Busse Knives (INFI Steel): Is It Worth The Price?

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jdm61 said:
Paul Bos and Peters can apparently get it done right and that is with using the simpler standard high temperature tempering method instead of the crazy complicated low temp process like Roman Landes talks about. 3V apparently requires that whatever austenizing temp you chose be DEAD on, but other than that, it actually seems simpler to HT than some stuff like Elmax that require even higher temps.
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If you can make the same Thread» about Bark River fans? Then I will tell ya whats wrong with your formula...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...sse-fans-really-that-retarded?highlight=Busse
 
Not trying to insult the faithful here (really), but most of the Busse knives I have encountered both in person and on the internet have only 'performed' by posing for photos or 'performed' as investments. I strongly suspect that most Busse knives that are sold are luxury purchases, personal indulgences or otherwise items of some personal significance. I used my first one but all the others never saw the light of day until they were sold.

I sure see a lot of photos of Busse knives with pristine coatings that have clearly spent all their time inside someone's gun safe. I know the guys who have used them hard say they are the bee's knees, but if I were to hazard a guess of the percentage of Busse's production that has ever cut anything more demanding than a sheet of paper I would say it's 10% or less. Do a scan of the exchange looking for users vs. new and I think what you find will support my contention. I compare them to uncirculated gold coins--they were purchased as investments, not to spend.

If I had to go survive in the jungle of Costa Rica for a month I would absolutely take my Busse, but if I hike the AT or anywhere else relatively near civilization for a couple of weeks I will take one of my much less expensive fixed blades. Why ruin the resale value unless you really need that last bit of performance to save your life? If I could only have one fixed blade for the rest of my life it would probably be a 3-5 inch Busse of some sort, but since I can have as many different knives as I want I think I will!

Like I said this isn't a knock on Busse: their performance lives up to their considerable reputation. But they are way on the upper end of the price/performance curve where every tiny increase in performance comes at a significant increase in cost. 90% of what you'll ever need to do with a knife can be done without compromise using a $10 Mora. The question is how much are you willing to spend to be able to do the last 1%?
 
If you can break either a Busse or Fherman blade you either got a bad HT, or are Superman. I have had personal experience with the Busses tube fasteners literally bending, causing the handle to shift a little on two models. I wish they still offered screwed handles, I would buy another in a heartbeat. Busse took care of me though, with a new blade, then I sold it in the exchange about 6-7 years ago. They told me, even Jerry himself, that tube fasteners are stronger. But I don't buy it.
 
elkins45 said:
They are great knives, but they are way past the optimum point on the price/performance curve. IMO they aren't worth the price, and I say this after having owned and subsequently sold 4-5 of them.

I'm 100% there will be scores of owners who disagree with me.
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I should believe more, the first or second philosophical twisted post:jerkit:
 
CPM 3v won't outperform INFI in toughness. I wish knifetests.com was still running. No steel came close in toughness, no where close, except for Sr77 (jack hammer steel) from the same company (Scrapyard is a Busse family company).
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Close? Busse states that S7 is tougher and more shock resistant than the steel they refer to as Infi. No great surprise there.

I like the steel they refer to as" Infi" though I'm down to one knife now. I prefer 3V, and in some cases L6/15N20 . When heat treated just right 3V gets to be so sharp that just touching the skin causes it to begin to slide in as if there's no resistance. Not all 3V's have given me that performance but some have. SR101, Infi, and , and L6, not so much, but they are no slouches.

I do think Busse knives are overpriced and their sales model depends on some kind of mystical quality that users seem to think busse knives have. They make some ungodly ugly and impractical knives IMO and people knock grandma down to buy them. No, there is no steel called infi, SR101, or SR7. The fact that they play these marketing games like Cold steel did with Carbon V should tell you something. The heat treat is competent but so was Cold Steels Carbon V Camillus made knives.

So, I like the knives, don't have a lot of respect for the company.

Joe

I do really like the 52100 knives from scrapyard especially when run at higher hardness's in the rc 62 range.
 
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The Mastiff said:
Close? Busse states that S7 is tougher and more shock resistant than the steel they refer to as Infi. No great surprise there.

I like the steel they refer to as" Infi" though I'm down to one knife now. I prefer 3V, and in some cases L6/15N20 . When heat treated just right 3V gets to be so sharp that just touching the skin causes it to begin to slide in as if there's no resistance. Not all 3V's have given me that performance but some have. 3V, and L6, not so much, but they are no slouches.

