Can China made produce a good blade?

[Stays Sharp]

Such a logical fallacy is known as a false equivalence and a red herring, a not so good attempt at avoiding answering the question asked, so I'll repeat the question for you should you actually care to answer it this time.

Who here feeds their dog(s) Chinese dog food and Chinese dog treats? What's not to trust?

You've been dishing those out as well as anyone on this thread smh. Biggest red herring of all is bringing up dog food on this knife discussion. Dog doodoo.


There is no reason at all to buy Chinese petfood as much as there is none to buy Chinese bacon or orange juice. We have them at home from US companies at reasonable prices. Try again, I know you will.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Getting desperate. Ive never been in a debate where someone resorted to dogfood lmao. Then when it backfires (domestic petfood recalls outnumber foreign ones, look it up) be cries foul. Boohoo.

 

[Hackenslash]

I inadvertently posted that Mexico is the worlds largest importer of flat screen TVs. Mexico is the worlds largest exporter of flat screen TVs. I corrected that typo.

I'm fairly certain that Mexico doesn't actually "make" flat panel TV's; they assemble them. Being the largest exporter is merely a technicality, the key guts come from somewhere else and usually that somewhere else is China. Although, on a side note, there is a small company in Detroit making a go at US made Flat Panels.

To all the Chinese knife bashers...please realize there's no way you'll ever win this argument. You essentially have to prove that there are no quality knives produced in China; an impossible task. Give up the wide ranging, straw man attacks and just choose to not buy them for personal reasons. There are good and bad examples of knives made in every locale but thinking to prove an exclusive negative is delusional. Your personal reasons are valid but your logical reasons are not.

I've had some really crappy knives that were made in China, but then again I've had some US manufactured Spydercos that I consider kinda crappy based on the quality F/F vs. price. On the other hand some of the nicest knives I own were made in China. I avoid the Chinese counterfeiters and the crappy M-techs and the like. I buy and enjoy the Kizers, Reates, RealSteels and other brands that have proven themselves by IN HAND USE (my own hand, btw, not some unknown, he-said-third-party). I encourage you to check them out and try them.

On the question that was raised about servicing a Chinese knife; last time I checked Kizer was working on having a service center set up in the US (west coast, I think). If I recall correctly, they were hoping for a 4Q15 opening date. Reate has demonstrated repeatedly that you can at least get spare parts from them, in fact their knives now ship with a little baggy of spare parts. I can't really speak for the other companies. But understand this...that's why I expect to pay less for a Chinese blade. I accept some degree of the responsibility to maintain them. That's largely the reason why I objected to the pricing on the Reate Horizon D series; too much money without a proven, local service center.

 

[leghog]

There is no reason at all to buy Chinese petfood as much as there is none to buy Chinese bacon or orange juice. We have them at home from US companies at reasonable prices.

There is no reason at all to buy Chinese knives as much as there is none to buy Chinese bacon or orange juice. We have them at home from US companies at reasonable prices.

See, turn about is fair play.

So would you and do you trust Chinese pet food and treats for your pets? Simple question. Yes or no will easily suffice, b will you answer? I doubt it. You trust Chinese manufacturing, don't you?

Getting desperate. Ive never been in a debate where someone resorted to dogfood lmao. Then when it backfires (domestic petfood recalls outnumber foreign ones, look it up) be cries foul. Boohoo.

You either trust Chinese manufacturing or you don't.

 

[bld522]

I'm not saying it is impossible to get a useable knife from China but generally the knives are sub par, in my experience (I know you tell us your experience is different). You seem to be happy enough buying them and I have my reasons for not buying them, we will have to just leave it at that.

Agreed, I just hope you don't continue to base your opinion of the entire cutlery output of a nation of 1.4B people on your experience of three $18 knives. And I'm sure glad folks like Matt Cucchiara and Ray Laconico and Todd Begg have enough room in their realities for improvements in methods and materials coming out of Chinese manufacturers that they're willing to trust their production knives to them, room which you apparently don't have in yours.

