Camillus Bank Liquidation

I totally agree with ww2bill except for:

They are hoping that the strike can be settled. If the strike can be settled bank will still work with Camillus. There is still some hope that this company can keep going but the strike must end very quickly. If not bank will not have any choice.

There are no talks - no efforts whatsoever - to settle with the union. What's more is that with most all of the "regular" customers gone, even if we did settle, only a handful of workers are needed. It looks like the bank is trying to pay down the amount owed to them through Camillus' debt and then have the auction to cut their losses once and for all. That's my take anyways.
 
tough to negotiate when the union went in with demands for wage increases. There seems to be a missunderstanding of the negotiation issues. When a company is going broke a smart union (and there are several of them) would step in and find ways to keep the company alive. This union's representatives are still living in the dark ages, and went in with demands for wage increases and other benefits. How can anyone negotiate with that? And the union's grandstanding that they came back with even higher concessions than the company requested is a bunch of bull. Most of the "concessions" consisted of reducing salaried workforce and wages. Whoever was leading these negotiations is still living in the past. The company's management screwed up, granted. Bad decisions, incompetence, and greed. However the same applies to the union, and the bank. No one is clean in this mess. Camillus will die, unfortunately, because everyone is looking out for themselves rather than getting their heads together to save the company. The sad thing is that the employees (hourly and salaried) will lose the job. The crime is that the union leader managing the botched up contract negotiation will not. He will still be there to go kill another company.
 
It's too bad that the so many will have to suffer for so few. I've moved on but part of me still lives and breathes Camillus Cutlery and I have a hard time letting go of something that was a huge part of my life. I'm not saying that I would go back, but I probably would have not left if there was hope and appreciation. My new job is unbelieveable and I wish that I could bring all of my true friends and co-workers with me. I miss almost everyone!! I'm working for less but it is for so much more. More in technology, integrity, and the many perks that they offer their people, ( their assets ). They are holding an annual appreciation, award day for their employees Sept. 8th. (something totally unheard of for camillus. For me, there will only be improvement. I'll strive to give my best as always, but in a new field. A PROMISING ONE. I wanted you to know that there are some that have moved on for the better, in time the past will be distant.
I have heard that Utica Cutlery is interested in the Camillus name but this will prove to be nothing for the workers most likely.
 
I don't really care about Camillus----but I would like to see the Becker line continue-----the rest of the Camillus products are "uninteresting".
 
The "interesting", at least to me, were the Pilot Survival Knife and the "USMC" Fighting/Utility knife (hard for me to call it that since I'm retired "ARMY"!). These are great knives that I carried for a lot of years. Glad I still have them, they have a lot of sentimentality.
 
I find the Becker line "uninteresting"----but I would like to see Camillus continue. I care about the company and the workers, and what they represent to the American cutlery manufacturing industry. Most of what Camillus makes, the public doesn't see under the Camillus mark.

Codger
 
I care about yet another american name going down the crapper. From what I've read on this thread, the workers at Camillus truly cared about making a quality product and were proud of the work they did. Makes me wish I had put up more support and purchaced more of their products when I had the chance.
 
There are some knives I personally don't care for, Blaze, Sizzle, Heat.... whatever. But it doesn't matter. I still like Camillus knives.
And just as Schrade was, it's a tradition, something we grew up with.
And I hate it when tradition dies....................
 
Better start studying Mandarin! The Chinese are buying up American debt with their truckloads of excess dollars. They are our future bankers. Ok, too serious..sorry:barf:
 
knifeintheheart,
Mind if I pick apart your comments?

tough to negotiate when the union went in with demands for wage increases. There seems to be a missunderstanding of the negotiation issues.
If one were to look up the word negotiate in the dictionary, one would find that it is a series of give and take on both parties. IMHO, that is how EVERY negotiation has always been. Not too many years ago, the company wanted over $5.00/hr in concessions. They settled by giving us a substantial raise at the last minute.
When a company is going broke a smart union (and there are several of them) would step in and find ways to keep the company alive.
The union agreed to every idea the company asked them to try to help save themselves, including a four day work week, lean manufacturing, turning the heat down to 60 degrees in the winter (most Monday mornings it was barely 50) where most workers had their coats on all day, extending the contract unchanged for 2 or 3 years. These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more if I gave it some more thought. We went from one M.D. who would listen to ideas and then say no to another M.D. who just said no. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.
The rest I have to say, in all honesty, I pretty much agree with. Looking back, there are a number of things that should have been done differently on everyone's part but you can't change the past.
 
Now...if Randall could just make use of that production capacity... lead times might drop a bit? Maybe QC too, so better reconsider?
 
this is probley a stupid question but are our warrinties no good any more i have a cuda maxx that does not lock up right and the lady said they been having laber problems and to get back to her in two weeks thanks for any responce :confused:
 
this might be a stupid question but is there warrinties no good then ive been calling this lady about my cudamaxx not locking it should she keeps telling me to call her back after this union thing ? thanks for any responce and if not do you guys no who could fix it. it,s it does not lock up tight unless you push the framelock over as far as you can and then its not real tight i already changed the stud no help
 
Don't count on it. I'll let one of our attorney knife knuts answer this one in detail, but IMHO, the warranty is a liability that remains with the company (new owner if sold) UNLESS they go through a bankruptcy proceeding. In that case all bets are off on warranties as liablities such as that are discharged in court. Again, I'm not a lawyer so it's just my opinion. Any experts out there can help further?

