Busse knives really worth the bux ?

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I have never understood the need for little knives like the Steel Heart:D

As for INFI, you won't find a steel that has the highest combination of wear resistance, shock resistance, and lateral strength than INFI. It just does not exist. SR101 is not even close. Neither is SR77, which may be almost as tough(but not as tough belive it or not) and can bend as far, maybe even farther, but has no where near the wear resistance or lateral strength.


If you think your knife can, then do these throwing tests thousands of times to your hard use knife:
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/?action=view&current=117_1779.flv
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/?action=view&current=117_1780.flv


Then chop your hard use knife like this and twist the edge out of the wood by torquing it out sideways, do this repeatedly, daily. See how fast you leave divits in the wood and half dime size chunks of steel out of your blade.

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/?action=view&current=CHOPPINGandTHROWING034.flv


then take your hard use blade and throw it into the wood stump so it's tip sticks in 1.5-2 inches and proceed to wiggle it out with lateral movements to see if you leave the tip in the wood at some point. The wood stump has lots of pieces of knives that failed.

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/?action=view&current=CHOPPINGandTHROWING033.flv

Then do all that repeatedly every year for over 10 years and include the chopping of 4 cords of wood. And I am just one of many who have repeatedly used these knives harder than anything else. It is still the best all around steel there is. There are some very great steels that will do all that needs to be done and I have no doubt Fehrman will get you through anything you need to do, so will Scrapyard and Swamprat and ESEE knives sound like they are great for the money. No denying any of these will get you through anything and if you do your part there truly is no need for anything better than these. And I would feel perfectly fine with any of them. Busse is just at the top of the heap. Even with some of the worst factory edges I have seen in a knife. But also some of the best factory edges I have seen as well. If you know how to sharpen or know someone that does, you can turn a busse into a razor easily.

But I do agree that for little knives it is overkill. Although, no one has ever died from overkill.
 
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Lycosa said:
Do you^ own a smaller Busse knife.
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I do not personally own one no, but a co worker let me take his Boss Street on a weekend camping trip and while it was a fine knife I found the edge to be a bit to thick for me. I am sure this can be thinned out to help in that area, but this is just my experience with the only smaller Busse I have used I would like to try a BAD one day I think that would be a very nice little knife. I still think there are better steels for smaller blades where I would like more edge holding than I would toughness, M390 or ELMAX come to mind.

I would like to say that I am in no way talking down INFI. I think it is by far the best big blade steel there is as well as the best all around steel, im just saying that my personal tastes find other steels to be better in smaller knives.
 
sodak said:
Lot's of us remember the test. Here is another one, not at a BLADE show, but he claims the world record, and so far, I don't see anyone challenging him.

http://boyeknives.com/about.cfm

I will say, however, don't hang your hat on one test. While INFI did well, I would put a LARGE sum of money that high hardness CPM 10V could probably add a zero behind whatever score INFI makes. Check out Ankerson's testing thread of steels. Nobody's hating INFI, but just not buying edge holding hype. It all comes down to hardness and carbides. Steel is steel, except of course, when it comes to Rostafrei! :D
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I think the REX-121 (at 68 HRC iirc) that Farid worked with would fare a bit better than INFI in edge retention as well :D
 
In a lot of ways this question is unanswerable. Do busses have unequaled performance in regardes to their ability to withstand abuse? Yes. Is that jump in performance, which as an owner of all the aforementioned brands I am perhaps unusually qualified to comment on, significant? Yes. Is that jump in performance worth the extra $$$? Only you can answer that question for yourself. To some of us clearly yes, to others not so much. If you use INFI enough you will notice there are some oddities about its performance, different from other steels. To some people being able to get a new one if you break your old one is enough. To some of us who have worked in emergency fields, breaking isn't really an option because the cost of a new knife is irrelevant next to the cost of failure. Bottom line? What you do and how deep your pockets are really is what needs to inform your decision.

I do have two other quick points to make here. First I see this 500$ figure tossed around a lot here. Its straight up factually innacurate. The team gemini, the current busse dejour, is 340$. If you go to the busse collector's website you can see that MANY of their combat grade knives are at or below that price. To call them cheap would be absurd, but they're not THAT expensive. Unlike lots of other knives they also retain their value extremely well. If you bought a desirable knife to start, as long as you don't cliff stamp it (look him up if you don't know who he is because you're new here) you will probably be able to get most if not all of your initial investment back. Try saying that about another hard use fixed blade brand.

