Can China made produce a good blade?

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Boats said:
No matter the capability, lots of buyers don't trust they will get what is claimed from some company from a country with, let's be polite, and say a "wildly uneven" manufacturing reputation generally.
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Why can't you and these other buyers listen to those of us who have "taken the plunge" and have come back with extremely high praise for certain China-based knife companies? There are a lot of us, and a lot of us know what the hell we're talking about when it comes to knives.

Just to give an example, Jim Skelton has probably handled a million dollars' worth of customs knives (wild guess, but you know what I mean). Check out some of his reviews of Reate's knives or his review of a Stedemon knife: https://www.youtube.com/user/JimSkeltonKnives/search?query=reate. Or check out a Kizer knife review by Blade Forums' own austonh, who knows a ton about knives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS6nR86FP5w

These are people with a lot of experience telling you that these companies are making super high quality stuff. It's a completely different world from the manufacturers that are making stuff to US knife companies' specs with shoddy materials at ridiculously low price points.
 
These people don't want to listen to us. They want to live in their own little dream world where a Chinese manufacturer simply cannot make a quality knife. Best to just let them go and keep buying Chinese-produced quality cutlery with a big smile on your face and likely more money in your pocket at the end of the day than in there's. That's my plan.

Never forget. He who laughs last laughs best! :D
 
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Boats said:
PRC knife makers ripping off PATENTED designs and design elements are facts.
The PRC being a leading source of wholly counterfeited knives is a fact.
Trying to slip non spec steel past Byrd/Spyderco was a fact.
Buck not getting what they paid for was a fact that ended most of their offshoring effort in the PRC.

People weight different facts differently.
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We're really bent on going off topic huh.

Didn't you just post an essay type reply to me saying that no one is doing exactly what you just posted?

Yes those are facts. Does it answer the OP's question. Why do smart people like you ALSO have to be so dense? :p

Boats, you need to open a thread regarding why you shouldn't buy and support Chinese. There I can show you that we are on the same page. You might be surprised. But....This is not the place.
 
bld522 said:
It's OK. This is a VERY touchy subject and there are lots of good reasons APART FROM THE KNIVES THEMSELVES for why some people feel the way they do. I'm just simply trying to parse out the FEELINGS from the FACTS! And boy is that ever an uphill battle.
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The problem is the OP asked about a good knife, not a quality knife. Which is a more complicated question.

I would argue that a makers' ethos has nothing to do with the quality of a knife, but has much to do with the cost of the knife. Cost plays a role is a knife's worth, and a knife's worth determines if its any good. For instance I no longer think the BM Grip series are good knives since the price jumps.

Yes, I know I'm being a pedant.
 
Boats said:
PRC knife makers ripping off PATENTED designs and design elements are facts.
The PRC being a leading source of wholly counterfeited knives is a fact.
Trying to slip non spec steel past Byrd/Spyderco was a fact.
Buck not getting what they paid for was a fact that ended most of their offshoring effort in the PRC.

People weight different facts differently.
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An honest question here. What patented designs have they ripped off? I could not verify that a CRK Sebenza has any and we all know it is copied a lot ranging from fooled you to wtf. I know there has to be some and a list of them would be awesome for everyone else. If its not patented and copied, that's on the original designer IMO. Business is business and even USA companies copy things with no patents. It happens.
 
Stays Sharp said:
I'm not here to sway the trust factor, that's not my fight here but define "lots" of buyers. From what I see, "lots" of buyers can care less where a product is made and fill their houses up with up to 100% China made from appliances to shoes. That's some strong MIStrust there on where they place there money and how they vote with their wallets. For every outspoken "buy USA only blades" guy out there, there seems to be more people who continue to make knives like the Tenacious a bestseller.
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I'm not a "Team USA" buyer. My cheapest knives are from France, Sweden, and Switzerland. I'm never going to buy an "Opinet," or a "Duck Duck," or a "Chinese Army Knife" from a PRC firm.

I am also not going to rule out ever buying a Kizer or a Reate either,. As I have said before, I am not going to be a guinea pig, nor am I going to buy something from either while they are still putting out laughably imitative and derivative stuff either. In this sense, collaborating with known designers is a step in the right direction and away from thinly disguised in house design theft and "inspired by" knock-offs. Kudos for that move.

I like my Apple designed and PRC produced iPad that I am writing this on. I'm not in that place on PRC knives yet precisely because of design and ethics considerations that are not emotionally, but practically driven by my desire to hold onto my money until someone there meets my standards for a purchase.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Ahh museums. What did you see? Can you buy them? Are they readily available outside of China? What's the market for this artisan craft of museum pieces? Are these folders? Or long swords, broadswords...Yeah maybe OP should have been more clear. I think China is over bladecraft and they are enjoying developing modern weapons. They have a long museum history with gunpowder as well BTW Im sure you know.