Good luck.
 
http://www.news10now.com/content/all_news/?ArID=78359&SecID=83


4:31 pm

Unfair labor charges against Camillus Cutlery dropped
Updated: 9/2/2006 9:56 AM
By: Staff

Unfair labor practice charges against Camillus Cutlery have been dropped. The announcement comes almost two weeks after the National Labor Relations Board ruled that the charges against the company were without merit.

Almost 80 workers have been on strike at the plant since May. The United Steel Workers Union filed charges that Camillus Cutlery bargained in bad faith three times since then. Camillus Cutlery officials say there is still work to be done and they are willing to work with the union for a more productive bargaining relationship.
 
Codger; I don't know for sure, but I'd bet the "dropped charges" could be part of a deal to keep any buyer out there on the line. A potential buyer is not likely to move forward to buy a company with litigation hanging over it's head. This could be possibly construed as a negotiated concession by the union.......or not.

Paul
 
You may be right Sheathmaker, though the article on the news did say that the charges were ruled by the NLRB to be without merit.

If I am correct, "Camillus Cutlery officials..." is now an appointee of the bank, not a selected representative of and by the private owners. Four months of downsizing, lost markets, consumer angst, bad publicity, hush-hush management policy are bound to be taking their toll.

I still hold hope for the company's future, as I did until the day of the ISC liquidation auction. It isn't over until the auctioneer sings. A great old-line cutlery may yet survive, though in what form, under whose ownersihip, I haven't a clue.

Codger
 
omaha-beenglockin said:
I don't really care about Camillus----but I would like to see the Becker line continue-----the rest of the Camillus products are "uninteresting".

I don't really care about the Becker line, I find tacticals "uninteresting". If Camillus would have kept up with Case and Queen, and continued to make a high quality traditional bone handled folder instead of the delrin stuff, maybe they would have been in better shape. Same thing happened to Schrade, they got away from the traditional folders and too much into the tacticals and imitation handles, and they're gone too now. Case and Queen must be doing something right, they stay with traditional patterns and handle materials. Canal Street Cutlery has the right idea, they are making a great product in a part of the old Schrade factory, traditional patterns and natural bone handles. From what I understand they are some of the old Schrade master cutlers making them, are using some of the old Schrade equipment.

Dan
 
knifeintheheart,
Mind if I pick apart your comments?


If one were to look up the word negotiate in the dictionary, one would find that it is a series of give and take on both parties. IMHO, that is how EVERY negotiation has always been. Not too many years ago, the company wanted over $5.00/hr in concessions. They settled by giving us a substantial raise at the last minute.

The union agreed to every idea the company asked them to try to help save themselves, including a four day work week, lean manufacturing, turning the heat down to 60 degrees in the winter (most Monday mornings it was barely 50) where most workers had their coats on all day, extending the contract unchanged for 2 or 3 years. These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more if I gave it some more thought. We went from one M.D. who would listen to ideas and then say no to another M.D. who just said no. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.
The rest I have to say, in all honesty, I pretty much agree with. Looking back, there are a number of things that should have been done differently on everyone's part but you can't change the past.

Knifeworker,
let me clarify something. I totally agree about what the workers did to help the company. And let's not forget the special sale staffed by the workers on their own time. The workers are what made Camillus Cutlery what it was. When I talk about UNION, I really mean the regional and national people...the UNION management, sort of speak. The ones that do not work in the plant. The ones that take over the negotiations at the expense of the workers, and then leave in their new, union paid cars. There is a definite difference between plant representatives and the other fools with a track record for killing companies. The strike was not an economic strike, but an UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE strike. The NLRB found it to be without merit, but it had to wait 45 days for the determination. In other words, the employees went on strike for nothing. I read in the paper that the company asked for a 40% concession in wages. Not true. The only one that was getting that type of cut was the union president, who was getting paid almost $20/hr doing a job that pays $10.50.
A potential buyer put in an offer in March before the strike, and the UPPER UNION (Jimmy V.) sued the company for Unfair Labor Practices by naming the potential buyer an agent of management, hired to coherce and intimidate employees against the union. The potential buyer was only doing due diligence required to make the purchase. This forced the buyer to stay out of the facility, then the strike, and the deal crashed. The Union (Jimmy V.) killed the only opportunity Camillus had to change owners without skipping a beat. Now, the NLRB found no merit on the charges, but really there is no business left to buy. Again, I want to make sure that it is understood that the PLANT union members wanted to do the right thing, but the OUTSIDE union leadership busted right in with their 1947 mentality, thus killing the business. What they did was criminal. They went into negotiation with wage increases, more vacation and time off, and even demanded weekly gas allowance. There never was any negotiation. The union negotiation leader (Jimmy V.) never even attempted to negotiate the companies request for concession. All he did was push his demands, and then accused management with unwillingness to negotiate. Irresponsible. The employees, the community, the customers, suppliers, the whole knife business and America in general lost a lot by this irresponsible behavior.

Granted, management drove the company into the quicksand, but the union leadership bit the hand that would have pulled the company to safety, and set up roadblocks preventing anyone else from doing so.

When the NLRB, who is pro-union, finds that there was no merit to the union charges, one needs to start asking questions about what was the union thinking to behave this way at this critical time. The people were Camillus, and now they are gone. Goodbye Camillus.
 
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