Do let me know if you decide to step outside and get a whiff of the global economy. Like the cosmos, it's all around you. And you're a participant in it whether you like it or not.

 

[leghog]

I'm fairly certain that Mexico doesn't actually "make" flat panel TV's; they assemble them. Being the largest exporter is merely a technicality, the key guts come from somewhere else and usually that somewhere else is China.

Just as likely Taiwan, South Korea, or other Asian countries as it is the People's Republic of China.

To all the Chinese knife bashers...please realize there's no way you'll ever win this argument.

There's no argument to win or lose. You either trust Chinese manufacturing or you do not. I don't. There are a few other nations whose manufacturing I don't trust either. The People's Republic of China is one. If there is a product alternative to products from those few nations, I'll always select the alternative(s).


We each chose where we put our money and who we trust. We each must live with the consequences of those decisions.

 

[Stays Sharp]

There is no reason at all to buy Chinese knives as much as there is none to buy Chinese bacon or orange juice. We have them at home from US companies at reasonable prices.

See, turn about is fair play.

So would you and do you trust Chinese pet food and treats for your pets? Simple question. Yes or no will easily suffice, b will you answer? I doubt it. You trust Chinese manufacturing, don't you?




You either trust Chinese manufacturing or you don't.

But if you stay on topic, what are we left with? Either they are capable or they are not. That's all I'm after. Pro or con China is for a different debate and you would see that we are widely on the same page in that regard.

 

[Topcatpt]

Bottom line can china make a good knife yes. There are quite a few companies that have proven this. The rest is all political and business practice related(I myself do not think China is awesome lol). China produces some nice knives and alot of junk knives. Is what it is they have the manufacturing abilities to do it.

 

[AreBeeBee]

Well, you know, made-in-Japan had exactly the same reputation in the 1950s as made-in-China does now. And it was deserved, as there was a load of junky, imitative stuff made over there simply because it was cheap to manufacture. The market got what it demanded.

And then the Japanese got really good, and (for example) destroyed both the American and German camera industries.

China can produce excellent cutlery whenever the customer demands it and supervises the QC closely. But that raises the price, and BLD522's comments are on target regarding the current market acceptability of high-priced Chinese goods. Short version: Not yet.

But some day, and probably sooner than you think. Right now, American manufacturers have among Chinese customers a reputation for quality goods. We'd be foolish to assume that will remain indefinitely.

 

[Hackenslash]

Just as likely Taiwan, South Korea, or other Asian countries as it is the People's Republic of China.

Lol, even when someone shows a statement you made was incorrect, you divert and try to cling to a shred of accuracy.

I completely understand your personal level of trust. I support you in your decision to not buy. Understand, your decision is personal for you and not based on logical, objective experience with quality knives from China. I think that's the only point the Chinese knife supporters are trying to make in this thread. You have stated over and over that, from a personal standpoint, you don't have enough trust to purchase products from China. That's fine and perfectly valid for you but it goes nowhere in determining if quality blades can be produced in China. Make sense? Unfortunately, US knifemakers who lead our industry have enough trust and you're in danger of missing out on an incredible window of opportunity to get some one-of-kind blades.

Back on topic. I've been looking at three different oft recommended low cost blades; the Ontario RAT 1, the ESEE Avispa and the RealSteel H6 (both Blue Sheep and S1 flavors). The Ontario and ESEE are usually held up as exampes of high value Taiwanese manufacturing, but after a period of using all four blades I honestly have to say the Chinese RealSteal beats them both. If I can find some time I'm going to post a little review here showing some of the performance issues with the Taiwanese blades. I was honestly kind of shocked at the lock rock and wear on the Avispa in particular.

 

[leghog]

(I myself do not think China is awesome lol).

No worries. There are a couple here who will pick up your slack.

