Bugging out- Urban style

I want to know What possible Major SHTF scenario could lead you to the thinking that remainin in the event area would be less difficult? Name one. While getting some items via scavanging might be easier then trying to in the wilderness, basic survival means getting out of harms way, and the city or Urban environment has hundreds of more deadly hazzards to deal with.

Rock6: One hell of a gear bag, very nice.
 
Believe me, I'd much rather GTFO of the city if possible, but having seen how quickly everything turns into a choke point here within minutes of even a minor occurrence, I know my chances of getting out aren't good. Also, once I'm "out," I'm still on a peninsula of land, and if everyone else is trying to get out, the few routes north are going to be choked anyway.

IMO it's better to ride out the initial wave in place in a well-provisioned/protected place, then egress ASAP if there's a lull or simply a good opportunity. I don't think staying in the city is "better," but in some cases it might be the best option temporarily.
 
MrCoffee said:
I want to know What possible Major SHTF scenario could lead you to the thinking that remainin in the event area would be less difficult? Name one. While getting some items via scavanging might be easier then trying to in the wilderness, basic survival means getting out of harms way, and the city or Urban environment has hundreds of more deadly hazzards to deal with.

Rock6: One hell of a gear bag, very nice.
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Hurricane, tornado, earthquake, blizzard, breakdown of authority in the aftermath of such like in Katrina.

Once the event is over, its mopping up time. The event over, its just a matter of hanging in there till things get back to semi-normal, which may take a while. Have plenty of ammo, can goods, and batteries.

While the city may have some hazzards, I can't see what is more hazzardous than picking up my family and going to a place where I am on unfamiliar ground, may not even get there because of choas on the roads, and the locals ain't about to welcome a million screamiing meme refugies to thier rural quiet paradise. Not to mention if its bad enough, there may well be martial law and every Barney Fife in a pair of cammies from the Nationa Guard units are going to shake you down for weapons and any other thing you may have that they want. There will be "check points" on the way into any rural area by the local shreriffs dept's.

The roads out of Dodge are going to be worse than staying put on home ground I know well, near large stockpiles of what will be needed. I think the idea of slinging you ruck on your back and having your AK or whatever at port arms is a paperback novel fantacy.
 
What j williams said. I would add a couple of books to read because while waiting things can get boring.


Some of the Katrina survivors were well prepared and stayed home. They avoided the massive traffic tie ups, the cars without gasoline blocking the roads, etc. Some pushed back on the roving gangs who then went elsewhere to find easy pickings.

If I remember correctly 1 bar in N.O. didn't even close. They didn't have ice for mixed drinks and served beer that was warm but they stayed open and refused to leave.
 
jackknife said:
Hurricane, tornado, earthquake, blizzard, breakdown of authority in the aftermath of such like in Katrina.

Once the event is over, its mopping up time. The event over, its just a matter of hanging in there till things get back to semi-normal, which may take a while. Have plenty of ammo, can goods, and batteries.

While the city may have some hazzards, I can't see what is more hazzardous than picking up my family and going to a place where I am on unfamiliar ground, may not even get there because of choas on the roads, and the locals ain't about to welcome a million screamiing meme refugies to thier rural quiet paradise. Not to mention if its bad enough, there may well be martial law and every Barney Fife in a pair of cammies from the Nationa Guard units are going to shake you down for weapons and any other thing you may have that they want. There will be "check points" on the way into any rural area by the local shreriffs dept's.

The roads out of Dodge are going to be worse than staying put on home ground I know well, near large stockpiles of what will be needed. I think the idea of slinging you ruck on your back and having your AK or whatever at port arms is a paperback novel fantacy.
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Did any of the people that stayed during Katrina fair better then those that got the hell out? This posting had me laughing so hard I almost fell out of my chair and my coworkers want to know what's so funny. Well all except the part about the local "Barney Fife's".... which was spoken like a true horse's ass. I have friends in both the Guard and in Local law enforcement that went to NO to help all they could, not to mention the thousands from Ares, CERT, the EMTs, the Red Cross, and more.... friend that got shot at, spit on, had sewerage throw at them, and day after day they went back to help more people. Not one of these people was there for their own personal gain, not one of them gave a damn about your firearms unless you were trying to harm others with it. I still have friends helping rebuild down there.

But your right.... those people that stayed made out so well sitting on their rooftops trying to flag down passing helicopters and boats. The 5000 in China that went back into buildings after the quake made out really well during the aftershock that killed 5000 or so more.

Sigh. I am a firm believer in Shelter in place, and I will as long as it makes sense. I also am 1) NOT in an urban area, nor ever will be, 2) have a plan and a place to go if it is dumb to stay, and 3) have a plan on how to get there, and the means to do so. Sometimes I makes sense to stay, and trust your preparations, others it mean get the hell out fast. Of course getting of the paranoid belief that the goverment has ordered a mass evacuation because it is sexy and wins vote and make them millions might be a good place to start.
 
