tough stuff.
 
I bought one with the oak scales. It's very nice. Every now and then I see a special 110 and I pick one up. 5160 in a production folder is very unusual so that piqued my interest. I won't use the knife enough for the steel to matter. I do think that 5160 for a folder is an odd choice. For a fixed blade it's a better choice.
 
bodog said:
For some reason Duane Sanders loves anything buck does. Whether he's right or wrong doesn't matter. It's cool. He's wrong about most of what he says but he's right that 5160 is tougher than a lot of steels out there bit wrong in arguing that it's the best choice for everyone in a folder. And that 420HC is a great steel. And that buck is the best company out there. And that 52100 is outclassed by 5160 for pretty much anything. And for thinking that master bladesmiths claim that. And for pretty much everything except for the sole fact that 5160 IS a tough steel, which it is. But it's cool. He's a buck junkie like people are hinderer junkie or a ZT junkie or a spyderco junkie. Doesn't mean he's right about anything except that he likes buck. In that regard no one can say he's wrong.
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Nope. You can also ask the ABS Mastersmiths who say 5160 is tougher than 52100 on their personal websites by pressing the contact tab and let them know. You can also write the author of knife making books that state 5160 is tougher than 52100. I'm not the one to dispute that one on.


craytab said:
Bloody hell bodog, we actually agree about something. Let's not make it a regular thing okay? He's also wrong when he says Benchmade told him that they were fine with Ganzo making counterfeit axis locks (different thread).

We all like what we like and there is nothing wrong with that. No need to prove to anyone why you think what you like is the bestest and greatest. Just use it and enjoy it :thumbup:
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On a roll tonight! Benchmade did tell me matter of factly the Ganzo version is not an infringement of their exclusive rights to use the axis lock. So I am going to ask. Did you email them yet?

I am positive if I agreed 52100 is more tough you would take to task to say otherwise. Don't know what your issue is.
 
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