Wanna go halfers?
It's all cool.... after TEOTWAKI, you can be the Chieftan of Queensborough, and we can have trade pow-wows! Maybe we can set up some kind of settlement at the vacant Canfor site near my place on your side of the river. Haha.
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Bugging out- Urban style
- Thread starter forcedestrike
- Start date
Wanna go halfers?
It's all cool.... after TEOTWAKI, you can be the Chieftan of Queensborough, and we can have trade pow-wows! Maybe we can set up some kind of settlement at the vacant Canfor site near my place on your side of the river. Haha.
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LOL!!! Fuck that, after the world ends I'm setting up shop in West Van!
In all seriousness some guys have been talking about this a bit...I can think of three to five guys who have approached me about maybe doing a joint buy of rural land in BC. Of course it's BC so who knows what they meant by "joint buy."
In all seriousness some guys have been talking about this a bit...I can think of three to five guys who have approached me about maybe doing a joint buy of rural land in BC. Of course it's BC so who knows what they meant by "joint buy."
That's pretty funny. New West group buy! I can ask our Hungarian friend, Mr. Z! And no grow op, except for letting the brush grow back over the bunker hatches, lol.
In all seriousness, without a boat no-one as deep into the Vancouver area as we are is getting out in anything with 4 wheels, and I'm not about to go Keyser Soze and discard the family, so I will be sheltering in place as long as I[we] can. If I ever get my dual-sport running again, it would make great local transport in any kind of post-disaster environment, so I wouldn't be confined to the immediate area. I could go full-on "I am Legend" in-town foraging.
In all seriousness, without a boat no-one as deep into the Vancouver area as we are is getting out in anything with 4 wheels, and I'm not about to go Keyser Soze and discard the family, so I will be sheltering in place as long as I[we] can. If I ever get my dual-sport running again, it would make great local transport in any kind of post-disaster environment, so I wouldn't be confined to the immediate area. I could go full-on "I am Legend" in-town foraging.
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Yeah, Z is one of the guys I think would be interested and is also one of the guys I would be interested in having around!
You know who else might be up for it is Jim who owns Canadian Gun Slingers...he has a big survival thing going on but doesn't own property yet...
You know who else might be up for it is Jim who owns Canadian Gun Slingers...he has a big survival thing going on but doesn't own property yet...
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Man, I'll tell you he sure did good on my truck...had funny computer issues and wouldn't run...that guy knows vehicles! And I speak as a former mechanic (in fact specifically transmissions!)
I would opt for happy over scared...I save "scared" for thinking about the actual cost of BC real estate, and the fact that we would probably need a half a dozen guys just to own some within six hours' drive of the black hole!
I would opt for happy over scared...I save "scared" for thinking about the actual cost of BC real estate, and the fact that we would probably need a half a dozen guys just to own some within six hours' drive of the black hole!
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okay, maybe I'm missing something here. But I don't- boat or land- think of needing a piece of land with a paper that says it is mine.
bugging oout- which I personally believe is a better option that waiting for the armed raiders to start coming around (in or out of uniform) comes in two basic scenarios- both really bad ones.
In one, things get better in a bit, in which case living on a boat or out of a tent for a few months is... something I've done. With kids. Since I *don't* intend to go with nothing more than a knife and recreate a discovery channel show, I'm okay with that.
In the other, title means nada, because whatever authority there is is broken indefinitely.
I live on the west coast. There's more public than private land out here- from alaska to san diego. Sure, I'd be happy if I owned 6 acres on anacortes or something, but anchoring out near the parks isn't going to do me any more or less harm than anchoring off "my" woods.
There's a huge reliance here on owning land outside the city. I've spent a fair amount of time out in the wilds and never on a bit I owned.....
bugging oout- which I personally believe is a better option that waiting for the armed raiders to start coming around (in or out of uniform) comes in two basic scenarios- both really bad ones.
In one, things get better in a bit, in which case living on a boat or out of a tent for a few months is... something I've done. With kids. Since I *don't* intend to go with nothing more than a knife and recreate a discovery channel show, I'm okay with that.
In the other, title means nada, because whatever authority there is is broken indefinitely.
I live on the west coast. There's more public than private land out here- from alaska to san diego. Sure, I'd be happy if I owned 6 acres on anacortes or something, but anchoring out near the parks isn't going to do me any more or less harm than anchoring off "my" woods.
There's a huge reliance here on owning land outside the city. I've spent a fair amount of time out in the wilds and never on a bit I owned.....
I'm sorry, but all the guys with their little bail out kits or whatever the hell you call them will be the first to die. The guys that need all those little trinkets to survive, just won't.
