Buck 110 in Bos 5160

[bodog]

Nope. You can also ask the ABS Mastersmiths who say 5160 is tougher than 52100 on their personal websites by pressing the contact tab and let them know. You can also write the author of knife making books that state 5160 is tougher than 52100. I'm not the one to dispute that one on.




On a roll tonight! Benchmade did tell me matter of factly the Ganzo version is not an infringement of their exclusive rights to use the axis lock. So I am going to ask. Did you email them yet?

I am positive if I agreed 52100 is more tough you would take to task to say otherwise. Don't know what your issue is.

Can you quote anyone that said 52100 is tougher? Someone said 3V, Vanadis 4E, and Z-wear are tougher. You took that to mean that 5160 isn't tougher than 52100.
People also said they thought 52100 would be better in a folder (their opinion for what works for them) than 5160.

I don't believe anyone said 52100 is tougher than 5160.
I don't see the connection you made.

 

[craytab]

I did say that, very observant. What I did not say is they are the best ever and outclass everything else made.

You will notice I never said you did :thumbup:

You are making things up again. Hopefully others can see what you are doing here and give you no more attention. Benchmade is fine with Ganzo ripping them off, right . And with that, I'm out. Have fun making more stuff up.

 

[Duane Sanders]

You will notice I never said you did :thumbup:

You are making things up again. Hopefully others can see what you are doing here and give you no more attention. Benchmade is fine with Ganzo ripping them off, right . And with that, I'm out. Have fun making more stuff up.

Just letting you know the difference between a blanket statement and what I actually said.

A moderator instructed you to email benchmade. Might be useful for you take their directions under advisement. You just might learn something



Bodog

Post 21 confirms what was being hinted at by the other members. They can confirm their curiosity by going to ABS Mastersmith web pages and doing a little research. They can also buy some books on knife making and read where all of them clearly, in printed material say 5160 is tougher than 52100.

If they don't agree they are free to click the contact tab. I'm not the one to voice a dispute on what's tougher. That's what I do when I want to know something for sure. I go right to the source. It works very well instead of just guessing or believing everything I read from non certified individuals or sources.

 

[Cobalt]

Post number 13 said all steels they mentioned are tougher than 5160.

You do realize not most, but the extreme majority of knife people do not put knives in a vice and bend until they break. Their 420HC heat treated by Bos easily out performs "better" steels. I know because I've used many different steels and some "super" steels at the end of a demanding day will be chipped beyond acceptable. Where bucks 420HC will just be dull. Much easier to fix dull over chips. For less abrasive work in the woods their 420HC is as good as any 1095 and doing that work is as tough as 5160 is. I'm not talking about in a work shop clamped in a vice.

Bucks 5160 and 420HC sharpen at about the same rate. The 5160 takes more of a polished edge, the 420HC won't rust, 5160 is tougher in a vice. Using hands and muscle power you aren't going to break either unless there is a true defect in the steel.

It's getting off track though. What I have seen steels do next to each other using them does not matter. I took on the statement in post 13 that the steels they mentioned are all tougher than 5160. 52100 was the focus steel on what it should be so I made a direct comparison of the two. That's all. Just made my statement and even backed it up.

So now that we have determined a little further down the thread that 5160 is tougher we can focus on something like edge retention. Yes 52100 will hold a better edge. The fact is still they use 5160. Don't see what the big deal is really.

Ok, lets clear some things up. First bending a knife in a vice is not toughness, it is lateral strength. Toughness has to do with how the steel reacts to impacts. Does it dent, does it crack, does the crack propagate into a fracture while in other steels it just gets mushed. 5160 is indeed a very tough steel and especially at the lower hardnesses it is kept at, definitely tougher than 52100. No one runs 52100 as soft as they do 5160 typically, because 52100 shines at higher Rc's where 5160 will not.

As for your comment to post 13, 52100 was not referenced, 3V was and 3V is quite likely tougher than 5160, at the higher Rc's.

