Busse knives really worth the bux ?

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leatherman said:
If we try to list all the knife makers that make impractical knives, we'd be here all month. Take United Cutlery for example. :p I see no practical need for the Argonne Assault, but I also see no need for a Machete where I live. Impractical, like worth, is subjective.

I see some impracticality in owning a dozen "Sharp Fingers" But your quote "for the pleasure of owning them" Does apply in all cases, I have acquaintances that are overjoyed with their plastic handles katana's. :D
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Dartboard! Think about it! :p
 
I think your on to something there! Label a dartboard with different knife selections and throw your carry for the day! :D :D :D
 
Codger_64 said:
"If you break it they will give you a new one". Why would you do that? I can see how a person with little or no skills with a knife might by using a knife improperly, but aren't most of us fairly skilled with the use of knives in ordinary knife tasks?
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If this the case why would someone need a Busse over an ESEE? Why do people worry about the toughness of a blade if a person with even mild skills would never break a knife. It happens thats why people worry about the toughness and its why ESEE puts out the warranty they do. It is sad because im sure it does get taken advantage but at the same time I think it shows that they have alot of confidence in the product that they put out.
 
Enough quantifying.

We seem to be forgetting about the immeasurable fun and enjoyment factor.

Justify all you want, but don't disrespect someone else's choice.


Either way, I hope you all had an enjoyable holiday. :D
 
baldtaco-II said:
That's not at all correct. In this section of the forum we tend to start with tasks and then find things that might be good at solving them. Nobody here needs to buy a bunch of overweight super triple thickness canvas rucksacks at silly cost to know they would be very poor value for real world tasks. Same with knives...................I've only possessed two Busse family knives; one I bought new and the other thing I swapped for a pair of Steiners. The Camp Tramp suffered terribly from rust and that was far more important a real world issue than any apparent strength advantage it may have had. The intended recipient of the other knife chuckled and said he'd be better off with a butcher knife if he wanted something to fight with, a position that I was already entrenched in, I just thought he'd like it. Both turned out to be poor value. And it is also very obvious to me that I don't need to own one of the huge Busses to know that it would be terrible value compared to a billhook.........In short, sometimes it is knowing about knives that prohibits one from buying a useless lump to begin with and that doesn't just apply here we could apply it to some Gerbers, Cutco, and a bunch of pseudo military crud from Cold Steel amongst others. The problems that reside in other sections of the forum, wherein someone buys a knife and then has to look for uses for it tends to happen less here. When we are dealing with task driven stuff what is useful for solving those tasks can be very obvious, as can be what is not. Supposing that one has to have possessed each bit of kit that comes along to drawn an accurate conclusion about it is an unreasonable position.
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Good post, sir! :):thumbup:
 
baldtaco-II said:
That's not at all correct. In this section of the forum we tend to start with tasks and then find things that might be good at solving them...
...I've only possessed two Busse family knives ... The Camp Tramp suffered terribly from rust and that was far more important a real world issue than any apparent strength advantage it may have had. The intended recipient of the other knife chuckled and said he'd be better off with a butcher knife if he wanted something to fight with... Both turned out to be poor value. And it is also very obvious to me that I don't need to own one of the huge Busses to know that it would be terrible value compared to a billhook.........In short, sometimes it is knowing about knives that prohibits one from buying a useless lump to begin with and that doesn't just apply here we could apply it to some Gerbers, Cutco, and a bunch of pseudo military crud from Cold Steel amongst others. The problems that reside in other sections of the forum, wherein someone buys a knife and then has to look for uses for it tends to happen less here. When we are dealing with task driven stuff what is useful for solving those tasks can be very obvious, as can be what is not. Supposing that one has to have possessed each bit of kit that comes along to drawn an accurate conclusion about it is an unreasonable position.
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I am a bit perplexed by this post.