I do think Busse knives are overpriced and their sales model depends on some kind of mystical quality that users seem to think busse knives have. They make some ungodly ugly and impractical knives IMO and people knock grandma down to buy them. No, there is no steel called infi, SR101, or SR7. The fact that they play these marketing games like Cold steel did with Carbon V should tell you something. The heat treat is competent but so was Cold Steels Carbon V Camillus made knives.

So, I like the knives, don't have a lot of respect for the company.

Joe

I do really like the 52100 knives from scrapyard especially when run at higher hardness's in the rc 62 range.
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INFI is a custom steel as in the formula (Alloy Percentages) was developed by Busse and the steel company he gets it from and only Busse really knows what they are.
 
INFI is a custom steel as in the formula (Alloy Percentages) was developed by Busse and the steel company he gets it from and only Busse really knows what they are.
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Sure, I believe that.SR101 and SR77 are custom steels too right? Or is it a custom name? It's a commonly known thing in the industry just as Carbon V was. Most of the industry folks just don't want the trouble of dealing with the phone call with threats of legal problems busse is well known for. I've talked to some about that. There is NO steel called Infi any more than there was a carbon V. Tweaking a heat isn't a problem if you buy the whole thing, or share it with someone as Case and camillus did what was called Carbon V. A heat is typically 80-100,000 lbs. Heck, we've all seen posted different compositions from people who had it analyzed.

You know there is a latrobe in his town right? Tweaking the composition of a standard steel and creating a new one are two different animals. It wouldn't be cost effective to create a new steel just for a knife company, and a small one at that.
 
The Mastiff said:
You know there is a latrobe in his town right? Tweaking the composition of a standard steel and creating a new one are two different animals. It wouldn't be cost effective to create a new steel just for a knife company, and a small one at that.
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That's exactly what Busse did, created a new one.

SR101 is 52100

SR77 is SR7

INFI is a Custom steel from the ground up.
 
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komondor said:
3V is a powder steel and my understanding is that it will not hold up to either shock or lateral stress nearly as well as INFI.
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1V is a powder steel, and it is almost as tough as S7 at the same hardness http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/prodbyapp/tooldie/cpm1vt.html

3V might take a bit more to bend it (lateral strength), but it will break much easier once flexed past a certain point (less toughness).
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That isn't toughness, though it is still a way to measure strength. And the geometry of the steel pieces more heavily determines how much it takes to bend and break...

Bigfattyt said:
CPM 3v won't outperform INFI in toughness. I wish knifetests.com was still running. No steel came close in toughness, no where close, except for Sr77 (jack hammer steel) from the same company (Scrapyard is a Busse family company).
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Which is why knifetests did nothing to compare steels, only knives of particular designs. But 3V did make it through the whole test in the Dan Keffeler custom, like the INFI FFBM (but not all INFI did) and S7 in the Scrapper 6. Fine company, except the Cold Steel Kukri machete also completed the test.

I have a couple major expenses spooling up, but then I will look into breaking some INFI on a Charpy tester to see how it actually measures by an industry standard.
 
elkins45 said:
Not trying to insult the faithful here (really), but most of the Busse knives I have encountered both in person and on the internet have only 'performed' by posing for photos or 'performed' as investments. I strongly suspect that most Busse knives that are sold are luxury purchases, personal indulgences or otherwise items of some personal significance. I used my first one but all the others never saw the light of day until they were sold.

I sure see a lot of photos of Busse knives with pristine coatings that have clearly spent all their time inside someone's gun safe. I know the guys who have used them hard say they are the bee's knees, but if I were to hazard a guess of the percentage of Busse's production that has ever cut anything more demanding than a sheet of paper I would say it's 10% or less. Do a scan of the exchange looking for users vs. new and I think what you find will support my contention. I compare them to uncirculated gold coins--they were purchased as investments, not to spend.

If I had to go survive in the jungle of Costa Rica for a month I would absolutely take my Busse, but if I hike the AT or anywhere else relatively near civilization for a couple of weeks I will take one of my much less expensive fixed blades. Why ruin the resale value unless you really need that last bit of performance to save your life? If I could only have one fixed blade for the rest of my life it would probably be a 3-5 inch Busse of some sort, but since I can have as many different knives as I want I think I will!

