Can someone tell me more about the ZT0777M390?

[RamZar]

ha ha! I don't represent the Italian Knife Community!! Thank you anyway to think so! In the small community I'm in we have some 0777 in preorder.

In my opinion, those who stereotyped you were wrong.

You have lost respect not because we are not going to get the blade, but because you GIVE UP. Zero Tolerance is made of people that can't stand the difficulties. This is the message we have received. No one here is in hurry to have 0777, take your time, but don't give up.

It's NOT a question of giving up! That's ludicrous!

Sometimes in production when you encounter severe issues that goes on over extended periods you need to ascertain corporate profitability but still to satisfy your core customers with an alternative. Plain and simple...

Here's how ZT has NOT given up. After all the issues with the 0777 they still continued with the first triple layer composite blade in the 0454 which was the Overall Winner at the 2013 Blade Show. I sure don't think that's somebody giving up!

 

[NeverMore1701]

"adapted"

Yep, the initially planned blades weren't working out, so they changed them. Same knife, just different blade material.

Or they could have blown the whole project off and said "too much trouble, oh well". Would that have made you a more satisfied customer?

 

[JDunn709]

With all due respect, you people complaining are driving me crazy!

I assume we're all here because we love knives and (hopefully most of you) love knives from the pleasure that comes with USING them...

having said that, I am of the opinion that changing the blade to m390 is an upgrade simply in that this knife will be a beautiful beast of a user now. Yea, the composite blade was nice, but there's no way I would have used it nearly as much or with as much confidence as I would a solid m390 blade...I didn't feel so bad about missing out on the 777 because of this reason. Now I find myself REALLY wishing I had one on order - I now lust for the 777 MORE because of this blade upgrade. Maybe not as pretty as the composite blade, but the rest of the design is still stunning...and sure to be super tough - ZT, KAI you guys continue to kick-ass :thumbup:

I've always perceived ZT knives as knives that beg for use - I think this is what makes them such a great value...the increased useability to come from the m390 makes this an upgrade in my eyes...


So having said that, how can I get one?! If any of you unhappy with the change want to give up your order, please contact me!

This is how I feel as well, I'm considerably more interested in the 0777 project now that it's going to be offered with a solid M390 blade!

 

[Kai Corp.]

What facilitates customers, end-users, collectors and enthusiasts is a stream of frequent and open-ended updates on schedules and numbers even within the constraints of production batches, issues, raw materials and changing corporate priorities. All that could be dissemminated and capsulated within the caveat emptor "rules"... Frequently.

Are there manufacturers out there that converse and facilitates with the end-line user on public forums and give all the details of their business?

 

[PURPLEDC]

You have lost respect not because we are not going to get the blade, but because you GIVE UP. Zero Tolerance is made of people that can't stand the difficulties. This is the message we have received.

Well if thats the message you received then something was probably lost in the translation. Its easy to sit there and say ZT gave up. Especially when none of us are the ones making the knives and experiencing the things setting the project back. With that, what do we really know about the situation? Not much, so who are any of us to judge their decision. Its been left to interpretation because they have chosen not to reveal certain details and they shouldn't have to. Do you really think its a decision they wanted to come to? We may not know the reason why they had to change to a M390 blade but Im positive they would not have done it unless they felt they had no choice in the matter. To sit and try to read any more into it than that is pure speculation and unfair. I dont think they quit at all considering with all the drama surrounding the issues from even the prototype stages they are still trying to pump the thing out. Most companies would have made like a Jani-song and killed the project entirely. Again its a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. Still It may not be exactly what you wanted, and I know its seems unfair when the first knives issued did in fact have the original blade design. But to point the finger and call them quitters simply because your not getting exactly what you want doesnt seem fair.

 

[ammiraglio]

Let me explain the point of view.

I think it's easy. We are expecting one thing. This thing has been changed, it's a new thing, different from what's expected.
I'm a customer, have no right to know reasons, don't even want to.

If someone thinks that the beautiful composite blade is the same of a solid M390 blade... I disagree.

This doesn't mean that the 0777 M390 is rubbish, it's still a very good knife, but not as good/beatiful/original/stylish as the composite one. Very far from that.

That blade is difficult to produce? A few of them have been made, with pain for ZT off course, but they did it.
Now, as customer patiently in queue waiting our turn, we have been told that we are not worth that pain (hope it's correct in english! while it has been for somone else.

To summarize, we are not happy because:
- we have ordered one thing, a now someone is trying to convince us that a different thing it's just the same
- someone in the queue has got the honey while others will not
- ZT has left us without honey becase it's time to move on other priorities, so we are not anymore important

Sorry again for my bad english!

 

[RamZar]

Are there manufacturers out there that converse and facilitates with the end-line user on public forums and give all the details of their business?

Nobody is asking for "all the details of their business" just something along these lines:

We've now heard from the forums, and from here on out, it will be know that there will be "approximately" X number produced with LE's.

Please know that the variance WILL swing (sometimes wildly). Wish we could be more accurate, but manufacturing has a way of screwing everything up.

Whatever the case we appreciate the understanding, and who knows, maybe we can get back to the old ways again where there is more shared information.

 

[RamZar]

We are expecting one thing. This thing has been changed, it's a new thing, different from what's expected.

If someone thinks that the beautiful composite blade is the same of a solid M390 blade... I disagree.

This doesn't mean that the 0777 M390 is rubbish, it's still a very good knife, but not as good/beatiful/original/stylish as the composite one. Very far from that.

- we have ordered one thing, a now someone is trying to convince us that a different thing it's just the same

The substitute is not the same as the original and nobody said it was. It's the best available substitute/replacement to allow continuation and completion of a production run.