You begin with asserting task-driven tool purchasing, then relate two experiences where you failed to follow this method and you blame the tools?
You bought a Camp Tramp for the "apparent strength advantage" but neglected it to corrosion - how is that the tool's fault? That is like blaming a box-cutter for snapping in half when used as a prybar. Corrosion is not unavoidable - a blade coating even as thin as silicone grease will prevent it. If your use requires a high level of corrosion resistance in your tools, why did you select a non-stainless steel and then neglect it?? You selected a tool like this for the strength & toughness advantages - was that required? Task-driven selection? If your use required corrosion resistance as priority over strength & toughness, how can you criticize a tool which puts strength & toughness as priority? Would you criticize the box-cutter for being too weak to pry with?
The other unnamed knife was apparently gifted as "something to fight with" - so did you select a knife designed for fighting? The knives most commonly used as weapons are indeed kitchen knives, but they are not designed to be weapons and most do not come with sheaths and aren't carried in 'organized' combat. Military knives usually aren't designed so much for fighting either, but for general combat utility - cutting, prying, digging, chopping, and stabbing as a last resort. But there are "fighting knives". If that was the intended purpose, did you select a knife designed for such? Why did you pick something inferior to a kitchen knife?

Both of your instances sound like personal problems and are certainly NOT general principle against Busse any other knife company/maker (not sure why you singled out the ones you did?). The knives were not "poor value" or "useless". Did you sell the knives? Did you charge a fair "value" price for them? A tool that isn't valuable of useful to you is not objectively valueless or useless. I recall a thread where the OP couldn't comprehend a "hunting knife" with a >5" blade... because his user preferences were for a smaller knife. Because of this idea, he considered all knives with a blade >5" useless for hunting. You will find many individuals who assert a preference for >5" hunting blades, or who prefer or even require a knife as strong and tough as bussekin, and certainly quite a few who would find a billhook utterly useless for a myriad of tasks to which they'd put their "huge Busses". And importantly, these individuals prefer these tools based on experience.

Unless the piece of kit in question is restricted to tasks which are entirely alien to your needs and experience, then until you have seen and experienced what can be accomplished with each bit of another person's kit, NO, you cannot draw an accurate conclusion about it. You can theorize, but it remains only a theory until tested. Drawing a conclusion without performing the experiment = poor practice. And that is all too common.

Here are a couple of theories I'll throw out there:
1) A billhook is a poor substitute for a large knife in scope of versatility and performance.
2) There are specific tasks for which a billhook was designed where it performs better than a tool designed for greater versatility.
3) You like the tools that you like and wouldn't switch to something else even if objective tests demonstrated their superiority to what you have in the very tasks you might use them for.
4) #3 applies to many more individuals than yourself.

Again, all just theories. Enjoy what you have. If you don't enjoy it, why do you have it? Just $0.02
 
