Busse knives really worth the bux ?

[Nullity]

Sounds like a pinch grip to me.

Oh, if that's the pinch-grip, then I use it often.
I thought pinch-grip was when, ya know, you pinch the knife/blade between your fingers, instead of fully encompassing the handle... *shrug*

Either way, I'm not agreeing with you.

 

[PatriotDan]

May I ask how thick is the Fehrman's rubber spacer? Sounds like something I'd like to experiment with my own large full tang knives.

I also use a similar grip for trail clearing and property maintenance. It's in my opinion the only way to work for days and hours with big knives and such.

Fehrman has a very eloquent solution to the issue of shock and vibration through the micarta by introducing a rubber spacer between the handle slabs.

There is a noticeable difference in the feel between my Steel Heart E handle and my Fehrman First Strike (nearly identical dimensions) when chopping hard wood.

My technique for chopping is very much like those that use the Khukri, a wrist snap. I normally only hold the handle with my first two fingers and relaxed hold on the other two. Its hard to explain, but second nature to those familiar with blunt weapon arts. So yea, I'm probably doing it all kinds of wrong.

 

[Cobalt]

LOL I'll pass on that, I think! I just find that more solid materials work better for machete handles, like polypropylene, wood, or micarta.

I normally agree with your comment above. However, resiprene isn't your normal rubber feeling handle. It does not have the sticky tackiness of normal rubber that causes hot spots when chopping. I have not ever had a problem with using it for chopping. In fact, in wet situations resiprene is actually much more secure feeling than the typical wood or plastic used in machetes. I still prefer micarta or even rough G10, but I have no issue with resiprene. For example, my old CS Trailmaster use to give me hot spots, part of it was the crappy handle design, but the other part was the very rough tacky feel of the handle. On the complete opposite side are the Becker handles, in my opinion quite possibly the worst and least secure handles I have ever used on any knife. Replacement is almost always a must unless you use grippy gloves. I sold all my beckers because of that. Got rid of all my CS's that had rubber handles.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yeah like I said I can't logically write off Resiprene C without actually having felt it. But it does present a barrier to me since I wouldn't drop that kind of money on one unless I had prior experience with the material. On a regular knife it wouldn't be an issue, but for pinch grip work I'm naturally a little more cautious of rubbery materials.

 

[Cobalt]

Yeah like I said I can't logically write off Resiprene C without actually having felt it. But it does present a barrier to me since I wouldn't drop that kind of money on one unless I had prior experience with the material. On a regular knife it wouldn't be an issue, but for pinch grip work I'm naturally a little more cautious of rubbery materials.

I have always been as well. In fact, I always liked the way some would customize their trailmasters with aftermarket micarta handles. That is always an option, but it is costly. About the only negative in my opinion to these handles on the 1311 is that they are small enough that you don't have too many holding options. I think on a blade this big, they should have extended the handle maybe 3/4 of an inch, but I am nitpicking now. The 1311 is truly a nice heavy machete.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I've got li'l tiny hands (see above posts) so a small handle isn't an issue to me, at least.

 

[Codger_64]

I agree, but sometimes mistakes are made and knives break. Maybe when you're hungry or fatigued. At those times, I'd like to have a knife that is over-built.

How much over-built... 10%, 37.5%, 100%? I suppose that's the more interesting question. :yawn:

Maybe a knife that's too over-built will cause you to become fatigued earlier... hmmm...

I find the fear of breaking knives to be interesting. In fifty or more years of using knives afield, I've never broken one. Perhaps I am just using them wrong or not hard enough? Well, that is my experience anyway, and my opinion is worth just what you paid for it.

 

[Nullity]

I find the fear of breaking knives to be interesting. In fifty or more years of using knives afield, I've never broken one. Perhaps I am just using them wrong or not hard enough? Well, that is my experience anyway, and my opinion is worth just what you paid for it.

I've never accidently (purposely... yes) broken a knife either, but to dismiss the possibility would be short-sighted.
I'm mainly referring to a survival situation, and not casual use.

For me, hard-use knives are a mixture of "what-if" and pure fun. I like big, tough, over-built, "manly" things.

 

[Codger_64]

Fun factor is easily understood. "Back in the day", i was into black powder in a big way including cap-n-ball revolvers. IMHO, nothing beats the size, heft and smoke cloud of a .44 Colt Walker with a full 60g charge. But afield, I carried the smaller improved Colt 1851 Sherrif's model in .36 cal.

And I have on occasion found myself afield with a "survival situation", but still found my favorite knives more than adequate for my needs and uses. To each his own. Own knife choices and own fears.