And my final point here is that pride in ownership that just comes with some brands. Look at CRK for example. If you have ever owned one you know the performance on a Chris Reeves knife is nothing even remotely special, you will get better out of a spyderco for a fraction of the price. And yet retained value, pride in ownership, quality craftsmanship, an enduring company backing them, and their semi-custom nature seem to make them valuable. Unlike CRK who uses the same fine steel as everyone else, heat treated to usually a pretty mild level I might add, busse is out there at their own fringe edge of the performance spectrum, and has a warranty that lets you go there and beyond with no fear. I think that pretty definitively gives the brand lasting value. You could say similar things about Randall knives not being worth it, but the fact of the matter is that Busses are higher performance, backed by a better warranty, more available, and cheaper than Randalls. Again thats not to say the aforementioned brand is bad, just that if you are defining value........

If you don't like them then don't buy them. Thats the great thing about the free market, you can vote with your $$$. To try and convince everyone though that they are low performance is absurd. If what you want is JUST ultimate wear resistance and edge geometry, try Phil Wilson. If you want that in a production format go check out spyderco. If you want the Busse affinity try the new scrapmax knives. Hell just buy a busse and give it a shot, you can get your money back on the exchange forum if you don't like it, but if you use your knives hard I am guessing you won't let it go any time soon. There is definitely more than meets the eye with this brand.
 
Another point to make is the before you get caught up in price, just remember that aside from Busse and the other four mentioned above (ESEE, Swamprat, Scapyard and Fehrman), people tend to forget that there is a whole slew of Custom knifemakers that will make you a knife out of a great steel that will last you a lifetime. Any custom maker using a good tool steel, like A2, 52100, 3V, A8, W1, W2, etc., can make you such a fine implement that it will make you proud to own it. A good Custom knife will cost you anywhere from $400 and a lot more for a larger one, but it is worth every penny.
 
Cobalt said:
Another point to make is the before you get caught up in price, just remember that aside from Busse and the other four mentioned above (ESEE, Swamprat, Scapyard and Fehrman), people tend to forget that there is a whole slew of Custom knifemakers that will make you a knife out of a great steel that will last you a lifetime. Any custom maker using a good tool steel, like A2, 52100, 3V, A8, W1, W2, etc., can make you such a fine implement that it will make you proud to own it. A good Custom knife will cost you anywhere from $400 and a lot more for a larger one, but it is worth every penny.
Click to expand...

Customs I do think get over looked often due to wait times. I am considering a Koster as my next knife, I would really like to try a Busse in the 6-7 inch range but I cant seem to find one that fits what I am looking for like the Koster MUCK does. Maybe I am over looking a model from the Busse line, and some of you guys more into the Busses could tell me if there is a model that is a 6-7 inch blade that is .22 - .25 inch thick that doesnt weigh more than 11 oz.
 
sloth357 said:
We could all get by with just a cheap machete, axe, and SAK. But what fun would that be.
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it. Its my view that guys who buy and use Busses, Sebenzas, Hinderers, etc. do it almost exclusively for the fun. Everything else is the cover story. And I sorta like it when grown-a** men have fun with their toys, because people who are passionate about things are just more fun to hang with.
 
Cobalt said:
I have never understood the need for little knives like the Steel Heart:D

As for INFI, you won't find a steel that has the highest combination of wear resistance, shock resistance, and lateral strength than INFI. It just does not exist. SR101 is not even close. Neither is SR77, which may be almost as tough(but not as tough belive it or not) and can bend as far, maybe even farther, but has no where near the wear resistance or lateral strength.


If you think your knife can, then do these throwing tests thousands of times to your hard use knife:




Then chop your hard use knife like this and twist the edge out of the wood by torquing it out sideways, do this repeatedly, daily. See how fast you leave divits in the wood and half dime size chunks of steel out of your blade.



then take your hard use blade and throw it into the wood stump so it's tip sticks in 1.5-2 inches and proceed to wiggle it out with lateral movements to see if you leave the tip in the wood at some point. The wood stump has lots of pieces of knives that failed.