The other day I saw a man who was arrested for trespassing on railroad property. He was a 50 year old rail tramp. The guy has been everywhere in the US, and beyond with minimal equipment. He's been surviving with practically nothing for over 30 years. The guy had a sleeping bag, frying pan, GI flashlight, bed roll, and a Bucklite. That dude has lived in cities, woods, deserts, swamps, and just about every shithole you can imagine. He's fed himself by eating from dumpsters, and picking up shit that people through in trash cans. He's been a victim of attack for no good reason.
The Sucret can survival kit, bug out kit whatever the fuck is a joke. If for example the guy that I mentioned wanted your shit he would simply take it from you and you wouldn't/couldn't do shit.
All this silliness reminds of the 130lb. guys you run into at the gym. They can tell you about calories, and supplements, and what exercise is the best for what, and how your body reacts to this , and that,but they're built like 11 year old girls.
The other day I saw a man who was arrested for trespassing on railroad property. He was a 50 year old rail tramp. The guy has been everywhere in the US, and beyond with minimal equipment. He's been surviving with practically nothing for over 30 years. The guy had a sleeping bag, frying pan, GI flashlight, bed roll, and a Bucklite. That dude has lived in cities, woods, deserts, swamps, and just about every shithole you can imagine. He's fed himself by eating from dumpsters, and picking up shit that people through in trash cans. He's been a victim of attack for no good reason.
The Sucret can survival kit, bug out kit whatever the fuck is a joke. If for example the guy that I mentioned wanted your shit he would simply take it from you and you wouldn't/couldn't do shit.
All this silliness reminds of the 130lb. guys you run into at the gym. They can tell you about calories, and supplements, and what exercise is the best for what, and how your body reacts to this , and that,but they're built like 11 year old girls.
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Same here. However, in my experience, if you want to live for a few months on public land, you will need to regularly resupply. I guess you could stockpile a boat with a few hundred pounds of food and gear...but unless you absolutely had to, why?
In my case, I have a one-story wood structure that in all likelihood will survive even extreme earthquakes...and failing that, both of my sisters have similar places here in town. I have enough gear and supplies to sink a twenty foot boat. Why take some of it and go somewhere where I don't know the place as well, don't have the neighbours I'm friends with, don't have family, and instead leave everybody behind and hope that the bush is a better situation?
Far easier for me, at least, is to relax where I am in my well-defended house, with my (literally) tons of gear, and wait things out.
The only scenario I personally plan for is one in which regular society DOES eventually go on...I don't mind if that takes a few weeks, or months. I have plenty of supplies. If you think you're better off bailing out of wherever you are, well hey, go crazy. But rather than prep extensively for that, I've prepped extensively for staying put and I think that's a more practical option for most people.
As far as the homeless guy eating out of garbage cans...if he wants my altoids tin he can have it. I think all the contents are worth less than I make in an hour. And if he's eating out of dumpsters, he's just as dependent on society to keep on running for his meals as I am for mine!
But if you think that most guys who plan to bug out plan to do it with an altoids tin, I think you've been talking to the wrong people. Most survivalists consider the altoids tin to be more of a sudden wilderness stranding kit, in my experience. People who seriously plan to bug out have a location picked out and geared up, so that they can go there and weather out a storm.
Long term survival planning is not about what you can carry on your back. It's about setting yourself up for a major social and economic disruption. Critical things to do aren't "buy a Busse" or "learn to fight" or even "identify plants." If you are SERIOUS about survivalism, the thing to be doing is planning your financial future so that, barring sudden catastrophic collapse in the next few years (you can judge for yourself how likely this is but I vote not particularly) you can own a good piece of property, maybe get into a line of work that is generally recession-proof, or run a business that doesn't depend heavily on things working perfectly to keep on going. If you are a computer guy, broaden your skills to include telephone and radio systems, for instance. If you are a mechanic, learn to weld and machine your own parts. Because the realistic survival scenario we might actually face is a gradual decline in individual purchasing power, and the possibility that labour once again becomes cheaper than technology. If that happens, everyone will be better off that is prepared not just by owning cool gear, but by having invested well, and planned for a changing economy. My personal goal is to set up a hobby ranch for myself over the next ten years, so that if the quality of life declines sharply in the cities, I can retreat to my ranch and leave city life behind entirely while ramping up my ranching.
Unless, of course, you like the whole "eating out of dumpsters" thing. I am not a huge fan myself.
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Long term survival planning is absolutely NOT about what you can carry in a pack- I agree. It's also, honestly, not about caching huge amounts of dry goods.
I want to point out a few things that have come up in the thread before I get back to the non-landowner bugout philosophy.