chiral.grolim said:
I am a bit perplexed by this post.You begin with asserting task-driven tool purchasing, then relate two experiences where you failed to follow this method and you blame the tools?You bought a Camp Tramp for the "apparent strength advantage" but neglected it to corrosion - how is that the tool's fault? That is like blaming a box-cutter for snapping in half when used as a prybar. Corrosion is not unavoidable - a blade coating even as thin as silicone grease will prevent it. If your use requires a high level of corrosion resistance in your tools, why did you select a non-stainless steel and then neglect it?? You selected a tool like this for the strength & toughness advantages - was that required? Task-driven selection? If your use required corrosion resistance as priority over strength & toughness, how can you criticize a tool which puts strength & toughness as priority? Would you criticize the box-cutter for being too weak to pry with?The other unnamed knife was apparently gifted as "something to fight with" - so did you select a knife designed for fighting? The knives most commonly used as weapons are indeed kitchen knives, but they are not designed to be weapons and most do not come with sheaths and aren't carried in 'organized' combat. Military knives usually aren't designed so much for fighting either, but for general combat utility - cutting, prying, digging, chopping, and stabbing as a last resort. But there are "fighting knives". If that was the intended purpose, did you select a knife designed for such? Why did you pick something inferior to a kitchen knife?Both of your instances sound like personal problems and are certainly NOT general principle against Busse any other knife company/maker (not sure why you singled out the ones you did?). The knives were not "poor value" or "useless". Did you sell the knives? Did you charge a fair "value" price for them? A tool that isn't valuable of useful to you is not objectively valueless or useless. I recall a thread where the OP couldn't comprehend a "hunting knife" with a >5" blade... because his user preferences were for a smaller knife. Because of this idea, he considered all knives with a blade >5" useless for hunting. You will find many individuals who assert a preference for >5" hunting blades, or who prefer or even require a knife as strong and tough as bussekin, and certainly quite a few who would find a billhook utterly useless for a myriad of tasks to which they'd put their "huge Busses". And importantly, these individuals prefer these tools based on experience.Unless the piece of kit in question is restricted to tasks which are entirely alien to your needs and experience, then until you have seen and experienced what can be accomplished with each bit of another person's kit, NO, you cannot draw an accurate conclusion about it. You can theorize, but it remains only a theory until tested. Drawing a conclusion without performing the experiment = poor practice. And that is all too common.Here are a couple of theories I'll throw out there:1) A billhook is a poor substitute for a large knife in scope of versatility and performance.2) There are specific tasks for which a billhook was designed where it performs better than a tool designed for greater versatility.3) You like the tools that you like and wouldn't switch to something else even if objective tests demonstrated their superiority to what you have in the very tasks you might use them for.4) #3 applies to many more individuals than yourself.Again, all just theories. Enjoy what you have. If you don't enjoy it, why do you have it? Just $0.02
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Allow me to unpack it a bit for you then, because I'm in little doubt that I could have been clearer, but I shall return to the main thrust of that at the end:.............................[1] I don't blame the tools, I made and observation statement about the tools. That's not the same thing........................I confess that the Camp Tramp was a punt. Prior to that I had an Ontario RAT 7 that I liked, but I was dumb in my choice. I picked the 1095 one. I was an idiot and I was sold a bunch of old pony about strength and the old carbon vs stainless thing. I knew less about the climate of fear sellers try to instil in knife buyers to market stuff. Despite having only ever broken one knife, and that was a dagger I broke on purpose, I still managed to get sucked in. It wasn't like now where I pay attention to threads here titled along the lines of “so who's broken a knife then” and you'll hear not much more that crickets save for the occasional clod that admits to doing something dippy. And when one considers the volume of traffic this forum gets and the huge leaning toward very thin knives, and even couple of quid Moras, that should say a lot. But then to me it didn't and I rounded up to carbons like I would have with goloks and axes...................... That was foolish because a buddy that also had a RAT 7 but his was in D2, a knife that for all practical purposes was indistinguishable save for his didn't go ginger. Now here's where it gets to a bind. One would have thought I'd just get a D2 one, but that violates policy. The policy is that I can't buy the same one twice. Sometimes that really seems like poor policy at first, as with when my SAK Hunter went missing, but it always comes good in the end – I found the Outrider. So I needed to replace that RAT 7. Two things caused me to go after that Camp Tramp. I prefer rubber handles to any other type and two that I was under the impression that 52100 was less disposed to rust than 1095. I was wrong, it's a ginger swine in waiting too. Fallkniven, Boker, and Linder had all made little stainless knives that I'd loved, and if either of those three had one in the size and shape I wanted I wouldn't have touched the Camp Tramp..................Anyway, that's the back story behind the Camp Tramp. I didn't buy it because I believed it was especially strong, I bought it in the knowledge that it was sufficiently strong [along with many others]. Now here's a thing. They get marketed on their apparent strength. They have a decent enough edge retention but that's not what they're marketed for, only a fool would try that because we all know that many other steels would blow them into the weeds at that. As a secondary factor folks do try the old “ease of sharpening” wriggle, but it's mainly all BS about the strength you allegedly need. My contention was that they go rusty easily and that easily dwarfs the strength headroom they apparently have even if they were so strong you could pry up a bungalow with one. All that fanciful stuff and envisaged extreme use scenarios is as nothing compared to “my knife didn't look this corroded a couple of days back”. And as an outstanding foil to dericdesmond's “self formed opinions based on the busse KNIFE/s you/others have owned and more importantly, used is all that really belongs here” I don't need to buy any more of them to know that.................................The other knife was strictly an opportunist purchase. I don't know the exact model or what it retailed for originally. I can tell you it was black and yellow like a wasp and clearly was a fighting type design. I estimated its original price to be more than the Steiners, and I could swap there and then in meatspace. I had no intention of keeping it. The guy I got it for I've helped out a bit. A year or so after meeting him he still had rubbish Hi-Fi so I took him to the Hi-Fi store and told him I'd match him £ for £ if he bought an amp I'd buy his speakers, or the other way round. As I knew he'd gotten into Ninpo I thought he'd like the knife. It turned out to be a pain. I wanted to bring it up to speed and buff it to a presentation mirror finish and I found great gouges under the paint. It was clearly shoddily done and covered up. I sanded all that out and finished it right, and after all that he wasn't impressed with it............................There we go, two different samples and two different routes to a lack of satisfaction. I admit that I didn't need to post all that detail because I had already answered the OPs question on value pages back. There was a bit of an ulterior motive in my methods though – this thread was starting to get a tad bellicose and I thought by adding a bit of flesh to the bones it might soften the bad news a bit. I've been told before here that I don't tend to deliver bad news to folks very gently, and it was hard not to given the absurdity of “ self formed opinions based on the busse KNIFE/s you/others have owned and more importantly, used is all that really belongs here”. It could come across as a bit cruel to counter that so easily. To repost an extract from the Busse forum in which a fan describes a large Busse as being like a 3lb hammer alone could be mean. I don't need to come within a few thousand miles of the below to know that is presents like a safety knife one might find at Toys R Us. In fact if one rounded the point off it looks exactly like the kind of cut proof device that the scout movement here might endorse. I don't need to own one to see what's immediately wrong with it.
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That's a big wall of text, can you break it up a bit?