 

[Cobalt]

i've got li'l tiny hands (see above posts) so a small handle isn't an issue to me, at least. :d

lol :d

 

[sodak]

I normally agree with your comment above. However, resiprene isn't your normal rubber feeling handle. It does not have the sticky tackiness of normal rubber that causes hot spots when chopping. I have not ever had a problem with using it for chopping. In fact, in wet situations resiprene is actually much more secure feeling than the typical wood or plastic used in machetes. I still prefer micarta or even rough G10, but I have no issue with resiprene. For example, my old CS Trailmaster use to give me hot spots, part of it was the crappy handle design, but the other part was the very rough tacky feel of the handle. On the complete opposite side are the Becker handles, in my opinion quite possibly the worst and least secure handles I have ever used on any knife. Replacement is almost always a must unless you use grippy gloves. I sold all my beckers because of that. Got rid of all my CS's that had rubber handles.

I'm one of the few people that actually like CS's rubber handles, especially on 4 to 6 inch knives. For the larger ones, Res C is very much the way to go. One nice thing about Res C is that if you accidentally cut it, you can repair it very easily with a butane lighter. Not as pretty as the factory job, but it works well, I've done it once.

 

[leatherman]

Sounds like a pinch grip to me.

I want to remember it was referred to as the rapier grip, the term pinch grip does not sound familiar. When I think pinch grip I visualize gripping the blade or handle between my thumb and forefingers in a pinching motion for close work in skinning. Done that a lot with rabbits and deer.

May I ask how thick is the Fehrman's rubber spacer? Sounds like something I'd like to experiment with my own large full tang knives.

I also use a similar grip for trail clearing and property maintenance. It's in my opinion the only way to work for days and hours with big knives and such.

iirc the rubber material is under 1/16ths thick, I can take a picture of the knife disassembled if you need a visual. It really is an ingenious solution.

As for Res C, it can be rather punishing with the loose grip method, but so can the heavily machined micarta grips. Both will slowly make hot spots in time. Some of the Busse micarta can be downright painful. Smooth or lightly textured is definitely the way to go.

 

[leatherman]

I find the fear of breaking knives to be interesting. In fifty or more years of using knives afield, I've never broken one. Perhaps I am just using them wrong or not hard enough? Well, that is my experience anyway, and my opinion is worth just what you paid for it.

I've more than made up for your not breaking knives. At least a dozen on my end. The most recent was a heart breaking snap of an Old Timer Stockman. I loved that knife and it had seen a lot of miles. One torque in the wrong direction and "snap" One of these days I'll have it ground to a usable profile and put it in my pocket again.

I've grown not to like thin inflexible blades needless to say. So many knife tips, so little patience.

 

[comoha]

I've more than made up for your not breaking knives. At least a dozen on my end. The most recent was a heart breaking snap of an Old Timer Stockman. I loved that knife and it had seen a lot of miles. One torque in the wrong direction and "snap" One of these days I'll have it ground to a usable profile and put it in my pocket again.

I've grown not to like thin inflexible blades needless to say. So many knife tips, so little patience.

Maybe you're doing it wrong.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I want to remember it was referred to as the rapier grip, the term pinch grip does not sound familiar. When I think pinch grip I visualize gripping the blade or handle between my thumb and forefingers in a pinching motion for close work in skinning. Done that a lot with rabbits and deer.

A "rapier grip" would be with one or two fingers extended over the quillion of a guard, with the thumb on the ricasso.

But I get what you mean by thinking of the pinch grip as being the same as used on chef's knives and similar. I didn't invent the term "pinch grip" with relation to machetes but that's what's stuck. Not sure what else to call it though--perhaps "pivoting grip" or "casting grip" because of the way you "throw" the mass of the tip with it in a casting motion?

iirc the rubber material is under 1/16ths thick, I can take a picture of the knife disassembled if you need a visual. It really is an ingenious solution.

As for Res C, it can be rather punishing with the loose grip method, but so can the heavily machined micarta grips. Both will slowly make hot spots in time. Some of the Busse micarta can be downright painful. Smooth or lightly textured is definitely the way to go.

Yeah I prefer my grip security to come from the shape of the grip rather than texturing. I think a very well-designed grip can be comfortable and secure even if it were made of oiled glass.

 

[Codger_64]

I've more than made up for your not breaking knives. At least a dozen on my end. The most recent was a heart breaking snap of an Old Timer Stockman. I loved that knife and it had seen a lot of miles. One torque in the wrong direction and "snap" One of these days I'll have it ground to a usable profile and put it in my pocket again.

I've grown not to like thin inflexible blades needless to say. So many knife tips, so little patience.

Maybe you're doing it wrong.

That would be my guess. I've had workers break screwdrivers by using them wrong. And sledge hammers, believe it or not. I have a bag of Schrade Uncle Henry stockman knives with broken blades that came from the Schrade factory after it closed in '04, no doubt remnants of knives returned for their warranty replacement. Over half have more than one broken blade. They didn't break because of defective steel or heat treat. They broke because their owners did not know how to use a knife. A pocketknife is not a screwdriver and it is not a prybar. It isn't a chisel and it isn't a froe. I carry and use this same pattern of knife (897UH Signature Premium Stockman) every day in my construction work and have done so since the early 1970's (Though the particular pattern was introduced in 1967) and I am yet to break one. Maybe I am doing something right?