One is that it has been pointed out that with all the ready made kits and TV shows, a lot of people will bug out if the excrement get aerosolized. Maybe- I'm of two minds on that, but assuming it is true- another person has pointed out that WITH training and a kit, two weeks out if a rough experience. Combine, add water and you don't seem to have to worry excessively about overpopulated wilderness as much as you might think.
Oh, there are bound to be differences in different areas- I live in northern california and realize that our population density is really fairly low, all things considered. We have a lot of public lands, rivers, watersheds, and areas that historically have had very high population carrying capacities in hunter-gatherer terms.
Back to land ownership- There are definitely advantages to having a parcel and some cached supplies and kit. I am not saying anything against that, and I'd love to have it. Of course, I'd try to move out onto it, since I'm not "required" to live in an urban area.
But owning land is not, by my lights, a requirement for bugging out.
Specifically relating to boats- you'd be surprised at what it takes to sink a cal 20. And what you can fit in one. I wouldn't count on more than a few weeks of completely isolated eating without any foraging (fishing, seaweed, berries, etc) for a family, but they've been used more than once for ocean crossings and I do know positively that a month of food and water for 2 can be pretty easily stored. On an Islander 30 Mk2 deep keel 2 months of emergency food for a family along with daily living supplies/larder and a 4 gallon/day watermaker is easy, you still have tons of living room. I miss that rig.
Anchoring is a fine activity, you simply don't have to have somewhere specific to *go* in a boat. Food gathering could be a worry, but it's really not so different from food gathering in any other conext. I'll get to that.
But boats require a major shift in thinking.
back to the land based bugging out. Again, public land, or whatever- the main arguments against using public land (in the right scenario) are the "need for resupply" and "you can only carry so much in a pack".
To cover the second ever so briefly- our cooperative and family bug out systems involve a lot of homesteading gear. The idea isn't to eat MREs until they are gone and then try and figure it out- it's to start foraging and building immediately. That doesn't mean we ditch with no food, but it does shift the thinking.
The first- the need for resupply- I find to be a spurious argument in my region. With even a basic knowledge of edibles through northern CA you should be fine. And we *do* it- we forage native and non native species constantly. (yes, sustainably, too)
I guess one of the most important things here is to gauge the level of bugging out- a localized flood isn't EOTWAWKI, for example.
I want to point out a few things that have come up in the thread before I get back to the non-landowner bugout philosophy.
One is that it has been pointed out that with all the ready made kits and TV shows, a lot of people will bug out if the excrement get aerosolized. Maybe- I'm of two minds on that, but assuming it is true- another person has pointed out that WITH training and a kit, two weeks out if a rough experience. Combine, add water and you don't seem to have to worry excessively about overpopulated wilderness as much as you might think.
Oh, there are bound to be differences in different areas- I live in northern california and realize that our population density is really fairly low, all things considered. We have a lot of public lands, rivers, watersheds, and areas that historically have had very high population carrying capacities in hunter-gatherer terms.
Back to land ownership- There are definitely advantages to having a parcel and some cached supplies and kit. I am not saying anything against that, and I'd love to have it. Of course, I'd try to move out onto it, since I'm not "required" to live in an urban area.
But owning land is not, by my lights, a requirement for bugging out.
Specifically relating to boats- you'd be surprised at what it takes to sink a cal 20. And what you can fit in one. I wouldn't count on more than a few weeks of completely isolated eating without any foraging (fishing, seaweed, berries, etc) for a family, but they've been used more than once for ocean crossings and I do know positively that a month of food and water for 2 can be pretty easily stored. On an Islander 30 Mk2 deep keel 2 months of emergency food for a family along with daily living supplies/larder and a 4 gallon/day watermaker is easy, you still have tons of living room. I miss that rig.
Anchoring is a fine activity, you simply don't have to have somewhere specific to *go* in a boat. Food gathering could be a worry, but it's really not so different from food gathering in any other conext. I'll get to that.
But boats require a major shift in thinking.
back to the land based bugging out. Again, public land, or whatever- the main arguments against using public land (in the right scenario) are the "need for resupply" and "you can only carry so much in a pack".
To cover the second ever so briefly- our cooperative and family bug out systems involve a lot of homesteading gear. The idea isn't to eat MREs until they are gone and then try and figure it out- it's to start foraging and building immediately. That doesn't mean we ditch with no food, but it does shift the thinking.
The first- the need for resupply- I find to be a spurious argument in my region. With even a basic knowledge of edibles through northern CA you should be fine. And we *do* it- we forage native and non native species constantly. (yes, sustainably, too)
I guess one of the most important things here is to gauge the level of bugging out- a localized flood isn't EOTWAWKI, for example.