On second thought, nevermind...

I'm always a bit amused about folks dissing knives on a knife forum,
to each their own, I always say.

The Busse brand has stood the test of time.
And admirably so, I might add.
 
The Busse Custom Shop would be happy to put whichever edge you favor on you knife.
 
I'm confused and still don't know if Busse knives are worth the bucks. Isn't this a simple yes/no matter?
 
Lycosa said:
Only Busse can give INFI. It's the INFI.
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Honestly, I would take their knives in other steels too. They just do a great job on handles, new designs and grinds.

If they started selling in any number of other high performance steels, I would still buy them.


@ Baldtaco-II, so the camp tramp was a bad knife because the steel needed proper maintenance?

It is Sr101 (their version of 52100) and it is a pretty rust aggressive steel. Great steel though. There is a reason that many master smith knife makers choose it to forge their custom blades out of. My 1095 is pretty rust aggressive, if not taken proper care of. I don't wine about it. I just know that my high carbon, and most tool steels will require a bit more care.
 
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I put a ESEE 6 thru a torture test one winter. Although my pictures are long gone, the description of what was going on is still there. You can get a sense of just how much I put that 6 thru by reading members posts in that thread. That 6 was twisted, bent, torqued, stuck, yanked back and fourth and came out true with a perfect edge. That blade was given to TheZenful1 and is still in use.
I trust that ESEE 6 with Rowen 1095 as much as I do a blade that size in INFI.

The 6 was being beaten into a large knot in frozen dead oak.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/813341-1095-vs-Oak-Real-Deal?highlight=ESEE
 
I have a couple Busse's and I love them. Frankly, I don't care whether other people think they're worth the price or not as long as there are enough sales to keep Busse in the knife making business.

Everyone has different thoughts on the value of any particular knife or brand, but that doesn't diminish the opinions of those in disagreement. People use their knives differently, have different performance expectations, provide different levels of care and upkeep, and prefer different styles. Due to the inherent differences between different individuals' expectations and experiences, some disagreement is bound to occur over the value of even the most universally popular blades. All this means is that some will like a certain brand, some won't, and neither are incorrect.

I don't understand the point of arguing over this particular question as I'll never be able to convince someone with what they consider a bad experience with Busse that they are awesome knives, that person will never convince me that they suck, and anyone with no experience will still have no experience after we're done trying to one up one another.

If you have the money to spend on a Busse style that appeals to you, buy it. If you aren't satisfied, there are several of us that would be willing to buy it off of you. It'snot really a huge risk under those conditions and then you can decide for yourself if Busse knives are worth it. Plus you'll have the fun of using, playing with, or just staring at something different. You never know until you try.

On a side note, I find it kind of an odd question to ask about the worth of an entire brand on a site that has an entire section devoted to fans of that brand. I can understand asking about the worth of an individual knife or style but the brand is obviously popular enough on this site that many are going to talk it up.
 
Mr. Guyon- I can now actually buy a knife that is not Red or chisel ground. :D
If one buys a knife and loves it, it is well worth the bux. End 'O story.
 
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