Busse or Fehrman knives?

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I have noticed that when a potential buyer has narrowed down (you did consider all alternatives before choosing between Busse and Ferhman, right?) his choices between two different mfrs, it may be time to cast both aside and select from option number three:

Bark River.

Choose your poison here:
DLTtradingCompany.com or here knivessshipfree.com

Now, this phenominon that I have "noticed" cannot be explained.... I have witnessed it and I pass it on to you....
 
pretty much everything said in here is spot on.

CPM3v and INFI are both based off of Chipper type steels, with different microconstituents. Heat Treats are also different. As for edge holding, people that have not owned busses long do not understand them. Busse knives will start to show dulling and then all of sudden get sharp again. They stay sharper than nearly anything else I have owned including 3V. Both steels resist chipping well, but again INFI has the advantage here. Both steels will eventually start to rust, and from what I have heard INFI has a very slight edge here as well. You really cannot go wrong with either, but I think INFI does everything just a bit better. However, you may like Fehrmans style better.

The rec for swamprat or Scrapyard is a good one. Scrapyard is nearly as tough at 1/3 the price of INFI and half the price of Fehrman. It will rust faster however. And it will not hold an edge as long. Scrapyards Dogfather is made from an S7 derivative, which is a steel used in jackhammer bits.
 
If I could get a Busse at a normal price, I might go that way. Spending an extra $200 on something that was being made 6 months earlier and not now is just crazy. I understand that it makes them collectable and all, and its great marketing, but not realistic for me. Making some like that would be fine, and another line for people who want a solid user would be great.

If I could find one for a good price that has been used would be nice as well, but these things get marked up to damn much, even after being used.

I am going to stick with Fehrman. Without trying to get flamed here, I think someone who tries to make a good knife that everyone can buy when wanted, and not worrying about the marketing involved gets my vote.

A knife is a tool to me, and I would be pissed if Dewalt changed thier line of drills every 3 months knowing the older drill would bring a premium just cause they stopped making it. To me, a company that does that is catering to the collectors more than the users of that tool. This is not meant to be negative towards Mr. Busse, he makes a great product from what I hear. Just an observation on my part.
 
dbltap45acp said:
If I could get a Busse at a normal price, I might go that way. Spending an extra $200 on something that was being made 6 months earlier and not now is just crazy. I understand that it makes them collectable and all, and its great marketing, but not realistic for me. Making some like that would be fine, and another line for people who want a solid user would be great.

If I could find one for a good price that has been used would be nice as well, but these things get marked up to damn much, even after being used.

I am going to stick with Fehrman. Without trying to get flamed here, I think someone who tries to make a good knife that everyone can buy when wanted, and not worrying about the marketing involved gets my vote.

A knife is a tool to me, and I would be pissed if Dewalt changed thier line of drills every 3 months knowing the older drill would bring a premium just cause they stopped making it. To me, a company that does that is catering to the collectors more than the users of that tool. This is not meant to be negative towards Mr. Busse, he makes a great product from what I hear. Just an observation on my part.
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based on that thinking, I would then go with Scrapyard, because at half the price you get the same performance as Fehrman.

Buying Busses can be a pain, but they are better, of that there is no doubt.
 
Isnt buying a scrapyard knife about the same as Busse, making certain models for a limited time?
 
dbltap45acp said:
Isnt buying a scrapyard knife about the same as Busse, making certain models for a limited time?
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true, can be a real pain in the azz. If you want one and happen to miss it. good thing is resale value is high, but you are right. Usually your best bet is the aftermarket and hope that times are tough and no one is buying so prices stay low. Scrapyard has got to be the most bang for your buck in any knife though.
 
Cobalt said:
pretty much everything said in here is spot on.

CPM3v and INFI are both based off of Chipper type steels, with different microconstituents. Heat Treats are also different. As for edge holding, people that have not owned busses long do not understand them. Busse knives will start to show dulling and then all of sudden get sharp again. They stay sharper than nearly anything else I have owned including 3V. Both steels resist chipping well, but again INFI has the advantage here. Both steels will eventually start to rust, and from what I have heard INFI has a very slight edge here as well. You really cannot go wrong with either, but I think INFI does everything just a bit better. However, you may like Fehrmans style better.