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MrCoffee said:
Pretty intersting subject. Can someone give me a real world example of where it might be better to survive in place in a Urban environment then to bug out? I am drawing a blank. Seriously.
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For most, it may not necessarily mean that it's "better", but most likely more practical. Roads may be on lock down or backed up with traffic; no place to bug out to or simply avoiding the risk of becoming a refugee. If you're prepared, you would last much longer holed up than trying to bug out with the masses.

Of course, a hurricane, flood, fire or massive bio/chemical threat would all force you out of your home, I just think that if you're prepared and able to fortify and defend yourself...and if you keep a low profile...you would be able to outlive and out survive 90% of the immediate population.

ROCK6
 
Sharp Eye said:
ROCK6
Thanks for sharing your great kit with us. You are as always full of great practical ideas.
What are the tools that you carry?
The JB Kwik stuff is that epoxy or something else?
Any special meds in your first aid kit?
Do you include a water purifier?
Do you have an equipment list that you are willing to share?

Ira
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I have a packing list somewhere(?)...but off the top of my head:

For tools, I've tried to find an assortment that can double duty for regular stuff that comes up.
- I love fencing pliers...wire cutters, a spike for prying and a hammer face for hammering
- Kniplex 8" adjustable pliers...some of the handiest I've used
- Unique little wire cutter...fence links is about the max, but very effective
- Mini prybar
- Sawz-Awl...folding, carbide saw blade. Works on wood, plastic or metal
- I'm trying out a pry-bar knife...not sure if it will stay in the kit...?
- Safety shears...they're light and handy
- Compact ratchet set
- Mini screwdriver and hexdriver (various bit sizes)
- SAK Huntsman
- Razor blade
- P38 can opener
- U-Dig-It trowel...thinking about a lighter Fiskars synthetic one...?

Of course, I have 100mph tape (actually Gorilla tape), electrical tape and climbing tape (same as medical); Krazy Glue, JB Weld, Vaseline/Lube, stainless and copper wire; 550 cord; small sewing kit; emergency rappel rope (6mm); mini pulley, mini belay device, couple meters of shock-cord, compact digital/AM/FM/SW radio, zip ties...

Small IFAK (I need a larger one), but I also have a couple of field dressings, SAM Splint and 4 dust masks (one is a little more durable than the others), the only meds are Motrin, Benadryl, Aspirin, Imodium and Tums; Burt's Bees chapstick, hand salve and some insect repellent. I also have a good pair of leather work gloves, cravats (2), 3 large trash bags, just added a Silponcho (excellent for emergency shelter) and a space blanket; fleece watch cap and an extra set of Oakely glasses (polarized, amber and clear lenses).

I do have a MIOX water purifier, but I want to add one my water filters. A 2 Liter water bladder and a 1 quart waterbottle (usually a Nalgene as I've been using my Guyot daily at work...so two I guess:D)...included is a nesting cup. 6V Gladius LED (upgraded) light; Fenix AA LED and a AAA headlamp (yeah, too many different battery types:grumpy:), but I also have extra 3V Lithium, AA and AAA batteries. A couple of Cyalume (Chem) lights, compact Steiner binoculars; I always carry a spare watch...my G-Shock is it, good back up watch with time, countdown and alarms. Extra compass (my Suunto M9 wrist compass) and whistle.

Of course a couple of lighters, tinder, firesteel and matches. I also have a few Clif bars, instant soup, tea bags, coffee singles and a brick of Datrex rations-bars (I think they're 72 hours for a brick) that I forgot to add into the mix....can't forget the 1/2 role of TP:thumbup:

Kind of an off-the-cuff compilation, but I continue to upgrade, change or delete items as I assess the kit and where I'm located.

A few things I need to add that I just thought about...a couple of gallon Ziploc bags, inner-tubing for securing items (big rubber bands), larger FAK (I have the room) and possibly adding my Jetboil during the winter season.

Hope I was able to give out a few ideas as I have been able to get several from fellow posters here as well. Bottom line; assess your most likely threats and build you kit around that along with your own skill, experiences and/or training.

ROCK6
 
Of course, the 'authorities' can - and will - order you out of your home - and strip you of your firearms - at gunpoint. Don't think it could happen here - or wherever you are? Ask the folks in and around New Orleans.

Sure, a stockpile of ammo and firearms for home protection makes some sense - but hiding 'back-ups' in case your primaries are confiscated isn't a bad idea. And - always remember - Darwin was an optimist!

Stainz
 
It really depends on the situation. I live in earthquake country. In an earthquake, sewer lines break, gas lines brake, power lines come down, and buildings fall on people, who die and rot, making a health hazard. I think it would be safer to get to outskirts of town to wait for FEMA. There is more game to hunt while waiting.
 
In the vast majority of situations I would stay put. Why scavenge anything at all? Why go somewhere that isn't already equipped?

The only scavenging I'd be doing is in my own larder, which ought to last me for literally months!

