Bugging out- Urban style

My family and I have an alternate location about 2 hours away from where we live. We keep our RV stored there and it is stocked up for a reasonable stay.

We keep stores at home and rotate them out to keep everything wholesome. We both work locally, a process that took some time and sacrifice financially but are never more than a few minutes away from home or our son's school.

A couple years ago, we had a big windstorm that knocked out power to our town for 6 days in December. We live in a cul-de-sac and know all our neighbors. Everone pitched in and when the freezers started to thaw, we parted out the goods and everyone ate well for several days using the December temps to keep things cool.

We live close to the Interstate so we can get out of Dodge and to our RV if needed.

Both vehicles are alwyas kept at least 1/2 full and carry seasonal kits along with clothes, food, water, tools etc. Since we both work close to home, (I walk or bike to work) our gas consumption is very low.

Having the flexibility to stay or go is an important option. We also have a support system that we can count on at either location.
 
That is definitely the ideal situation...my family has property I could bug out to if I had to but I would definitely prefer to stay put if possible...there are very few hazards I am personally exposed to that would cause me to bug out though. Unless you count zombies. (I do.)
 
BIG-TARGET NJ said:
My question is, If one was given a "heads up" warning, Like a possible nulear attack or alien invasion(like in Independence Day).
Should you evac, or stay put. Because if you evac, along with EVERYONE ELSE, There will be Grid lock on all the roads leaving the city, you'll be in the middle of it,,,,and EXPOSED!!
Maybe it might be wiser to "ride it out". At least you know your survival potential of where you live/work. And the logistics of that same area(s).
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As close as I live to Barksdale AFB, I'm pretty sure there would be a cluster of nukes heading my way. With 20-30 minutes warning I'm not likely to get far enough, fast enough and it's not likely anyone will be getting my Tang and cereal bars.
 
misanthropist said:
That is definitely the ideal situation...my family has property I could bug out to if I had to but I would definitely prefer to stay put if possible...there are very few hazards I am personally exposed to that would cause me to bug out though. Unless you count zombies. (I do.)
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I normally would agree, but the ones that hit home to me were:

1) Mt. St.Helens' eruption (WA)
2) Local flooding (WA)
3) Forest fire (WA)
4) Hurricane (NC)
5) Chemical explosion/spill at a nearby plant (GA)
6) Severe gas link in a military housing community (GA)

The forest fire did threaten us to leave the area as did the severe gas link when I was in GA. The Chemical spill was pretty scary and we were on alert. We were foreced to depart the area within 30 minutes with the gas leak...that was an eye-opener; we planned to just go to dinner and get a motel, but they fixed it later that night.

I know most locations have their own "threats" just know which is the worst and plan as best as you can...bottom line: at least have a back up or bug-out plan for the worst case scenario.

ROCK6
 
MrCoffee said:
... Can someone give me a real world example of where it might be better to survive in place in a Urban environment then to bug out? I am drawing a blank. Seriously.
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i think the hoards of brain eating zombies that inhabit most big cities after a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI event would make you yearn for the trees and mountainsides of the country. its a well known fact that zombies stay in a city till all the regular people have been proccessed, then they start movin out lookin for more. having such poor survival skills, they rarely make it past 3-4 days without running into a group of well armed anti-zombie militia .

this might sound as funny as i meant it, however, cities such as NOLA, can have roving gangs or mobs looting, burning, killing and worse. the idea of bugging out of urban areas is to get away from areas that are overpopulated so you do not fall victim to these forces.

in order to thwart these roving bands you would have to all agree to retreat to one peice of property, it may not be yours. then you would need to set a parimiter far enough away from the main shelter that thrown or proppelled molitovs or bombs could reach the main house/shelter. --- Eric
 
It depends what type of disaster it is but the main risk of urban environments are disease due to the masses of unhealthy people congested together with drainage and sewers not working properly etc.

For the record the first thing I'd do in a serious apocolyptic type scenario is get together with my mates. I've got a good size group of friends I've known since I was in primary school who are like family. A group of trustworthy mates is something you can't put a price on.

