Can China made produce a good blade?

[bld522]

Well, I disagree a bit. I think it says something to have the steel made in the same country the knife is made. That says a little something to me about the health of a country's knife manufacturing abilities. I am sort of surprised China hasn't come up with their own versions of the better steels out there for manufacture in their own country. I mean, they've done everything else, why not that? I can guess some of the obvious reasons but it has to be costly to import s35vn and the like.

Could just be a matter of time. I suspect the high-end cutlery industry in China is still in its fledgling stage. But if companies like Kizer and Reate keep popping up, that could change pretty quickly.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Well, I disagree a bit. I think it says something to have the steel made in the same country the knife is made. That says a little something to me about the health of a country's knife manufacturing abilities. I am sort of surprised China hasn't come up with their own versions of the better steels out there for manufacture in their own country. I mean, they've done everything else, why not that? I can guess some of the obvious reasons but it has to be costly to import s35vn and the like.

Well man we can agree to disagree. It wont be the first nor the last. For me i just kinda feel like if knife companies arent making their own steel then its not really related. And that if that was really that important that companies would only use domestic steel but as we know they import what is in demand. And its also not reates, kizers or carsons fault if they dont in fact have local steels That are suitable alternatives. If they did they would probably catch hell for copying the powdered steel technology.

Either way i see it as chinese factories seeking out the materials they know will put value and desirability into their products. And even if china had their powdered steels tomorrow its just one more hurdle to overcome. Its hard enough for some to come around tomthe idea of a well made chinese knife. If people are complaining now imagine what it would be like if they were NOT using a well known premium steel And imho its no more costly for china to import s35vn than it is for us to import bohler, sandvik or hitachi. The whole industrynimports steel based on customer demand and desirability. I dont need to buy domestic pasta to make a decent meal. If any other companies were doing things differently id agree with you. But it seems we are criticizing for commonplace.

 

[craytab]

I dont need to buy domestic pasta to make a decent meal.

If you lived in Italy you would

 

[leghog]

Again, the non Chinese specify the specs... The Chinese produce it....following SPECS.

Though often times it is only produced to spec IF you are willing to look over the producer's shoulder every step in the manufacturing, from the raw materials to the finished product. Fail to do that in the PRC and you may or may not get the spec you paid for.

 

[PURPLEDC]

If you lived in Italy you would

lol, kinda my point bro. I use imported italian pasta because i feel its the best. I dont seek out a local substitute of lesser quality. And that the inferior local pasta doesnt really have any impact on my ability to make the meal f im all ready using the best.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Though often times it is only produced to spec IF you are willing to look over the producer's shoulder every step in the manufacturing, from the raw materials to the finished product. Fail to do that in the PRC and you may or may not get the spec you paid for.

Proof this happens in kizer, reate or carsons factories? Or are we just speculating again from other unrelated instances.

"

 

[craytab]

Proof this happens in kizer, reate or carsons factories? Or are we just speculating again from other unrelated instances.

"

And when leghog says "if you are willing to look over the producer's shoulder" what he should say is if the company comisioning the work is willing to pay to look over their producer's should. Having your hands in production isn't cheap. That cost falls to the company.

Again, any company can produce quality no matter the country. THE COUNTRY IS NOT THE ISSUE. The company is.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Though often times it is only produced to spec IF you are willing to look over the producer's shoulder every step in the manufacturing, from the raw materials to the finished product. Fail to do that in the PRC and you may or may not get the spec you paid for.

You're absolutely right.

...But this is the case anywhere you go, we can't keep singling out people. Try not having watchdogs here at home in the US. Try not having police looking over our shoulders. Heck, when my boss is off, productivity goes down and more people call in sick those days...And its a teamsters pure rah rah USA job. It's human nature, not exclusive to China.

Even then, like I said, it still falls to our companies. They set up relationships with producers in China and they are the ones who reward the good ones and UNFORTUNATELY the bad ones who don't keep up to par.

There's a market for $20 knives, $20 payless tennis shoes, etc... We can't complain if that's what we are willing to spend either. At those price points, quality and quality control invariably suffer.