The rec for swamprat or Scrapyard is a good one. Scrapyard is nearly as tough at 1/3 the price of INFI and half the price of Fehrman. It will rust faster however. And it will not hold an edge as long. Scrapyards Dogfather is made from an S7 derivative, which is a steel used in jackhammer bits.
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What he said. BUSSE:thumbup::thumbup::D
 
This is what happen to my Busse Game Warden Blck/Tan G10

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After few minutes on working with this wood

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I was trying to get rid of many holes where crickets can hide from my dragon. It was not of course gentle cutting - I use it with force, but using only hands. However this is not steel pipe but wood. Dry wood of course, but you may see damage - areas of depression etc.

...I guess I was not patient enough to wait while it get sharpen back...

This is just an example, but in many cases I notice that Busse get dull relatively quick. Of course it is tough and may be used for steel pipe batoning as Noss4 shows - so to me this is steel you can always relay on and it will not break etc, but in terms of edge holding it is not the best obviously.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I think INFI is a compromise. I think it is shock resistant and resists chipping. Im not convinced its the uber edge holding steel. All steels are compromises.
 
Nozh, I have never seen a GW with a blade profile like that. The GW blade is short and wide, that looks longer and not as wide. Also, what did you do to the edge on that "knife". if your pic is correct you have a 3/8 inch primary angle which would make it somewhere in the 7-8 degree range.
 
akadave2 said:
I think INFI is a compromise. I think it is shock resistant and resists chipping. Im not convinced its the uber edge holding steel. All steels are compromises.
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true that all steels are a compromise, however, in all the years of Blade show no one has come forward to challenge busse to a rope cutting competition, no one! INFI at blade did 2700 plus cuts on 1 inch hemp rope on the same 2 inch section of blade with little force. Many custom knifemakers where there to witness. Basically, no one has publicly beat INFI in cutting.

I have personally used my SHBM to chop a chord of wood for about 5-6 seasons and I did not need to even sharpen it for the entire season, ALL my other knives including cpm3V customs did not last. All the others either rippled or chipped. INFI did neither.


Jerry and I talked about doing a test at the Blade Show and we did just that. Unfortunately we could not make a big scene about it so we went out back and just whacked away at some 1" hemp rope. The test was a simple rope cutting test. He held the blade against the rope and pushed it through the hemp rope. Jerry wanted to show me that his basic line (Which I just picked up as a distributor) would do everything he claimed.

Up to this point all tests on Busse's knives where done in house without anyone outside of the Busse camp witnessing the results. Well not this time. We did this test right out in the open and many BladeForums members could watch the test. Several people came by and watched at least part of the test which went on for quite a while, nearly 3 hours!

Those who watched at least part of the test were:
Les De Asis, Kit Carson, Rob Simonich, Bob Taylor, Field & Stream magazine and many forum members plus several people I did not know.

The test was simple. We placed a 2X4 on a table and clamped it down. We made guides, to lay the rope down on the 1&1/2" track the rope would lay on, for the cut by simply drilling some screws into the wood. Then Jerry took out a HUGE roll of hemp from his van. Jennifer (Jerry's wife) and I both would count the cuts. We each had a calculator and simply added each cut as it went through.

We used a Basic #9 for the test. We marked the blade with a marker so Jerry would be able to easily see and use the same part of the blade. I was amazed Jerry wanted to do this test even though his hand is still recovering from his accident.

Anyway I will cut to the chase as I am still tired from the show and this very poorly written review is a Testament to that.

Jerry's previous rope cut test with a Basic #9 made it to 1,254 cuts. This is truly amazing but the fact was that he video taped this test and he told me the reason they stopped at that count was because he was running out of video tape. Well for our test he did not need a video tape as I witnessed the entire test from start to finish.

How many cuts did we get?
2,771!
And we only stopped there because we ran out of rope!

After the 2,000th cut I was still able to shave my arm! At the 2,500 mark it lost the ability to shave but still sliced through paper really well. Lori took several pics of me shaving my arm and I will post those soon as well as the pics of the test.

Folks this is the most amazing thing I have ever scene when it comes to knives. During the test I wondered if the knife was actually just getting buffed by the rope. We even had hit the screws on the board at least 6 or so times. I was truly impressed and this has wet my appetite for a more complete test of the Basic line as soon a they ship.

I am tired and must get some sleep so look for more posts later.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
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Cobalt said:
Nozh, I have never seen a GW with a blade profile like that. The GW blade is short and wide, that looks longer and not as wide. Also, what did you do to the edge on that "knife". if your pic is correct you have a 3/8 inch primary angle which would make it somewhere in the 7-8 degree range.
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norcalblacktail said:
What kind of grind is that Vassilli?
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I think two people just hit the nail on the head, so to speak.