I also often day dream about bugging out into the wilderness but am well aware it's a lot harder than you think and I'd be hungry most of the time.
 
ROCK6 said:
I normally would agree, but the ones that hit home to me were:

1) Mt. St.Helens' eruption (WA)
2) Local flooding (WA)
3) Forest fire (WA)
4) Hurricane (NC)
5) Chemical explosion/spill at a nearby plant (GA)
6) Severe gas link in a military housing community (GA)

The forest fire did threaten us to leave the area as did the severe gas link when I was in GA. The Chemical spill was pretty scary and we were on alert. We were foreced to depart the area within 30 minutes with the gas leak...that was an eye-opener; we planned to just go to dinner and get a motel, but they fixed it later that night.

I know most locations have their own "threats" just know which is the worst and plan as best as you can...bottom line: at least have a back up or bug-out plan for the worst case scenario.

ROCK6
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Well, tough to argue with any of those!
Definiely all get-out-of-dodge situations. I'm sure everyone wold agree that the mani thing is to understand the risks you are most likely to face and prepare accordingly!
 
misanthropist said:
Well, tough to argue with any of those!
Definiely all get-out-of-dodge situations. I'm sure everyone wold agree that the mani thing is to understand the risks you are most likely to face and prepare accordingly!
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And one of the sorts of things it's most important to consider are those that involve the NON-OCCURRENCE of the NON-NATURAL things you take for granted.

Example: I live (and work) in a big metro area in a desert. The nearest reliable natural water source is maybe 20 miles away. The air temperature in the shade around here can get to 122 degrees Fahrenheit (50 degrees centigrade) in the summer (and the temperature on the ground, or in a car, can get much higher.)

That means that I have to make SHTF-type preparations for even such almost-non-events as the power goes out for a long period of time, shutting off the water pumps at the city water works.

Another example: a couple of years ago it turned out that ALL of the gasoline/petrol in our area came to town via one or two 8-inch underground pipes. When it turned out there was a leak, the gasoline supply to this urban area with millions of inhabitants was shut down. There were gas lines around the clock, with several stations shutting down, for days. I ran to the store shortly after the news hit, and bought the last two large gasoline cans in that Wal-Mart. Glad I did--and I kicked myself for not thinking of that sooner.
 
IMHO part of buging out preperation is a good plan with plenty of recon and research . A retreat or at least an area or two picked out and geocached with some long term assets.
The problem as I see it with staying in an urban inviroment is the long term issues ie; food and water shortages, gangs, well meaning but totally FUBAR goverment intrusion like moving people into camps and disarming them confiscating resources and conscripting people.
 
I think you need to break out your plans into levels. There is get out now, there is get out but I have a certain amount of time, there is shelter in place. Get out now scenarios need to be dealt with practically. Do you have a bag packed with clothes, some water, food, supplies and some cash ready to go? I have time: this is the toughest because it takes planning, and the self awareness to implement the plan without panicking. Plan where to go, what is reasonable to carry, do I have the gas to survive a long trip, in traffic, to get there? Am I allowed to have weapons where I am going? Do I want to risk going there (shelters, etc). Sheltering in place requires supplies and careful thought. Should I stay, when will help come, what are the dangers and costs, will my family be safe? Ideally I would want to stay put or execute a short evac to a trusted friend or relatives house, where resources can be shared, etc. Food, Clothes, Water, Tools, Weapons, Ammunition - these are all heavy and limited resources. They can be awkward to carry, move conceal. If you take them and have to leave them, there is a cost. Weapons may be difficult to carry, conceal, and in the end could be confiscated. All of these things factor in to what you do, but you all know that. I don't want to have to bug out to the woods, because that SEVERELY limits what I can do and bring. I will tell you this, anyone rucking out with their AK47 is going to be dealt with at best roughly, and at worst SEVERELY. I have friends who were shot at in NOLA for trying to cross a bridge to safety, and they were UNARMED aid workers. They swear it was locals trying to keep them out. It truly is not something that can be dealt with in a simple forum thread, and we have certainly beaten these topics to death. The only certainty is that there will be danger of some sort, and you will have real tough choices to deal with. Planning and preparation will give you options, but no necessarily make the decisions easier.
 