I have a half-ton truck...there is absolutely no way I could carry all my gear and food and water in it at one time. I would guess at the bare minimum I would need a crew-cab 1 ton, which I just don't have. Barring some sort of disaster like a nuke strike (unlikely in the extreme IMO) or possibly some kind of massive fire, I can't see why I'd be better off to leave. Even if my house collapsed - it's a one-story wood structure so I don't think this is particularly realistic but let's pretend - I'd STILL be way better off to hang around and pick through the rubble for my stuff!

Name a SHTF scenario where I'd be better off to stay put? Man, name one where I'd be better off to leave! Well, I guess there are quite a few...I just don't consider them realistic concerns. The main one where I live is earthquakes, and that's a good one to just wait out while cooking food on the wood stove and playing scrabble with the gf.
 
Great topic. For me, like you said, it will greatlty depend on why I have to leave or "bug out", but I definitely wouldn't just head for the wilderness unless it were necessary. One thingis for sure. With the exception of a zombie outbreak, I would probably not be thinking of fortifying any structure and riding anything out. I would definitely constantly be on the move. Me and a friend discussed at great length the idea of picking a spot and digging in or moving around and , although I won't list why because its a huge list, it made more sense to keep moving.

Edit: That is of course, if it was necessary to leave the house, which it probably wouldn't be.
 
Bug in or bug out. It is a call you would have to make depending on the circumstances at the time. In some cases it would be a short term disaster and you may be able to ride it out. Some cases such as a flood, you would be better to leave. In some cases, the government doesn't give you a choice.
You should be prepared to go either way.
 
Stainz said:
Of course, the 'authorities' can - and will - order you out of your home - and strip you of your firearms - at gunpoint. Don't think it could happen here - or wherever you are? Ask the folks in and around New Orleans.

Sure, a stockpile of ammo and firearms for home protection makes some sense - but hiding 'back-ups' in case your primaries are confiscated isn't a bad idea. And - always remember - Darwin was an optimist!

Stainz
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They still haven't got all their guns back. Even though the NRA helped win the lawsuit you have to prove ownership before you can get them back. There will be alot of ppl with out reciepts and serial#s that have lost there property
 
This is a great and long over due thread. Depending on the situation, I would agree that staying in place would be best if allowed. The folks in New Orleans that kept the bar open and safe did so as a group with a common cause so I still think alliances with others would be necessary. You may send a group of evil people looking for easier prey, or you may inflame them with a burning desire to settle the score. Regardless, you're going to have a tough time explaining all the dead bodies in your yard when things are restored, which they will be. Having said all of that, I too keep a "bug out" bag ready all the time. It is geared to what I consider a more plausible modern urban survival situation in case I can't make it to a shelter in one hop, or make me more comfortable at the shelter, or keep me and the mutt comfy and well fed on the rooftop for 4 days while we try to flag down passing helicopters. Some pack items: 2 pairs jeans, socks, underwear, and pocket t-shirts for 4 days, 200 rnds of .22 ammo (if I decide to grab a firearm, the ammo will be there), 3 liter water bladder, $400.00 cash in 20s,10s,&5s, carton of cigarettes (rotated weekly), lighter fluid, flints, 10 Hormel Entrees, cereal bars, jerky, Peak 1 stove with full fuel tank, instant coffee, Tang (yeeecchh! but serves it's purpose), first aid kit, and other stuff.

I just don't see a long term, total break down of society nuclear war me against the entire rest of the world situation happening in my life time. If it does, you can call me a sucker, laugh at my dead body, and help yourself to my Tang and cereal bars.
 
I totally agree that survival in place is one of the better options, no doubt, but there are times were it ISNT an option. Sometimes events are far too powerful. While I am set up to survive in place for a while, weeks to months if need be, I am also prepared to cut and run.

Someone asked for an example of a scenario where staying is a bad idea. Ok. A few years back a small stream locally got dammed up by tree limbs and such. Nothing too exciting, the stream was 5 to 20ft across, maybe 6-10" deep. With the spring melt and run off, the pressure behind the dam grew and grew til it broke, then it ripped thru our area, making a new path 250ft wide, and at some places 20ft deep. When it did, it took a bridge that is less then a mile from my house, and two other bridges, a gas station complete with 2 full 10,000 gallon tanks (that ended up several miles downstream), and several houses. Several major roads were wiped out, one of which is still being repaired (This happened in 2005). Their werent a lot of deaths, but those who DID die, had been ordered to evacuate, and they refused, deciding to ride it out instead. In comparision to Katrina, our flood barely made the news, but it was a eye opener to me. No matter how much ammo you have, there are forces that you can not withstand.

There are times when survival in place means you dont survive.
 
My question is, If one was given a "heads up" warning, Like a possible nulear attack or alien invasion(like in Independence Day).
Should you evac, or stay put. Because if you evac, along with EVERYONE ELSE, There will be Grid lock on all the roads leaving the city, you'll be in the middle of it,,,,and EXPOSED!!
Maybe it might be wiser to "ride it out". At least you know your survival potential of where you live/work. And the logistics of that same area(s).
 
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