 

[Haze]

What is this supposed to mean exactly ? I have lived in Taiwan for 10 years. I have been involved in knife groups all over Asia and have been involved in knife making for a long time. I actually know what I'm talking about.....you, not even close.

Agreed, I just hope you don't continue to base your opinion of the entire cutlery output of a nation of 1.4B people on your experience of three $18 knives. And I'm sure glad folks like Matt Cucchiara and Ray Laconico and Todd Begg have enough room in their realities for improvements in methods and materials coming out of Chinese manufacturers that they're willing to trust their production knives to them, room which you apparently don't have in yours.

Do let me know if you decide to step outside and get a whiff of the global economy. Like the cosmos, it's all around you. And you're a participant in it whether you like it or not.

 

[leghog]

Lol, even when someone shows a statement you made was incorrect, you divert and try to cling to a shred of accuracy.

Buy as many Chinese products you choose. Buy to your hearts content. Your choice. Others choose differently. I have noticed no one here claiming they knowingly feed there pets Chinese pet food. They simply avoid the question - several times. But why wouldn't they feed their pets Chinese pet food. Certainly Chinese products and Chinese manufacturing are trustworthy.

 

[Hackenslash]

Buy as many Chinese products you choose. Buy to your hearts content. Your choice. Others choose differently. I have noticed no one here claiming they knowingly feed there pets Chinese pet food. They simply avoid the question - several times. But why wouldn't they feed their pets Chinese pet food. Certainly Chinese products and Chinese manufacturing are trustworthy.

Dude, I don't even know where to find Chinese pet food. This thread is about knives. If I was considering buying Chinese pet food, I'd research it and make an informed decision. I certainly wouldn't buy pet food based on knowledge of knives...and vice versa.

 

[Boris74]

What is this supposed to mean exactly ? I have lived in Taiwan for 10 years. I have been involved in knife groups all over Asia and have been involved in knife making for a long time. I actually know what I'm talking about.....you, not even close.

Then it comes around to what you're saying isn't matching up very well with the knives people have in hand and use that come from China. So you scratch your head thinking why no one believes you and we scratch ours thinking you must have had a bad streak of luck or something, because these blades sure don't meet the hazardous alloy junk we are being told they are by several people.

 

[bld522]

What is this supposed to mean exactly ? I have lived in Taiwan for 10 years. I have been involved in knife groups all over Asia and have been involved in knife making for a long time. I actually know what I'm talking about.....you, not even close.

And I'm supposed to trust your opinion over the business decisions of some of the finest knife designers on the planet? Please!

 

[Haze]

You didn't answer my question.

And I'm supposed to trust your opinion over the business decisions of three of the best knife designers on the planet? Please!

If/when they regret those descisions you'll be the first to tell about though, eh ?

 

[Hackenslash]

What is this supposed to mean exactly ? I have lived in Taiwan for 10 years. I have been involved in knife groups all over Asia and have been involved in knife making for a long time. I actually know what I'm talking about.....you, not even close.

Haze, I respect your personal experience and appreciate what you've shared with this discussion. I think this "Chinese Spring" for knives is fairly recent. I think most of the good examples of Chinese knives have been around for less than 5 years, so I'm certain your first hand experience is completely valid just perhaps not applicable to current production. Affordable CNC is a fairly recent thing also.

I don't think I could go back to pre-2005 and find Chinese knives that I felt were worthy of purchase or support, in fact I think the roots of quality Chinese knives lay in the US companies setting up facilities there. Much of the early growth came in the form of copies and rip-offs, but a segment of that spin off industry has matured to produce quality, original knives.

These quality, high-value Chinese offerings ARE a recent thing and I encourage you to check them out.

 

[bld522]

Old news. You really DO need to get out more.

 

[Thalestin]

I think there are quality knives out of China but I dont personally buy them. I prefer to buy my knives from the USA, Japan etc just because I perceive them as better . These days I don't buy many knives anyways and have been buying hand made customs. Would I buy a custom from China? Probably not just because I would be worried about a scam etc