Return of the J.D. said:
And one of the sorts of things it's most important to consider are those that involve the NON-OCCURRENCE of the NON-NATURAL things you take for granted.

Example: I live (and work) in a big metro area in a desert. The nearest reliable natural water source is maybe 20 miles away. The air temperature in the shade around here can get to 122 degrees Fahrenheit (50 degrees centigrade) in the summer (and the temperature on the ground, or in a car, can get much higher.)

That means that I have to make SHTF-type preparations for even such almost-non-events as the power goes out for a long period of time, shutting off the water pumps at the city water works.

Another example: a couple of years ago it turned out that ALL of the gasoline/petrol in our area came to town via one or two 8-inch underground pipes. When it turned out there was a leak, the gasoline supply to this urban area with millions of inhabitants was shut down. There were gas lines around the clock, with several stations shutting down, for days. I ran to the store shortly after the news hit, and bought the last two large gasoline cans in that Wal-Mart. Glad I did--and I kicked myself for not thinking of that sooner.
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Boy, that's interesting...it's funny because living where I do there are very few concerns like this. I live just outside of Vancouver, BC, and our situation is so different. We are in a super temperate location, can't hardly run out of water if we try, lots of locally grown food etc...

I guess this is why my approach is primarily to shelter in place. Other than running away from zombies there is practically no advantage to me if I go elsewhere...in fact anywhere I go would probably be less safe!

It doesn't often occur to me that there are a lot of cities built in places that would, in the absence of modern technology, be harshly inhospitable! But of course they put a city in Las Vegas, so I guess you can put one anywhere, as long as the fuel supply doesn't run out.

I also gathered (from the ultra-reliable information source "Chinatown" with Jack Nicholson) that LA would revert back in to a desert if it weren't for human intervention. Well, I guess "revert back in to a desert" is not the right term...maybe "turn from a horrible barren desert into a beautiful xeric wilderness" is more correct.
 
It doesn't help that Misanthropist and the rest of us Vancouverites are all trapped on 2 [some would say 3] sides geographically. To the north, we have short but rugged mountains, to the west we have the ocean, and to the south is a lot-less-friendly-than-it-used-to-be border. :p East is the only practical direction to leave the city... one direction. That's it. Unless you have a dual-sport motorcycle (I do, but I have a toddler too, so we stay put), you're going to end up staying whether you like it or not, possibly on a highway in your vehicle if you were silly enough to try and leave.
 
I've put pictures of my daily carry kit up in the past, minus the all important fencing pliers (GREAT to see someone else carries some)-

gear is gear, we could all go on for years with what to bring and what not to bring.

I have a family- really, and extended family. So my bugout plans are done in a few ways- there's me, alone. I hate the possibility, but it is possible. There's my "core" family- wife and two kids and maybe the one other. Then there's the group- Jess (wife), Leif and Astrid (kids), Sierra, Blanche and Jeff and their two kids. And last there's the community- as I know some other people around who have similar ideas about going and convoying, or freeholding at the Domes on campus or in the putah watershed.

I'm going on the record stating that I think cities are death traps. I'll stay for a few days in the "right" kind of emergency, like the winter storms and 3 day power outage. We had gas from the mains, supplies, propane, a month of food. no sweat. Worse than that... I'd have to see. VERY situational.

HOW we go is very important. "we" in various configurations have plans for going on foot (3 miles and we're in protected ag waterways), on bicycle, and by car. Car plans mostly involve switching to bikes. Bikes are wonderful, as you can use a LOT of secondary and non traditional paths to move around. We have canals, levees, fire and utility paths. Some of those are accessible easily by car, most aren't. (easily meaning not having to get out heavy metal cutting tools or lift cars over 2 foot curbs)

Since my children are young (almost 5 and almost 2) I can't rely on them carrying much- but they don't add a lot to a bike trailer load.