Then do all that repeatedly every year for over 10 years and include the chopping of 4 cords of wood. And I am just one of many who have repeatedly used these knives harder than anything else. It is still the best all around steel there is. There are some very great steels that will do all that needs to be done and I have no doubt Fehrman will get you through anything you need to do, so will Scrapyard and Swamprat and ESEE knives sound like they are great for the money. No denying any of these will get you through anything and if you do your part there truly is no need for anything better than these. And I would feel perfectly fine with any of them. Busse is just at the top of the heap. Even with some of the worst factory edges I have seen in a knife. But also some of the best factory edges I have seen as well. If you know how to sharpen or know someone that does, you can turn a busse into a razor easily.

But I do agree that for little knives it is overkill. Although, no one has ever died from overkill.
Click to expand...

All right, Cobalt, this has been bugging me for years. Are these pictures messed up, or is it my browser? I keep hoping for a cool "knife sticking out of the stump" shot, but I just keep seeing a stump. What gives? Am I missing something? Pics (all 10,000) or it didn't happen! :D
 
If you click on the pic, it should redirect you to photobucket and play the video clips.

sodak said:
All right, Cobalt, this has been bugging me for years. Are these pictures messed up, or is it my browser? I keep hoping for a cool "knife sticking out of the stump" shot, but I just keep seeing a stump. What gives? Am I missing something? Pics (all 10,000) or it didn't happen! :D
Click to expand...
 
Is a Schmidt and Bender scope worth $3,500+ when you can get a Tasco for $50?

Is a basic, stripped Rolex worth $12,000 while you can get a Fossil for $100?

Is a Noveske worth $2500 when you can get a PSA for $700?

Is a Hinderer worth $450+ when you can get a Smith and Wesson for $12?


It's all up to the consumer. If it's worth it to you, that's all that matters. I love INFI, have beat the hell out of it and it holds up excellent. In not for the amazing knives, I've met a lot of cool people going to Knob Creek, Blade, and a local gun show who share the same commen interest.

As for all of the comments about Busses being rediculously thick, Busse does make some thick knives. The MOAB at .4" thick. FFBM at .32 thick, some NMFBMs are .27" and .3" thick. One of my favorite users is an older A2 SHBA fatty that is .3" thick, it cuts great and feels great. Busse has made a lot of knives of the same thickness too. Personally, I love thick knives, they feel good, balance well, and they feel like a real knife.

BUT....Busse has also made plenty of knives that are under .25" thick, and if you can't find those models you're google abilities suck. Bashing a company because of a false rumor that all their knives are stupid thick because you can't use google. Hell, Jeremy Horton makes (made) a lot of thick stuff, and all I hear about his designes is love and respect. Hell, he made a half inch thick sword and knuckle knife. Busse, to my knowledge, has never made one that was half an inch thick. (for the record, I love Horton's work and am not bashing him).

Busses factory edges, most recently are V grinds. Most don't come super charp from the factory, but they're usable field edges that will maintain the same level of sharpness with little to no maintance for a long while. If you want a knife that's sharper, it's easy to convex their edges, I do that on all my Busse users, and truthfully, the convex edges hold up great. My NMSFNO did get a little edge damage when I threw it and it glanced off cinder block, but the nicks and chipps worked out great and you can't even tell any damage was done (besides the chucks that were taken out of the micarta).


Basically, use google and and find a model that you like, that has the thickness and the style you're looking for then buy it and try it out. Invest the money to at least use one before you say it's not worth it. If you don't like it, sell the thing and get your money back.
 
sodak said:
All right, Cobalt, this has been bugging me for years. Are these pictures messed up, or is it my browser? I keep hoping for a cool "knife sticking out of the stump" shot, but I just keep seeing a stump. What gives? Am I missing something? Pics (all 10,000) or it didn't happen! :D
Click to expand...

I just LOL'd for 5 minutes. I think you should be able to click on the pic and it turns into a video. If it does not let me know.
 
Cobalt said:
I just LOL'd for 5 minutes. I think you should be able to click on the pic and it turns into a video. If it does not let me know.
Click to expand...

It doesn't work! For me, at least. All these years looking at that stump, thinking, yeah, so? I must need a plug in or something...
 
Please...ESEE have a very low price depends on the heat treatment, that are so differnet. You can re-sharp a Busse blade in a couple of minutes to a hair slicing razor sharp. ALso it will keep an edge for a long time.
Thougness dipends on geometry blade and steel. There a lot of different type of Busse, The best of them are no longer made. Try the new SAR 7 and then you will say that they are very good too. High price? Depends in what you expect.
I got 3 Busse. No problems aT ALL wth them.
Check this out: SH, SJTAC. The SH is a 2001 line. The best in my opinion. Not the SHergo ones (i got it in LE) but the straight handle SH SH which is quiete better has grip feeling.
 