Today, some knives are made to pry and chisel, some knives are made with screwdriver blades and some knives are made to be used in the place of a froe. But then their utility as a knife, a cutting tool, is always compromised in some way. Most craftsmen, regardless of their craft, will select the right tool for the job and use it for it's intended purpose.

For instance I have a set of fine wood chisels in different shapes and sizes for use on wood and plastic. I also have a variety of concrete chisels from small, fine ones to large brick and floor chisels. And then I have a small variety of steel wood splitting wedges, each with a specific task in mind.

Likewise a variety of hammers, some tiny ones to drive brads into cove molding, and some for driving 16d nails in one or two blows for framing, sledges from 2# through 16# in 2# increments for everything from straightening steel panels, driving rebar and nail pins to wrecking out 6" thick concrete. I also have several rubber dead blow hammers. The black one for most uses where I am not worried about marring and the white one for use on powder coated, vinyl and plastic surfaces where black marks would detract.

People, it seems to me, are less tool educated than they once were. What was once considered common sense about using each tool is no longer so common. When a tool (knife) fails in use, they blame it on the tool. Some companies with liberal warranties, like Schrade, have gone under in part because those warranties were put in place at a time when the average knife users knew what tasks a knife were designed to do and which they were not, and newer generations of buyers had no such education.

But that is just my own opinion from what I have observed over the past half century growing up using tools on a farm and working in a variety of construction fields.

 

[Nullity]

Good post, Codger_64.

Though, sometimes the right tool is hours or miles away, and the wrong tool becomes the only tool.

That bag of broken Schrade knives sounds interesting. Nice find.

 

[Codger_64]

Good post, Codger_64.

Though, sometimes the right tool is hours or miles away, and the wrong tool becomes the only tool.

That bag of broken Schrade knives sounds interesting. Nice find.

Thanks Nullity. As for the tools being hours or miles away, I also select the right truck. It has a cross bed box behind the cab full of power tools, two 6' side boxes - one for hand tools and one for parts and gaskets, a front in bed box for cords, hoses and pool cleaning equipment and a rear bed box full of plumbing parts and tools. Long tools like shovels, rakes, brooms, picks, mattocks, axes, San Angelo bars fit under the side boxes. A small passenger side rack holds long pool cleaning poles or sticks of PVC pipe, conduit or ground rods.

If the only tool available is the wrong tool, you are doing it wrong.

Some day I'll get around to breaking down those broken knives and building a few good users from the near-new parts. Until then, I have enough duplicates of my favorite user to last the rest of my life and still gift one occasionally to a needy friend, about two dozen last count.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Codger--great post. And I'd like to chime in that if you are highly tool-literate then you can often do much much more with the tool outside the scope of its intended usage without damaging it--or at least not damaging it in a permanent way. Someone less able to gauge the limits of that tool might be able to do far less with it and run a high risk of severely damaging or breaking the tool if using it outside its intended scope of function because of their method of application. If you're very familiar with the limits of your tools you can ensure that, if used for tasks other than intended, that you only apply strain or loads on the tool that it's able to handle.

 

[Codger_64]

Codger--great post. And I'd like to chime in that if you are highly tool-literate then you can often do much much more with the tool outside the scope of its intended usage without damaging it--or at least not damaging it in a permanent way. Someone less able to gauge the limits of that tool might be able to do far less with it and run a high risk of severely damaging or breaking the tool if using it outside its intended scope of function because of their method of application. If you're very familiar with the limits of your tools you can ensure that, if used for tasks other than intended, that you only apply strain or loads on the tool that it's able to handle.

Agreed. An example that I experienced was the instance when I was scouting, not hunting, and a young buck ran up and practically surrendered. He gave me time to take out the bird shot from my shotgun chamber and insert a slug and shoot him. Since I was scouting, I had only a very tiny pen knife in my pocket. More of a fingernail cleaner/string cutter than anything. But with it, I field dressed that deer. Then after transporting and checking it, out of curiosity more than need, I proceeded to completely skin and butcher that deer with the same pen knife. Knowing that the knife might fold backwards breaking the blade or spring if I put too much pressure on the blade by using the handle only, I used my finger on the back of the blade so that the pressure was not on the tang, spring or joint. Knowing that a folding knife can fold in use, I kept the blade angle such that it never was biased in that direction. It took a long time to complete the task, but by and by I did get it done.

Another instance occured when I was bow hunting and killed a treed coon. Her mate was not so easily taken, though mortally wounded and by that time I had lost or broken all of my arrows. I tied my sheath knife to a limb long enough to reach the coon and twisted him out of the tree to the ground where I could impale him against a solid surface. The sheath knife was not pointed enough to penetrate the tough hide and fat on it's own.

So yes, adaptation and improvisation can extend the uses of a knife or other tool. But as the famous philosopher once said , "A man has got to know his limitations". And likewise his tools' as Codger would say.