If you are talking about ancient dynastic China, that's def not the discussion here but indeed, it is an irony what people say about their blades here if you consider what they have accomplished in the past. Then again, it's two different planets of discussion.
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The blacksmith didn't go extinct. That I can assure you. Some families that have produced those early examples are still producing high quality pieces today. Much in the way Japan does today still. Just because you don't see them in our markets doesn't mean they don't exist. They just have no interest in the industrialized market you speak of. For those who aren't aware, do a search on "Knife Money".

Pakistan was brought up, but much of what is now considered China after the Olympics used to be the autonomous regions of Tibet. Some of he finest examples of craftsmanship in the last 100 years came
From there. Shame most are gone, but there are a few still going very well under the radar. If they were caught they would be killed.

Lest us not forget that China doesn't boast the same economic system or internet we use either.
 
Boats said:
That's the scary thing on what bld has been harping on. It's becoming that (in his case and to some others) it isn't merely to save money anymore and more like a competitive option. No matter the mistrust, hate... It is there, and a quick visit to the Reate forum shows that there are people who really think of these highly.
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With very good reason! And yes, I do consider Reates and Kizers competitive options. In fact, I bought a Kizer Splinter instead of a ZT 0450 recently because I considered it a competitive option. And I still do. Not only that, I saved over $40 in the process. Am I laughing? Heartily!
 
Boats said:
Sorry for screwing up a quote. I didn't write that quote attributed to me now.
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Not a bad quote and worth addressing regardless of who said it. And don't ungird your loins. Unless I miss my guess, companies like Kizer and Reate and Stedemon are just the beginning.
 
Boris74 said:
An honest question here. What patented designs have they ripped off? I could not verify that a CRK Sebenza has any and we all know it is copied a lot ranging from fooled you to wtf. I know there has to be some and a list of them would be awesome for everyone else. If its not patented and copied, that's on the original designer IMO. Business is business and even USA companies copy things with no patents. It happens.
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There's an unlicensed rip off of the Emerson wave very early in this thread for one.
 
bld522 said:
Not a bad quote and worth addressing regardless of who said it. And don't ungird your loins. Unless I miss my guess, companies like Kizer and Reate and Stedemon are just the beginning.
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It was Stays Sharp who said it. Just trying to keep things accurate.
 
Boris74 said:
An honest question here. What patented designs have they ripped off? I could not verify that a CRK Sebenza has any and we all know it is copied a lot ranging from fooled you to wtf. I know there has to be some and a list of them would be awesome for everyone else. If its not patented and copied, that's on the original designer IMO. Business is business and even USA companies copy things with no patents. It happens.
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Axis lock is another one, the compression lock and opening hole as well assuming "Navy" is still around ripping off Spydies and BMs.
 
bld522 said:
Not a bad quote and worth addressing regardless of who said it. And don't ungird your loins. Unless I miss my guess, companies like Kizer and Reate and Stedemon are just the beginning.
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And I have no problem with that as their track record develops and I'm not expected to buy something imitative just because it's cheaper.

Looking at most of Kizer's and Reate's production ATM, it's way too many right hand oriented frame locks and flipper blades. Got no use for either feature.
 
Boats said:
There's an unlicensed rip off of the Emerson wave very early in this thread for one.
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That was added by the user. A 3-second google search of the knife's model number (clearly visible in the photo you mentioned) would have revealed that to you.
 
Ok. Now that we have established (I think) that they are more than capable of producing anything... We have done all that we could in this thread.The rest will be mudslinging and going in circles.

Competition is one thing, but that's when everyone is playing fair. Manipulating exchange rates, can't sue for copyright infringement... Do they deserve our money? A highly individual proposition. Yeah there is a lot to this. We should refrain from discussing why that may be dangerous to our economy etc... In this thread at least.
 
Boats said:
Looking at most of Kizer's and Reate's production ATM, it's way too many right hand oriented frame locks and flipper blades. Got no use for either feature.
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So...just because something doesn't suit you're preferred knife style, it becomes an uninspired rip-off? Huh?
 
Stays Sharp said:
Ok. Now that we have established (I think) that they are more than capable of producing anything... We have done all that we could in this thread.The rest will be mudslinging and going in circles.

Competition is one thing, but that's when everyone is playing fair. Manipulating exchange rates, can't sue for copyright infringement... Do they deserve our money? A highly individual proposition. Yeah there is a lot to this. We should refrain from discussing why that may be dangerous to our economy etc... In this thread at least.
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I agree completely. We've answered the OP with a resounding "Yes"...but it can be a minefield. Feel free to ask those (with experience) for feedback on quality Chinese knives.

Close the thread now :cool:
 
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