5160 is a great steel for large choppers when it is kept at lower Rc's. Nepalese Khukuri's use it and their toughness is in part due to 5160, obtuse edge geometry and 1/2" thick spines. I have had choppers made of both 52100 and 5160. Neither steel ever gave me any issues but I noticed that my 52100 had a much more robust edge after chopping sessions as I did not have near the indentation that I got with 5160. The nice thing about 5160 is that it is easy to sharpen out those dings. But in a folder it is one of the last steels I would ever use. I would have chose 52100, cpm3V, and A2, all of which I consider much better steels than 5160. I love S7 as well and have big knives made of it, but I wold not want it in a folding knife and S7 is much tougher than 52100, 5160 or 3V.

 

[singularity35]

Ok, lets clear some things up. First bending a knife in a vice is not toughness, it is lateral strength. Toughness has to do with how the steel reacts to impacts. Does it dent, does it crack, does the crack propagate into a fracture while in other steels it just gets mushed. 5160 is indeed a very tough steel and especially at the lower hardnesses it is kept at, definitely tougher than 52100. No one runs 52100 as soft as they do 5160 typically, because 52100 shines at higher Rc's where 5160 will not.

As for your comment to post 13, 52100 was not referenced, 3V was and 3V is quite likely tougher than 5160, at the higher Rc's.

5160 is a great steel for large choppers when it is kept at lower Rc's. Nepalese Khukuri's use it and their toughness is in part due to 5160, obtuse edge geometry and 1/2" thick spines. I have had choppers made of both 52100 and 5160. Neither steel ever gave me any issues but I noticed that my 52100 had a much more robust edge after chopping sessions as I did not have near the indentation that I got with 5160. The nice thing about 5160 is that it is easy to sharpen out those dings. But in a folder it is one of the last steels I would ever use. I would have chose 52100, cpm3V, and A2, all of which I consider much better steels than 5160. I love S7 as well and have big knives made of it, but I wold not want it in a folding knife and S7 is much tougher than 52100, 5160 or 3V.

I would agree about 5160 and 52100. I have been using those steels for most of my life since those are the two steels that are basically the materials available here for making knives. We(our smiths) use 5160 for bolos, choppers, bigger knives, and for lower cost smaller knives. 52100 is definitely preferred in smaller knives.

 

[shinyedges]

well it looks like other members already corrected you on my post, number 13 and the steels I refrenced so ill move on from than.

You read a couple websites and your an expert, I got it.

My opinion on the toughness of both steel comes from my use, as well as makers right here on bladeforums that make everything from woods machetes (52-100) in VERY thin stock and show flex testing as well as toughness demonstrations, to making tomahawks (52-100) that chop cars in half with NO damage.

You seem to be a die hard buck guy who thinks what ever they choose is the best (your own words) well im here to tell you, that is just not true.

traditionally it is said 52-100 is better in smaller knives, but many instances right here on bladeforums show what 52-100 is capable of.

how much tougher is 5160 than 52-100? you don't know, do you? it could be marginal or it could be that the makers your referencing haven't experimented with 52-100 as some of the other makers here on bladeforums have.

Enjoy your knives

Just letting you know the difference between a blanket statement and what I actually said.

A moderator instructed you to email benchmade. Might be useful for you take their directions under advisement. You just might learn something



Bodog

Post 21 confirms what was being hinted at by the other members. They can confirm their curiosity by going to ABS Mastersmith web pages and doing a little research. They can also buy some books on knife making and read where all of them clearly, in printed material say 5160 is tougher than 52100.

If they don't agree they are free to click the contact tab. I'm not the one to voice a dispute on what's tougher. That's what I do when I want to know something for sure. I go right to the source. It works very well instead of just guessing or believing everything I read from non certified individuals or sources.

 

[shinyedges]

LOL don't leave yet I just got out of class and am now here to pitch in on ol duane

You will notice I never said you did :thumbup:

You are making things up again. Hopefully others can see what you are doing here and give you no more attention. Benchmade is fine with Ganzo ripping them off, right . And with that, I'm out. Have fun making more stuff up.