Since a large focus is on group efforts or extended "homestead" style bugging out, we have a set of graded bugout kits that cover basic field survival all the way to setting up a forge and cabin building. A lot of our focus is on durability and rapairability, not lightness and wonder-materials.

The original post included a focus on hunting. We have guns, and bows, and even sligshots- but hunting isn't expected to bring the bulk of our food. We're ALL experienced urban and local wilderness foragers. We do it for fun, for future need, and to reduce our food bills in the household. There's an AMAZING amount of stuff out here. getting it requires little more than being willing to go out with buckets and bikes. While a lot of it is seasonal, many items keep well or are easily preserved.

Our general plan is to get north, and into the foothills to the west. The north california coast is the least likely to be completely overrun if the cities empty out- that or if we can drive just enough, the eastern sierra.

But sticking around.... a localized event maybe- a national or global event, no way in hell. Not here.
 
Clead said:
It doesn't help that Misanthropist and the rest of us Vancouverites are all trapped on 2 [some would say 3] sides geographically. To the north, we have short but rugged mountains, to the west we have the ocean, and to the south is a lot-less-friendly-than-it-used-to-be border. :p East is the only practical direction to leave the city... one direction. That's it. Unless you have a dual-sport motorcycle (I do, but I have a toddler too, so we stay put), you're going to end up staying whether you like it or not, possibly on a highway in your vehicle if you were silly enough to try and leave.
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Dude- get a small boat, learn it, love it. you are in the ONLY really good area on the west coast to cruise hundreds of miles in semi protected waters. We've lived and cruised with a baby, and it's not a bad way to go. (The unmentioned part of my previous post is that we also have 3 boat construction projects under our belts collectively and would be fine with going on the water if the population pressure wasn't killing the delta)
 
I've never thought of that. I'll have to consider it. :) I guess you still need a place to go though even if you have water transport, and our cheque-to-cheque current living style is not conducive to a lot of large scale preps, like a "retreat"! How small are you talking about? Car-topper? 17-foot cabin cruiser?
I guess the big plus is that I have the Urban Survival Vehicle/Boat Carrier already.. :D:D:D:D
paj4.jpg
 
koyote said:
Dude- get a small boat, learn it, love it. you are in the ONLY really good area on the west coast to cruise hundreds of miles in semi protected waters. We've lived and cruised with a baby, and it's not a bad way to go. (The unmentioned part of my previous post is that we also have 3 boat construction projects under our belts collectively and would be fine with going on the water if the population pressure wasn't killing the delta)
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I have kicked this idea around a bit...I spent a lot of time on the water off Vancouver Island growing up and have built one sailboat before. But you still need somewhere to go and frankly there still aren't a whole lot of likely scenarios here in which I think you'd be better off heading off to the bush...and the one really likely scenario will in all likelihood result in tsunamis!
 
??

from vancouver? you've got easy sailing from south of seattle to alaska, moderat coastal sailing down to bandon, OR.

For reference, we paid $4000 for a 30 foot deep keel sailing vessel, put about $500 and a few months of off and on labor into her, had $80 a month slip fees and freely anchored out around.

for survival in a river watershed and protected coast you could pull it off "backpacker" style in a cal20 with a family of 3 if you had to. but you'd be sleeping on deck and pitching a tent off your sail boom. (which is fine. cal 20s are as easy to sail as 8 foot dinghies and really hard to sink or turtle.)

I definitely think of a fixed keel, 4 to 5 foot draft Islander or somesuch when I think of the vancouver area- there's a LOT of safe semi-protected waters in reach. In the river watersheds I'd go for a swing keel or a shallow draft (2 to 3 foot) canal-boat or river schooner type of rig. easy to build and tow, too.