Both Cobalt and norcalblacktail have enought experience and familiarity with Busse knives to recognize a blade.

A shot of a small portion of some blade is hardly fair of calling something a Busse.

Let's see some reference shots of the blade and then some close-ups. Use some standard format for establishing reference.
 
I have been told that CPM 3V has a smaller grain size and therefore can take a keener edge than infi but that is just what I've been told. Speaking anecdotaly one of my 3V blades is the sharpest knife I own but that means n othing. I have also found that infi is far more corrosion resistant than 3V. Maybe infi ranks with D-2 or ATS-34. I agree with most everything else in this thread.
 
The thread is going a little OT:
It's the angle, waaaay to acute for anything other than a kitchen knife in my opinion. It will slice well, but I wouldn't take his GW to any hard use at all. On the positive side, a good kitchen knife at 11 degrees will chip if it hits something it doesn't like. His GW looks like a steel could fix most of the damage.
Vasalli is a sharpening guy, very into steels and getting the sharpest edge. I don't think he'd lie about the knife being a GW. He probably just put too much of an acute edge on the GW.

The Fherman vs Busse vs Swamp Rat/Scrapyard is a tough deal man...Pick whichever one you like and go for it! They're all great.
Me though? I'm a Busse guy.
 
Mr. Clean said:
The thread is going a little OT:
It's the angle, waaaay to acute for anything other than a kitchen knife in my opinion. It will slice well, but I wouldn't take his GW to any hard use at all. On the positive side, a good kitchen knife at 11 degrees will chip if it hits something it doesn't like. His GW looks like a steel could fix most of the damage.
Vasalli is a sharpening guy, very into steels and getting the sharpest edge. I don't think he'd lie about the knife being a GW. He probably just put too much of an acute edge on the GW.

The Fherman vs Busse vs Swamp Rat/Scrapyard is a tough deal man...Pick whichever one you like and go for it! They're all great.
Me though? I'm a Busse guy.
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I see no reason to think this is anything other than what Nozh claims, a Busse GW. Like the rest, my eyes tell me Nozh re-profiled the edge ... very severely. This is certain his right to do. Given his interest in very sharp edges, it is in fact what I would expect him to do.

The edge is now very thin. Depending on how it got that way, the thin edge might have experienced pretty extreme temperatures. I'm not surprised it would deform as it has.

This is why I don't take my edges down that far. :) If I did, I wouldn't expect the edge to be robust.
 
do not get me wrong, I am not trying to claim it wasn't a GW, just that the blade looks considerably less wide than normal, which leads me to believe that if it is indeed a GW it has been heavily modded. If that primary bevel is as big as it looks and from the width of the blade it is, then those deformations are almost not visible to the naked eye.
 
I don't like the finger grooves on Fehrman handles at all. But otherwise, why not, if you don't want to wait for a Busse. If you can wait, though, then I would do so. And have. Right now Busse has the NMSFNO up on their site. Excellent do-it-all type of hard use knife, 8" of blade. Delivery times shouldn't be too long with those - from a week or so to a couple of months at most, I should think. I got my two delivered to Finland in, what, was it six weeks from order? Something like that.

As for those pics Nozh posted, I'd say someone has taken their reprofiling a little bit too far on that GW. :D
 
Well, I know it's all been said pretty much now, but OldPhysics hit it spot on in his first post in the thread. Exactly the same as my findings.

I had a Fehrman First Strike, about similar in size to the Busse Fusion Steel Heart. The Ferhman was a seriously well made knife, great edge holding, chopped appropriately well for its size. Absolutely no complaints quality-wise at all here. It's a real shame the handle just didn't work for me. I had to work at the grip all the time to make the handle fit my hand. I even thought of grinding off the bump, but I sold it instead.

The FSH? Chopped better because it's heaver and fit it my hand perfectly, so I could just chop and not worry about holding the knife.

I didn't get either knife to show any signs of damage.

I really liked the Fehrman knife and wouldn't hesitate to recommend one; the handle fit is completely personal and I've heard others say it fits them better than Busse handles. Each to his own. Personally though, I definitely prefer my Busses.

Both makers stand behind their products. Eric Fehrman has nowhere near the forum presence of Jerry, although he is around, but neither maker will let you down any more than their knives will.
 
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