 

[Duane Sanders]

well it looks like other members already corrected you on my post, number 13 and the steels I refrenced so ill move on from than.

You read a couple websites and your an expert, I got it.

My opinion on the toughness of both steel comes from my use, as well as makers right here on bladeforums that make everything from woods machetes (52-100) in VERY thin stock and show flex testing as well as toughness demonstrations, to making tomahawks (52-100) that chop cars in half with NO damage.

You seem to be a die hard buck guy who thinks what ever they choose is the best (your own words) well im here to tell you, that is just not true.

traditionally it is said 52-100 is better in smaller knives, but many instances right here on bladeforums show what 52-100 is capable of.

how much tougher is 5160 than 52-100? you don't know, do you? it could be marginal or it could be that the makers your referencing haven't experimented with 52-100 as some of the other makers here on bladeforums have.

Enjoy your knives

Nope. Go read it again. I said I know which is tougher. I used a resource to confirm what I've always known.

I'm a buck fan who knows how to stay in my lane. They make the knives, not you, not me. I bet they know exactly why they use what they do. If your steel was that much better they would use it. If 52100 were so much better for knives then knife makers would demand more of it. It's not much different than 5160 so cost of raw materials would be pretty much identical if there was large demands for high quantities of it.

I've used both too and if both blades are unmarked and the same hardness you won't notice a difference in any characteristic doing knife stuff, not that workshop testing stuff.


I'm pretty sure no one here is more qualified than buck on what steels they should use. If they could make a better knife from 52100 they would. They recently dropped 13c26 because it does no better than their 420HC. It's pretty safe to say they know what they are doing. I'm sure their Bos 5160 does better than most assume here.

I'll send buck an email and ask them why they use what they do. Just for you. If they reply I will let you know what they say.

 

[Cobalt]

I'll send buck an email and ask them why they use what they do. Just for you. If they reply I will let you know what they say.

Right, ask them how they know the toughness of the steel except from users? Ask them to provide you a charpy number on 5160. I would love to see that.

 

[shinyedges]

ok then guy, why doesn't buck make knives from 3v and drop 5160? 3v is tougher more wear resistant has better edge stability.

how about vandis 4e?

z wear?

Ill tell you why, and its not because 5160 makes a better knife, One word COST.

so by your logic 5160 is the best steel ever because buck uses it.. yea ok dude keep thinking that. Your in for a shock.

fact is 5160 isn't the best at any one category, it isn't even best at balancing all the categories. Its available and affordable and tough. that's why they use it. Not because its best at anything.

There are steels that out perform 5160 in EVERY WAY, except the cost of raw sheets and the increased cost because of more belts being used as well as more difficult heat treating.

Nope. Go read it again. I said I know which is tougher. I used a resource to confirm what I've always known.

I'm a buck fan who knows how to stay in my lane. They make the knives, not you, not me. I bet they know exactly why they use what they do. If your steel was that much better they would use it. If 52100 were so much better for knives then knife makers would demand more of it. It's not much different than 5160 so cost of raw materials would be pretty much identical if there was large demands for high quantities of it.

I've used both too and if both blades are unmarked and the same hardness you won't notice a difference in any characteristic doing knife stuff, not that workshop testing stuff.


I'm pretty sure no one here is more qualified than buck on what steels they should use. If they could make a better knife from 52100 they would. They recently dropped 13c26 because it does no better than their 420HC. It's pretty safe to say they know what they are doing. I'm sure their Bos 5160 does better than most assume here.

I'll send buck an email and ask them why they use what they do. Just for you. If they reply I will let you know what they say.

 

[Duane Sanders]

Right, ask them how they know the toughness of the steel except from users? Ask them to provide you a charpy number on 5160. I would love to see that.