 

[Stays Sharp]

China needs competition. We are not it unfortunately. Are there millions of people here ready to work factory jobs at US corporation's wage rates? Yeah just about as much as service and farming jobs.

Mexico, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea, etc etc are the next markets. Without competition, sure anyone can get too comfortable in the driver's seat and quality can go down this way also... But then again, China is big enough that it has competition within. Plentyyyy of it.

 

[Quehanna]

Thanks for all the input. I get the point anyone any where can produce a good product. A domestic knife could be good or bad depending on the QC. Same is to be said for any country. Still not sure if I'm ready to give in despite the possibilities of getting a great made in China knife. Been such a made in USA guy for so long, but I see both sides.

 

[GrReaper]

Having lived in Taiwan for about 10 years and having tried to do business in mainland China I can tell you that Chinese corruption is not just a fact but a vast and sweeping issue. An issue that made its way into Chinese society and culture long ago unfortunately make it engrained. The Chinese can make anything you want and to any standard you want. The problem is there are just too many "supported" and totally corrupt people that think nothing of ripping you off knowing full well you have zero recours in the matter.
I can bore people to dust with hundreds of stories ranging from just getting bumped for a couple of hundred dollars worth of materials to having whole companies stripped from non Chinese owners, all because of blatant corruption and the culture of "what's mine is mine and what's your is mine....and I'm much better than you, too". I personally choose to have as little as possible to do with a place like that.

I read up through page 2 and then stopped. +1 with you Haze! Of course, any country's factories could produce quality products, but in the case of mainland China, their products have a well deserved reputation for garbage. It goes beyond quality control problems. There are fraud and deception problems, putting in hazardous materials and impurities into their products. As well as the stealing designs and counterfeiting problems. So it's a trust issue, first and foremost. If you've been burned before multiple times, you'd be stupid to keep getting burned. This is just basic common sense and human nature. So I personally stay away from purchasing anything made in China (People's Republic of China), including knives, whenever possible.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Thanks for all the input. I get the point anyone any where can produce a good product. A domestic knife could be good or bad depending on the QC. Same is to be said for any country. Still not sure if I'm ready to give in despite the possibilities of getting a great made in China knife. Been such a made in USA guy for so long, but I see both sides.

Its not an easy step to take. I used to be one of the loudest chinese knife haters. Then curiosity got the best of me and I learned the hard way that I should not judge unless its from experience. And now that im experienced ( heres lookin at you blues ) I cant make my old arguments against them. Just remember man there is nothing wrong with staying made in USA only. Its a personal choice and that choice is yours.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I read up through page 2 and then stopped. +1 with you Haze! Of course, any country's factories could produce quality products, but in the case of mainland China, their products have a well deserved reputation for garbage. It goes beyond quality control problems. There are fraud and deception problems, putting in hazardous materials and impurities into their products. As well as the stealing designs and counterfeiting problems. So it's a trust issue, first and foremost. If you've been burned before multiple times, you'd be stupid to keep getting burned. This is just basic common sense and human nature. So I personally stay away from purchasing anything made in China (People's Republic of China), including knives, whenever possible.

Problem is those problems are not unique to china. I dont agree that they have a reputation for just garbage. Thats just how you identify with them. Yeah for good reason. Once upon a time they really didnt make great stuff in many cases. But times change. You have chinese products all over your house. The good ones you dont notice are made in china because they havent given you any problems. But they are there and chances are you are really happy with them. Im watching a chinese TV, typing on my chinese laptop and checking out a new batch of knives sent to me from china. Word has it they make some pretty mean food too. If I boycotted every instance of corruption, deception and problematic manufacturing I dont think I would own much of anything. Sure "china" has a reputation. But "china" doesnt make knives. People, as in human beings born and raised in china do. And I dont think they are all bad people. And to be honest David from Reate has shown infinite amounts of patience and understanding of the naysayers. Lets not forget the question of this thread was "can china made produce a good blade" The answer despite all of the other unrelated anecdotes in this thread is a yes. Its a fact.