Bowxpress said:
I still find it interesting, that I keep getting bad INFI, that wont hold an edge very long, I must have bad luck,..and Cobalt I wonder why you keep LOL ing after every statement, you still sound like a Kirby dealer trying to sale something.... since your so well experienced with INFI and its incredible edge holding capability, will you explain to me why the S5 model with the exact same geometry in INFI vs 101, the 101 will hold its edge longer in my findings of 5 blades vs 5 blades,... your claims are different, will you explain that, cuz I'm baffled now,
Click to expand...
maybe you never used a old series one. Try the SHSH or SHBM or SHSHII and you will understand what COBALT say.
I understand...in some line there was problems in heat treatment. Ithink in the fusion line. But, a bad treatment should happen even in the old time, man...I don't selle Knives, never sell a Busse, simply beacuse are my favorite after the custom i own.
 
Cobalt said:
I have never understood the need for little knives like the Steel Heart:D

As for INFI, you won't find a steel that has the highest combination of wear resistance, shock resistance, and lateral strength than INFI. It just does not exist. SR101 is not even close. Neither is SR77, which may be almost as tough(but not as tough belive it or not) and can bend as far, maybe even farther, but has no where near the wear resistance or lateral strength.


If you think your knife can, then do these throwing tests thousands of times to your hard use knife:




Then chop your hard use knife like this and twist the edge out of the wood by torquing it out sideways, do this repeatedly, daily. See how fast you leave divits in the wood and half dime size chunks of steel out of your blade.



then take your hard use blade and throw it into the wood stump so it's tip sticks in 1.5-2 inches and proceed to wiggle it out with lateral movements to see if you leave the tip in the wood at some point. The wood stump has lots of pieces of knives that failed.



Then do all that repeatedly every year for over 10 years and include the chopping of 4 cords of wood. And I am just one of many who have repeatedly used these knives harder than anything else. It is still the best all around steel there is. There are some very great steels that will do all that needs to be done and I have no doubt Fehrman will get you through anything you need to do, so will Scrapyard and Swamprat and ESEE knives sound like they are great for the money. No denying any of these will get you through anything and if you do your part there truly is no need for anything better than these. And I would feel perfectly fine with any of them. Busse is just at the top of the heap. Even with some of the worst factory edges I have seen in a knife. But also some of the best factory edges I have seen as well. If you know how to sharpen or know someone that does, you can turn a busse into a razor easily.

But I do agree that for little knives it is overkill. Although, no one has ever died from overkill.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what he said. Then, one night, have a little too much to drink and head out for some knife tossing.
Zip one sideways into your new deck, piss off your wife, and watch the fireworks unfold! Then, tell me if your knife survives.

SHBM.jpg
 
 
Guyon said:
Yeah, what he said. Then, one night, have a little too much to drink and head out for some knife tossing.
Zip one sideways into your new deck, piss off your wife, and watch the fireworks unfold! Then, tell me if your knife survives.
Click to expand...

LOL - Awesome. Busse "death" by spouse. That should be the next model, D.B.S. I haven't destroyed anything with my knives that might anger my wife, but I have put a bigger dent in our finances than she is aware of... Are Busse knives really worth the risk? ;) But it's OK, I can still keep us warm & well-fed, it's really my own retirement I'm borrowing from, at least that's what I tell her. Busse knives = retirement investment?
 
Live demos, encouraging use / reasonable abuse, always testing, willingness to adopt anything that performs better, ultimate warranty, any configuration imaginable, coated / uncoated / satin finish, the list goes on.........................Now keep in mind, not many, in fact very few custom makers have ever done as much testing of their knives' performance abilities. Maybe not any. I spoke with an ABS Mastersmith about his most popular design, his signature knife and asked how it performs in certain cases. He said, he doesn't really know, but he's "poked it through some stuff and it seems okay". This is not meant to slam ABS, or even that maker. He was honest with me. A lot of MS knives I have loved and have 100% confidence in. Most custom makers will stand by their work 100%. Point is, you spend $1000+ and YOU may be the first hard use tester. All things considered, the answer to the question is that, yes, Busse knives are worth the bux. There are many great knives and great makers out there. Busse is unique enough and holds a high enough position in a particular category to be considered one of them.

Okay, well I guess it's all settled now. Busse knives are worth the bux.

Pete
 
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