Busse or Fehrman knives?

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Cobalt said:
do not get me wrong, I am not trying to claim it wasn't a GW, just that the blade looks considerably less wide than normal, which leads me to believe that if it is indeed a GW it has been heavily modded. If that primary bevel is as big as it looks and from the width of the blade it is, then those deformations are almost not visible to the naked eye.
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Hmm. Very good point, but then you always have a better 'eye' for this than I do.

The further the knife departs from the maker's design, the more un-representative it becomes. But ... quite possibly a better slicer. :)
 
This is Busse Game Warden and I sharpen it to 30 degree. Original edge was I guess about 50 degree or something and very thick. Edge looks so wide because it was initially very thick and when I brings it to 30 degree it became wide, also I usually "convexing" edge shoulders it also add some width.

Busse-GameWarner-010.jpg


This is not reprofiled or any other way modified Busse, I just sharpen it to 30 degree. All Busses usually has very thick edge with big angle out of factory and after sharpening them to my standard degree - 30 for all knives, edge always looks thick.

And I use DMT for all this Busses - no any power tool (after I got D8XX).

Thanks, Vassili.

This is my Busse collection, just to show that I know what I am talking about. You may see all of them has wide edge and all 30 degree.

best-of-the-best-001.jpg


and this is my edge retention test results:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589139
 
Just want to add that we are talking about very tough knives here. Cliff stamp tested the Battlemistress and the Fehrman. The Battlemistress took a thousand times more abuse and he still has it, the Fehrman failed and was returned. So as far as toughness is concerned, there is no question as to which is tougher. As to edge holding, I have not seen cpm3v cut 2700+ pieces of 1 inch hemp rope, when someone does that live, then we can talk about it, till then INFI is still the leader in cutting as well.

Also, what you see below in the videos I have done with many different knives, including some made of 1095, 3v, D2, ats34, 440B, O1, 1080 forged, 52100, S5, L6, and of course INFI which is what you see in the videos. The only knives that did not break during these play sessions bending of the tip and torqueing of the edge aside from the INFI, which took no damage, was S5 and L6. Both of which took a permanent bend. Did I test a fehrman? no. However, custom 3V, did fail in this. Which only confirms Cliffs test. I'll say that many knives broke on impact after 20-30 throws. The knife in that video had probably 800 to 1000 throws, and I had another SHBM that had easily 15,000 throws with no damage. I did nick the edge once on this knife in te video, when it hit the rear spine of another SHBM I threw first and stuck in the wood.

Take your Fehrman and do what I did here and pry the tip out sideways. It was stuck in wood about 1.5 inches to 2 inches and in the last video you see me prying it out of very dense and wet wood from Virginia. After that, take your Fehrman and Hack into the wood with the edge and pry it out sideways and see if you leave a big chunk of steel. Most people will tell you to never do either of these things. I have done both countless times with many SHBM's and no damage. The Fehrman might make it, if you are willing to try it. it may not, but at least you will know if it is worthy of taking on extended treks. You have to know your equipments limitations







 
nozh2002 said:
Busse-GameWarner-010.jpg


This is not reprofiled or any other way modified Busse, I just sharpen it to 30 degree. All Busses usually has very thick edge with big angle out of factory and after sharpening them to my standard degree - 30 for all knives, edge always looks thick.
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I beg to differ. There is almost no ricasso left on that GW. The width of the blade is not what it was as you have taken off at least 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch in width. I call that reprofiled. Sorry. I have had edge work done on mine, and no one has gone that far. also how does a 1/4 inch of bevel on each side equate to 30 degrees? I have blades with less bevel that are 28-30 degrees. To me that looks closer to 20 degrees.
 
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Cobalt said:
I beg to differ. There is almost no ricasso left on that GW. The width of the blade is not what it was as you have taken off at least 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch in width. [/B]
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Actually, the width of the blade (or I guess I could say the height of the flat side of the blade) doesn't look off to me. I have a black/black Game Warden .200" that seems to have the same kind of blade width. Some Game Wardens seem to come out of the factory not quite so wide of blade as others. I have other GWs, like my urban / tan that is so much wider that it is easy to tell by naked eye without even having both knives out. But, as I've said before, there are large variations in the measurements of Busse knives. Thickness, width, even length seems to vary quite a lot from the official specifications - although the latter varies the least of those three.

That said, the edge on Nozh's GW looks way off to me.
 
Elen said:
Actually, the width of the blade (or I guess I could say the height of the flat side of the blade) doesn't look off to me. I have a black/black Game Warden .200" that seems to have the same kind of blade width. Some Game Wardens seem to come out of the factory not quite so wide of blade as others. I have other GWs, like my urban / tan that is so much wider that it is easy to tell by naked eye without even having both knives out. But, as I've said before, there are large variations in the measurements of Busse knives. Thickness, width, even length seems to vary quite a lot from the official specifications - although the latter varies the least of those three.

That said, the edge on Nozh's GW looks way off to me.
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could be. I don't have all of them, but the ones I have have more prominent ricasso. Also, the 30 degree angle may be correct depending on the thickness of that blade. If that is a fatty, then it is logical. Regardless, as my post above indicates, there is no comparison.
 