Like I said this isn't a knock on Busse: their performance lives up to their considerable reputation. But they are way on the upper end of the price/performance curve where every tiny increase in performance comes at a significant increase in cost. 90% of what you'll ever need to do with a knife can be done without compromise using a $10 Mora. The question is how much are you willing to spend to be able to do the last 1%?
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I totally agree with what you're saying. I bought my Busse because It looks beautiful, and I wanted a beater fixed knife that would last me until I die.

The Minute I got mine I took down a few smallish trees in my backyard that has been blocking my view for some time.

These knives used and beat up look just as good as the safe queens. :)
 
Well, at this point there's no way to create a new steel without being able to call it a 'mod' of something since there's so many alloys already. Heck, look at S90V, Crucible still refers to it as AISI 420 modified with high vanadium. 420 looks nothing like S90V even without the vanadium. 15 times the carbon and the addition of moly, plus a huge amount of vanadium is quite a 'mod'.
 
The price is steep but its like anything else that is at the top of the heap; There is a lot that is true as far as hype goes and a small amount of larger than life aura that is tied into the name. My recommendation: if you want a knife that is ahead of all others on the market (not necessarily lightyears ahead but always IMHO at least slightly ahead) then go for a Busse, buy one and don't look back until you give it a chance. Use it alongside another more common good/great blade steel (cpms30v, 154cm, etc.) then draw your own conclusion and decide whether its "worth it."
 
elkins45 said:
Not trying to insult the faithful here (really), but most of the Busse knives I have encountered both in person and on the internet have only 'performed' by posing for photos or 'performed' as investments. I strongly suspect that most Busse knives that are sold are luxury purchases, personal indulgences or otherwise items of some personal significance. I used my first one but all the others never saw the light of day until they were sold.

I sure see a lot of photos of Busse knives with pristine coatings that have clearly spent all their time inside someone's gun safe. I know the guys who have used them hard say they are the bee's knees, but if I were to hazard a guess of the percentage of Busse's production that has ever cut anything more demanding than a sheet of paper I would say it's 10% or less. Do a scan of the exchange looking for users vs. new and I think what you find will support my contention. I compare them to uncirculated gold coins--they were purchased as investments, not to spend.

If I had to go survive in the jungle of Costa Rica for a month I would absolutely take my Busse, but if I hike the AT or anywhere else relatively near civilization for a couple of weeks I will take one of my much less expensive fixed blades. Why ruin the resale value unless you really need that last bit of performance to save your life? If I could only have one fixed blade for the rest of my life it would probably be a 3-5 inch Busse of some sort, but since I can have as many different knives as I want I think I will!

Like I said this isn't a knock on Busse: their performance lives up to their considerable reputation. But they are way on the upper end of the price/performance curve where every tiny increase in performance comes at a significant increase in cost. 90% of what you'll ever need to do with a knife can be done without compromise using a $10 Mora. The question is how much are you willing to spend to be able to do the last 1%?
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Does that surprise you? Look at some of the pictures that get posted on the Busse forum from get togethers of the Busse fanboys. Many of them would get winded from walking across a parking lot to a buffet restaurant.
 
hardheart said:
Well, at this point there's no way to create a new steel without being able to call it a 'mod' of something since there's so many alloys already. Heck, look at S90V, Crucible still refers to it as AISI 420 modified with high vanadium. 420 looks nothing like S90V even without the vanadium. 15 times the carbon and the addition of moly, plus a huge amount of vanadium is quite a 'mod'.
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That really wouldn't be a mod though.

Like if Crucible added 9% Vanadium to CPM 154 that wouldn't be a CPM 154 Mod, that would be a new steel.
 
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For me, not worth it.

I think you'll find that you won't be able to break a leaf spring either.
Put an edge on it, and you'll have essentially an unbreakable knife, which might be susceptible to edge damage.
And it sure won't cost $500.
At this point, Busse is a collector market, with prices being set by collectors, not users.
 
twl said:
For me, not worth it.

I think you'll find that you won't be able to break a leaf spring either.
Put an edge on it, and you'll have essentially an unbreakable knife, which might be susceptible to edge damage.
And it sure won't cost $500.
At this point, Busse is a collector market, with prices being set by collectors, not users.
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Leaf Springs are 5160 for the most part and yes it can be broken just like any steel can.

No such thing as an unbreakable knife....

Some might take more effort to break than others, but they all will break in the end.
 
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