Don't worry, I just sent them an email. When they reply I will dig this thread up and post exactly what they have to say. Maybe you can ask them about them charpy numbers. If you would have said that earlier I would have asked about that too. I sent mine, you can go ahead and send them your question.

 

[Cobalt]

fact is 5160 isn't the best at any one category, it isn't even best at balancing all the categories. Its available and affordable and tough. that's why they use it. Not because its best at anything.

Another reason is that 5160 is one of those steels that it's been said you have to be an idiot to screw up the heat treat. But Ontario seems to manage screwing it up so, there goes that theory.


[video=youtube;BizW7W0sSic]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BizW7W0sSic[/video]
[video=youtube;N7dYJbR7SFo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7dYJbR7SFo[/video]

 

[Duane Sanders]

ok then guy why doesn't buck make knives from 3v and drop 5160? 3v is tougher more wear resistant has better edge stability.

how about vandis 4e?

z wear?

Ill tell you why, and its not because 5160 makes a better knife, One word COST.

so by your logic 5160 is the best steel ever because buck uses it.. yea ok dude keep thinking that. your in for shock.

fact is 5160 isn't the best at any one category, it isn't even best at balancing all the categories. Its available and affordable and tough. that's why they use it. Not because its best at anything.

We will both see what they have to say when they reply. I don't care either way. They know way more about knives and steels to use than you and I combined.

 

[shinyedges]

Another reason is that 5160 is one of those steels that it's been said you have to be an idiot to screw up the heat treat. But Ontario seems to manage screwing it up so, there goes that theory.

exactly but duane here thinks they use it because it makes the best knife and if there was a better steel they would be using it... yea ok dude

 

[shinyedges]

What are you expecting them to say? That 5160 is the best knife steel there is? LOL don't hold your breath.

We will both see what they have to say when they reply. I don't care either way. They know way more about knives and steels to use than you and I combined.

 

[craytab]

LOL don't leave yet I just got out of class and am now here to pitch in on ol duane

There is no discussion if someone will just make stuff up

 

[Duane Sanders]

What are you expecting them to say? That 5160 is the best knife steel there is? LOL don't hold your breath.

That's what you expect.

I expect them to explain in a professional manner why they use what they do. If it says they use it solely on cost, everyone will see it when I get their reply. If they say their Bos heat treat brings it a level equal to 52100 we will also see that. If they dodge the question and give a non answer answer we will also all see it, at which point you can go back to assuming you know more than they do.

 

[shinyedges]

I bet I can tell you what they will say,

something like, " 5160 is a balance of toughness and grindability and heat treating and cost. It performs well and makes it affordable"

Ask why they don't use one of the better steels and they'll ask you will you pay 300$ plus for a knife... most buck customers are not use to seeing 300-400 knife price tags

That's what you expect.

I expect them to explain in a professional manner why they use what they do. If it says they use it solely on cost, everyone will see it when I get their reply. If they say their Bos heat treat brings it a level equal to 52100 we will also see that. If they dodge the question and give a non answer answer we will also all see it, at which point you can go back to assuming you know more than they do.

 

[Navod]

I agree with Charr in that they already have the 5160 for use in the newly updated fixed blades.One of their vendors which is already selling the new fixed blades chose to special order 100 110's with charcoal diamondwood and 100 in oak.Evidentally buck figured out the best all around heat treat for their 5160 at 57-58 rockwell in the 110.I just received mine today in the charcoal diamondwood with the number 16 ingraved on the blade.I have to admit I was shocked that I could buy a custom shop buck 110 for 60.00. I am not sure how the edge retention will be compared to 420hc but i read here that it should be similar.I do believe it should sharpen up fairly easy too.I am new to this foroum but have read from it many times.It has helped me to realise how all the new steels perform and has made it easy for me to acquire some fine supersteels in folding knives.Keep the great information rolling!

 

[shinyedges]

Or someone who thinks what ever steel buck uses is best because if there was a better steel buck would use it.

There is no discussion if someone will just make stuff up