For cartopping, you are stuck with not a lot more than canoes or pirogues. Which can be ocean going, but won't be comfortable doing so, mostly.

at a minimum, if I was going to stay on it for any length of time (meaning more than one night once a month) with more than 2 people, I'd want a sailing rig with a cabin, not less than 25 feet, preferably something like an islander 30 (dirt cheap, very good hulls, easy to fix up)

but a cal 25 is trailerable and launchable by one or two people off a ramp.
 
misanthropist said:
I have kicked this idea around a bit...I spent a lot of time on the water off Vancouver Island growing up and have built one sailboat before. But you still need somewhere to go and frankly there still aren't a whole lot of likely scenarios here in which I think you'd be better off heading off to the bush...and the one really likely scenario will in all likelihood result in tsunamis!
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Yeah, that's the key point...if you don't have a place to go, make bugging out your last option. Once you leave your home or whatever place you've stocked and have some defendable preparations, you become a much easier target and worst case, a refugee! Going solo is a little easier, but still consider how much gear could you realistically live off of from your back (pack), truck, car or bike? Double or triple that with a family. Sure, stay put as long as you can; if you have a decent location to retreat to, get out as soon as you can...regardless of your plans, always have a worst case scenario plan where you have to grab your bag (same with spouse and kids), maybe a few tuff-boxes of essential gear (if going by vehicle) and head out the door in 10-15 minutes. I'm not there right now and I need to get our backpacks (mostly packed for backpacking), restocked and packed. This is no different than my job...sure I have a couple of tuff-boxes of deployment goodies for longer trips, but I also have a ruck (plus a couple of duffle bags depending on the mission and time-frame to get out the door) that is ready to grab and go...96-hours wheels up for our mission requirements. I can live out of my ruck for a few days before my tummy get's rumbly and I get a little thirsty. For many, having a "get-home" bag is more of an issue as you need to get back to your bastian of safety. Just don't discount the worst case scenario.

ROCK6
 
koyote said:
??

from vancouver? you've got easy sailing from south of seattle to alaska, moderat coastal sailing down to bandon, OR.
For reference, we paid $4000 for a 30 foot deep keel sailing vessel, put about $500 and a few months of off and on labor into her, had $80 a month slip fees and freely anchored out around.

for survival in a river watershed and protected coast you could pull it off "backpacker" style in a cal20 with a family of 3 if you had to. but you'd be sleeping on deck and pitching a tent off your sail boom. (which is fine. cal 20s are as easy to sail as 8 foot dinghies and really hard to sink or turtle.)

I definitely think of a fixed keel, 4 to 5 foot draft Islander or somesuch when I think of the vancouver area- there's a LOT of safe semi-protected waters in reach. In the river watersheds I'd go for a swing keel or a shallow draft (2 to 3 foot) canal-boat or river schooner type of rig. easy to build and tow, too.

For cartopping, you are stuck with not a lot more than canoes or pirogues. Which can be ocean going, but won't be comfortable doing so, mostly.

at a minimum, if I was going to stay on it for any length of time (meaning more than one night once a month) with more than 2 people, I'd want a sailing rig with a cabin, not less than 25 feet, preferably something like an islander 30 (dirt cheap, very good hulls, easy to fix up)

but a cal 25 is trailerable and launchable by one or two people off a ramp.
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True...however in none of those places have I got a stocked and equipped house to go to! There are basically two options I can think of...go to a different city and spend money to live in a hotel, or hang around in the bush and that's hard living if you ask me...and I have done a lot of that!

So yes, there are lots of places to go, but none that I think would be automatically better than where I'm at in the vast majority of situations...and there are still tsunami effects to deal with, as the only probable "Evac" scenario for Vancouverites is a massive quake. That is not the time to be heading to water if you ask me!

Of course there is also the moorage crunch in Vancouver, but that is less of a survival issue and more of a money issue...docking a 30 foot boat around here will most likely cost you in the $250-300/month range. But the main problem is that I just don't have the money to own property on one of the islands, or up the coast at this time.
 
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