busse vs custom

i was just curious,fellas. my personal needs from aknife are easily satisfied by becker and/or esse. my interest in knives is rather new and i admittedly don't know much.
thanks for your replys-even the rather angry ones.
 
so what is infi steel chem. comp.
or is it a more a HT liek cold steel has done

ether way hype is great for marketig and this thread dives more hype (more power to anyone that can drive a car this big :) )
 
Imagine returning a broken knife to a maker saying that you broke it by prying open a packing crate or car door - I imagine that most makers would indicate that their knives weren't made for that. Okay, Busse would replace the knife and thank you for using his knives as they were meant to be. I'd say that illustrates the niche I'm describing.

Most knives simply aren't being built with the expectation that they'd be used that way. They don't fill the same niche and I don't think they're trying to. Not to offend anyone here.

For typical knife uses, I think many custom makers are the top of their classes. For other uses like I describe, there may be custom makers out there as good or better, but Busse is one of the top performers.
 
Last edited:
I don't think Busse wants people to misuse knives (a fine way to get hurt), but you are paying for the option to really mistreat the knife and have it still be a knife. I'd agree that's a niche. One that Cold Steel also tried to appeal to in non-custom setting.
 
360joules said:
Imagine returning a broken knife to a maker saying that you broke it by prying open a packing crate or car door - I imagine that most makers would indicate that their knives weren't made for that. Okay, Busse would replace the knife and thank you for using his knives as they were meant to be. I'd say that illustrates the niche I'm describing.
Click to expand...

the knives i make for our service members i can dam well expect thats the type use they will get and i back it 100%
for people not serving there country i dont cover as they 99% of the time are just tiring to brake stuff or prove there ninja (i did ... with just my folder look at me im hard corp )


i make kitchen knives and razors too but they have there own different abuses
i beat the hell out of my knives so that i know what they can take and so that if ever i have one come back i know jsut what kind of a beatig that blade took before fail
 
Thanks for the reply Troy but I beg to differ as I believe most makers would stand behind their product no matter what the situation. I know I do. I don't question any of my customers requests for repairs. Thankfully I don't get many. Usually it's a handle scale or sheath issue. I had one customer, who is a police offier use one of my 1/8" thick knives to pry open a window and was happy to report it to me. I've heard some real use situations with my knives that have made me chringe to think the knife was used as such.
Big thick blades no matter what the steel type should be able to handle prying.
Not saying anything against Busse knives as I feel they are top performers but I don't think they are in a class by themselves. There are some damn good custom makers out there that make hardcore knives.
Scott
 
For my uses, Becker or ESEE are certainly stronger than I'll ever need, despite the fact that I use the holy living heck out of my knives. If I should ever manage to break one (unlikely), I would imagine I would be pretty well covered by the manufacturer. Almost a moot point, though; I've never even heard of anyone breaking a BK-2.

Why would I spend ten or twelve times as much just to get the Busse name on the blade? Doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Manassas dragon,
Intentional or not, as others have said, your question is very general and does not even begin to provide information sufficient for anyone here to give you a complete answer. In that regard, I will attempt to answer your question with the same tenor that you asked it.

The answer, quite simply, is this:

Some Busse knives are better than some custom made knives, and some custom made knives are better than some Busse knives. I hope this helps. :)
 
on_the_edge said:
Manassas dragon,
Intentional or not, as others have said, your question is very general and does not even begin to provide information sufficient for anyone here to give you a complete answer. In that regard, I will attempt to answer your question with the same tenor that you asked it.

The answer, quite simply, is this:

Some Busse knives are better than some custom made knives, and some custom made knives are better than some Busse knives. I hope this helps. :)
Click to expand...

And that's the truth, and answers the question fully.
 
I appreciate you guys' statements and wouldn't argue the strength of your knives as I have no first-hand knowledge of them. And I agree that Busse isn't in its own class. Busse is one knife maker in that class and the knives may or may not be the best - best really doesn't matter. The hype exists because Busse is an extremely good knife in that class and is available.

Scott, I can respectfully agree to disagree with you on the general warranties of most makers. Maybe I've been jaded by the common posts in forums about "not the proper use for a knife" and "incorrect batoning angle" and the like as discussion on why a knife wasn't warranted.

I do totally agree with you regarding knife thickness. IMO, the thicker a Busse the less advantage you get from the steel. A 3/8" thick stainless steel knife could probably out perform the leverage that my arms could throw at it. However, a 3/16" Busse can do amazing things - that's where the advantage is and the thinner ones are less expensive. ;)

Lloyd, I only mean to say this as a matter of customer perspective and mean no disrespect, but the reason I trust my Busse is that I've taken risks with their blades and they've surprised me. Your knives may be as good or better than theirs, but I wouldn't feel comfortable putting your knife at risk if it wasn't covered.

Obviously as I'm getting into knife making myself, I've concluded that Busse isn't the be-all-end-all for me. I just have something different in mind regarding design and function. I will build tough knives and back them up, but I couldn't imagine saying that my knives will perform as good as a Busse, I'm pretty certain that I'm way out of my league there in terms of processes and R&D resources.

DawsonBob,

It sounds to me like you've found a knife that meets your needs perfectly. I don't feel any compulsion to try to convince you otherwise.

Cheers all
 
I own Busse knives. I use Busse knives. I know custom makers who make hard core users who also lay out their own hard earned money on Busse knives. One maker was asked why, when he could make any style knife out there. He answered simply.........but it still would not be INFI.