 

[bld522]

I learned the hard way that I should not judge unless its from experience.

Yep. Reminds me of an instant classic I read recently . . .

Naysayer "Chinese knives suck. China is dishonest and the knives are made of low quality materials and poorly executed."

Chinese knife user "have you ever seen, used or handled any of the knives we are speaking of?"

Naysayer "why would I? They suck."

Nuff said....................

Nuff said indeed.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Yep. Reminds me of a post I read recently . . .



Nuff said indeed.

I just figured since the very consideration of an argument usually hinges on the question of "have you ever even seen one?" That it would be puzzling if china was the only exemption. As it would appear to be the first and only example that i know of where we would encourage discounting and discouraging first hand knowledge of something in favor of speculation.

 

[bld522]

I appreciate your explanation. But to me it's self-explanatory. It's one of the best posts I've ever read and every time I think about it, it makes me laugh. I just wish I'd have come up with it.

Thanks again.

 

[GrReaper]

Problem is those problems are not unique to china. I dont agree that they have a reputation for just garbage. Thats just how you identify with them. Yeah for good reason. Once upon a time they really didnt make great stuff in many cases. But times change. You have chinese products all over your house. The good ones you dont notice are made in china because they havent given you any problems. But they are there and chances are you are really happy with them. Im watching a chinese TV, typing on my chinese laptop and checking out a new batch of knives sent to me from china. Word has it they make some pretty mean food too. If I boycotted every instance of corruption, deception and problematic manufacturing I dont think I would own much of anything. Sure "china" has a reputation. But "china" doesnt make knives. People, as in human beings born and raised in china do. And I dont think they are all bad people. And to be honest David from Reate has shown infinite amounts of patience and understanding of the naysayers. Lets not forget the question of this thread was "can china made produce a good blade" The answer despite all of the other unrelated anecdotes in this thread is a yes. Its a fact.

Those problems are not unique to China, but they seem to be endemic there, the rule of thumb. If you look at most other countries, there are nowhere near the quantity and the scope of problems as from China. Anyway, that's been my experience. It's obviously also been the experience of a lot of others, that's why made-in-China has a bad reputation. As for products made-in-China in my house, for the last six or seven years, I've been very careful to avoid made-in-China like the plague. What do you know, I no longer have things breaking down all the time. The few things I still have that are made-in-China, even high end items, do have all kinds of issues, like breaking down or just poor performance. Unfortunately, there are some products that are ONLY made-in-China. Knives, thank goodness, are still made everywhere. Like I said, it comes down to trust. I just can't trust knives or anything else coming out of China. I use the country of origin as a quick filter to avoid crappy products. I also look at the manufacturer's reputation and check reviews. So obviously, yeah, any country and any manufacturer can make crappy products. But made-in-China is still the bottom of the barrel as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Haze]

Yea, you guys have it all nailed down.... How long did you live and work in China by the way ? You seem to know the place and all it's factories inside out.....

Why do the all the Chinese knife guys I know buy European and US made knives ?

I can even have a real Chinese knife person come on here and tell you the truth if you need them to. You probably won't believe them though, what do they know, right ?

Yep. Reminds me of an instant classic I read recently . . .

Naysayer "Chinese knives suck. China is dishonest and the knives are made of low quality materials and poorly executed."

Chinese knife user "have you ever seen, used or handled any of the knives we are speaking of?"

Naysayer "why would I? They suck."

Nuff said....................

Nuff said indeed.

 

[GrReaper]

I've also heard that Chinese people avoid all made-in-China products because they're considered dangerous to their health. If Chinese people will avoid Chinese products, who but an ignorant person would buy made-in-China?

 

[bld522]

Yea, you guys have it all nailed down.... How long did you live and work in China by the way ? You seem to know the place and all it's factories inside out.....

Why do the all the Chinese knife guys I know buy European and US made knives ?

I can even have a real Chinese knife person come on here and tell you the truth if you need them to. You probably won't believe them though, what do they know, right ?

I'm waiting . . .