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nozh2002 said:
P.S. You can buy from Busse company store and get it right away. From Busse it will be several times longer then from Fehrman - if you need it now I will not suggest to order from their website - probably few months to wait. Also Fehrman has stable line of models to choose from, Busse doing only one model for half year (except for Company Store).
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I would disagree, at least from my experience. It took over a month to get a Fehrman and presently Busse seems to be churning out knives with a speed that they never had before. Of course, for instant gratification, the Busse Company Store won't disappoint, nor will ordering from a fellow forumite on the exchange.
 
I would say right now if you want a Busse NM SFNO, Skinny ASH-1, Bony Active Duty, or Sus Scrofa, the wait is 1-2 weeks.
 
I regularly take my knives down to 10 - 15 deg. I have a couple in the 5 - 10 deg range. Most of the time that doesn't cause any problems, except that you have to be careful with the tip once it gets thin. As Cliff was always fond of saying, geometry cuts. You have to match the steel and it's intended purpose to the knife. "Better" steels let you go thinner, if that's what you want. Harder steels will also. Sometimes you just have to get to where you do some damage until you find the limits of that steel, heat treat, and geometry. I've done that with D2.

I take my BAD's down much thinner than my regular AD, as they are harder. I use the regular AD's for wood, and the BAD's for hunting. Both work great.

I think it's worth pointing out that no steel will *never* be damaged, whether it be rolls, chips, or whatever. Any knife can be broken or damaged. My very first Busse was a Steelheart E. I still have it, it's one of my favorite camping knives. I tried a test when I got it in the mail - set a beer bottle cap on a 2x4 and chopped it in half with one stroke - it rippled the edge, with the factory bevel. It was easy enough to sharpen out on a stone, but that goes to show that if you exceed the limits, you will have damage, doesn't matter what the steel. I will also say that INFI is far less susceptible to damage than most other steels.

So yes, you can cut mild steel with it, but there will be some deformation - it's inevitable.

I've got both Fehrmans and Busses, and like them both. I think both are excellent steels that will last a lifetime if used sensibly.
 
To be honest - I did not try Fehrman on same wood. However saying that INFI has best edge retention is bit too match. Best edge retention has Dozier, from Busse clan - SR101 best steel for me I hope they will do GW out of it - GW is excellent working knife for home projects in terms of desin, I just like to see it with better edge holding steel, but INFI may be good for choppers - and I ask already

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=519275

As you see Jerry reply that some steel may be better in some properties:

Jerry Busse said:

INFI is superior across the board. Period.

There are steels that can surpass INFI in individual categories such as edge holding on soft media, stain resistance, etc. . . . but none that come remotely close to INFI when being compared across the board to the wide variety of categories that INFI excells at.

If there were such a steel or heat treat being used, I can assure you that the manufacturer using it would be anxious to prove it in LIVE demonstrations like we have.

I'd love to see the INFI tests performed with CPM S90V. . . :eek:. . . .Of course I would like to see this from behind some really thick lexan!!! :D

Thanks,

Jerry :D


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But I am dissappointed in his respond to this photoes I made. Here

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606355

Jerry Busse said:
The reprofiled edge on that knife is ridiculously thin and the statments made about INFI, based on this drastically altered edge, are completely irresponsible!!!. . . :eek:

If we thought that paper thin edges were the best performance geometry for INFI, we would be putting them on ourselves.

As for edge holding, we are still the only manufacturer to have cut over 2,700 pieces of 1 inch hemp rope in a "LIVE" demonstration at BLADE Show 1999. . . NO other manufacturer has even attempted to duplicate this test.

It's been almost 10 years of waiting. . . .

So, while we're waiting for this to happen. . . .

Let's Drink!!!! :thumbup:

Jerry :D



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I was hoping that it is something wrong with knife, but I guess it was my fault - I should not sharpen it the way as I sharpen all my knives with drastically altered paper thin edge (30 degree). This is how I did this for little different Busse - Active Duty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TscN9h-1xQ&feature=channel_page

Anyway - no biggy, I recently switch to Dozier KS-1 for my projects and very happy with it, I sharpent it to same drastically altered paper thin edge and so far it continue to surprize me with edge shaving (clean shave no hair behind) after cutting 2" stack of computer paper - 9 1/2" long cuts.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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dbltap45acp said:
Does anyone have a NM SFNO that is next to another Busse for size comparison?
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Someone will be along soon with a pic -- my camera is 'down' right now.

I'm staring at an NMSFNO right now. The blade is almost exactly as long as one of my FSHs (Fusion Steel Hearts). The NMSFNO blade has a different profile -- most especially, it is thinner along its length.
 
I say go with the original and best, get a Busse.

Do an internet search for Cliff Stamp's testing. The Battle Mistress took way more abuse than the Fehrman, and didn't break. The Fehrman broke just when he was getting started.....
 
when the blade is profiled too thin!! it will roll!! thats not edge retention that is lack of metal! before i modded my Comp Hellrazor, i thinned the blade out some! it was sharp ! so sharp!! but it would roll sometimes! in a convex edge all the micro edge has to rely on is the stregnth in its backing!!
 
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