There are way too many custom knife makers out there who produce absolutely stellar knives in stellar steel for me to ever limit my self to one manufacturer, or custom maker. Some great makersw have already posted here. I would not hesitate to buy a custom knife and use it hard. Any properly heat treated steel, from 1080 1095, 5160 on up to super steels will do just about anything you want it to do. Some will hold an edge longer, some will be stronger laterally, or for impact resistance, or have better corrosion resistance.

INFI steel is a great balance of all of these. It makes a great hard use steel.

There more than a double handfull of custom makers who's work tempts me daily!
 
This isn't meant to defend Busse (I don't think they need it) but I don't understand why Busse gets so much hostility.

I've never heard them make any claims regarding other makers or manufacturers or badmouth anybody. They have a proprietary steel and heat treat that they decided is the best that they could come up with and they stand by it. They have a variety of designs that still have a common "personality" just like many other makers/companies do. They have their own ideas on how to market their products, and I can understand that some people find this annoying, but they seem to be doing pretty well with it, and I guess it makes them happy. So why all the hate?

One thing I seem to remember is that they have a standing challenge to anyone who thinks their blade will outperform a Busse to meet in public and see who wins. With all the claims of hype, why aren't there tons of takers? I'll bet it would be a hell of a marketing tool to show that your knife beat a Busse, no?
 
Chris, very well said. :thumbup: Troy, this is totally true about what some makers cover as far as uses of their knives. Every maker is different, no doubt. I'm just defending the makers out there that are passionate enough about their work that will cover any issues that arise.
As far as Busse knives are concerned. There is no doubt they are top of the line hard use knives. I for one would love to own an original A2 steel Steelheart. I just don't have over a grand to spend on a knife. Just as Chris very nicely put, there are some very good if not excellent custom knives out there that can hold there own.
Scott
 
Well, all interesting stuff. The one question I ask again is hard use for what use ? But I think this has been answered. I get the idea for hacking, chopping , pry baring and all sorts of stuiff like that.. BUT definitely not hard use as a hunting knife. Would that INFI steel work great for that and make one of those an outstanding knife for that job? Use has a lot to do with what value the knife gives, and no, I don't make hunting knives or figure to use that amazing INFI steel. Frank
 
butcher_block said:
so what is infi steel chem. comp.
or is it a more a HT liek cold steel has done

ether way hype is great for marketig and this thread dives more hype (more power to anyone that can drive a car this big :) )
Click to expand...

It is both chemical composition and a very involved lenghty heat treat and cryo to bring out the best.

It should be noted, that the Busse group (Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat knives use different steels, and no matter what steel, they really get great performance from the steel! D2, Sr77- modified jackhammer steel, Sr101- modified 51200 I believe).

So it really is the heat treat that matters most. Any high performance steel can be ruined by a bad heat treat.

And even basic steels can perform great, if given a good heat treat.
 
Bigfattyt said:
It is both chemical composition and a very involved lenghty heat treat and cryo to bring out the best.

It should be noted, that the Busse group (Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat knives use different steels, and no matter what steel, they really get great performance from the steel! D2, Sr77- modified jackhammer steel, Sr101- modified 51200 I believe).

So it really is the heat treat that matters most. Any high performance steel can be ruined by a bad heat treat.

And even basic steels can perform great, if given a good heat treat.
Click to expand...

and thats the part that gripes my ass the most when a production house takes a steel that every one can get and then say its a special HT and call the steel its self a different name
carbonV
silversteel
are 2 off the top of my head
and i was not sure if infi was one of those deals or not (i know ppl that do have custom melts so they get jsut what they want )
edit to add im not bashing i jsut dont care for this type of marketing one day i ll get a infi blade and brake it jsut to see hell its covered right :)
 
V 0.36% Vanadium
Cr 8.25% Chrome
Fe 87.79% Iron
Co 0.95% Cobalt
Ni 0.74% Nickel
Mo 1.3% Molybdenum
C 0.5% Carbon
N 0.11% Nitrogen
Click to expand...

butcher_block said:
and thats the part that gripes my ass the most when a production house takes a steel that every one can get and then say its a special HT and call the steel its self a different name
carbonV
silversteel
are 2 off the top of my head
and i was not sure if infi was one of those deals or not (i know ppl that do have custom melts so they get jsut what they want )
edit to add im not bashing i jsut dont care for this type of marketing one day i ll get a infi blade and brake it jsut to see hell its covered right :)
Click to expand...

Are you a little drunk this afternoon? :D I don't remember ever seeing you have so many typos. Busse has made public the compostion of INFI. Its specialness is in the heat treat IMO. I am amazed at how well if avoids stains, maintains an edge through use and then resharpens easily. I am a cool aid drinker but I don't understand the hatred either. :confused: I bet there are a lot of custom makers that could make an equally tough chopper. That level of quality, probably forged, will not IMO be cheaper than INFI though. YMMV
 
Here is the spec. sheet for INFI.
C=0.50
CR=8.25
MO=1.30
V=0.36
CO=0.95
NI=0.74
N=0.11
It appears to be similar to a carpenter steel called Micro-Melt CD1. Composition is very similar with the main difference being the addition of approx. 1 point of cobalt in the INFI. Carpenter advertises the Micro-Melt CD1 as being a shock resistant coldwork die steel with a combination of high wear resistance and extreme toughness. Maybe some of the metallurgist's and machinist's can shed some light on the effect 1 point of cobalt would have on this alloy. If it truly is that good for a blade steel then it is just a matter of time before custom makers start using it. And the difference between factory and custom knives is custom makers can make a knife exactly the way you specify with the steel you specify. Even if a steel is not readily available to custom makers if it proves to be a worthwhile steel it will be available sooner or later.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top