 

[Aerian17]

I can see where the poster above is coming from but not to the insulting degree his messages are coming off (maybe lost in translation???).

I absolutely love KAIs knives and can't wait for the future models to come out. I will buy every one i can and lately i have bought every single new model that has come out since 2012 and use the heck out of every single one of them. Fantastic knives and some of the best in the industry. Lately i have been using my 0600 and 0801 all the time and loving every minute of it.

With all that said, the 0777 was the knife that got me back into this hobby (with the TILT which i got) a few years ago and is my single greatest Grail knife. Single handily the composite blade was what made it for me and I have been trying to buy one non stop since they were released to the market and they are impossible to find anywhere on the 2nd hand market. I literally have been looking everywhere i could every single day now for months and months, and can still not find one. So, it greatly saddens me that this version is being discontinued (yes i know the reasons why) since the composite blade version is the one i wanted. I understand that the M390 version is coming out to help ease the pain of demand but to me and many others (like poster above) I really have no interest in a non composite blade. It simply does not equal the same knife as the 0777 when you take that component away. The 0777 was a work of art visually when you view the composite blade and imo...that will be lost with a single steel design. Sure i will probably still buy one just because (only at normal price) but..in my eyes... it will be no where near the knife the 0777 was visually..

Truly a sad day to know I might never own one due to the sheer limited numbers released. I pretty much expect the very few that are out there to become permanent safe queens and never see the light of day.

None the less....KAI keep up the fantastic work and keep on winning those awards. Anytime anyone asks me a good knife to buy i always point them in your direction!!!

 

[jimmer_5]

Gentlemen, take it down a notch, or I will close this thread.


Ammiraglio is obviously frustrated and there is nothing more to discuss. I don't want to see any more arguing about it regardless of the inflammatory nature of some of his statements. We had to make a change to this product due to a material issue and some people will be upset. I get that.

I wish we didn't have to change the blade - believe me, it was a difficult decision, and we knew that some people would be upset. We decided to change the blade so we could finish this project and move on. At this point, the decision has been made and it is up to each of you to decide whether or not to buy the knife. I am confident that most will still buy one and enjoy it in spite of the delay and the changes.

 

[sinsanity]

This is an ugly situation for everyone involved. Why not just appreciate the wonderful products that KAI continues to put out and look to the future not stuck on past complications? The m390 blade is gonna be a beast and remember that the MSRP is lower so the price from dealers will be lower. And if you still want the damascus bladed one chase it like a fat kid chases cake! The hunt is half the fun! Always want what you don't have...which is exactly why so many people are whining about the change. You'll still have a chance at the 0777 just not the composite damascus.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Nobody is asking for "all the details of their business" just something along these lines:

We've now heard from the forums, and from here on out, it will be know that there will be "approximately" X number produced with LE's.

Please know that the variance WILL swing (sometimes wildly). Wish we could be more accurate, but manufacturing has a way of screwing everything up.

Whatever the case we appreciate the understanding, and who knows, maybe we can get back to the old ways again where there is more shared information.

Ah I see you misinterpreted my intention. While I know you weren't around for the first go around for Kai here on BF's, we did in fact open up our business to what you are asking for here. That turned into us actually leaving BF's due to, well you know.

Since our return we've had to set some hardline rules up because of, well you know.

I don't see that changing anytime soon. Sorry about that.

So, are there manufacturers out there that open specific details about portions of their production to the end line user?

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

Kudos to KAI/ZT for trying to make the best out of a unforseen situation.

IBTL!

 

[Aerian17]

HI Guys,

What are the major differences now between say the ZT 0770CF and the ZT 0777-M390? It comes off to me that they will be pretty similar overall with only a few slight differences (blade size, pocket clip and lock bar being initial stand out points).

 

[PURPLEDC]

HI Guys,

What are the major differences now between say the ZT 0770CF and the ZT 0777-M390? It comes off to me that they will be pretty similar overall with only a few slight differences (blade size, pocket clip and lock bar being initial stand out points).

The differences will be the same as they were when it was a composite blade except now its a solid blade. The 0770 is a steel liner lock I believe. The 0777 will still have the titanium sub frame lock, micro adjust steel lockbar insert, 3-D machined carbon fiber handle (instead of the the 0770 flat C/F scales) as well as the 3-D machined Titanium pocket clip. The blade will also have the machined groove. Also the 0777M390 will have the KVT (or ZTVT as they have been using) bearing system while the 0770 will be assisted opening with washers.

Gentlemen, take it down a notch, or I will close this thread.


Ammiraglio is obviously frustrated and there is nothing more to discuss. I don't want to see any more arguing about it regardless of the inflammatory nature of some of his statements. We had to make a change to this product due to a material issue and some people will be upset. I get that.

I wish we didn't have to change the blade - believe me, it was a difficult decision, and we knew that some people would be upset. We decided to change the blade so we could finish this project and move on. At this point, the decision has been made and it is up to each of you to decide whether or not to buy the knife. I am confident that most will still buy one and enjoy it in spite of the delay and the changes.

apologies. Original post edited for attitude.

 

[Aerian17]

The differences will be the same as they were when it was a composite blade except now its a solid blade. The 0770 is a steel liner lock I believe. The 0777 will still have the titanium sub frame lock, micro adjust steel lockbar insert, 3-D machined carbon fiber handle (instead of the the 0770 flat C/F scales) as well as the 3-D machined Titanium pocket clip. The blade will also have the machined groove. Also the 0777M390 will have the KVT (or ZTVT as they have been using) bearing system while the 0770 will be assisted opening with washers.

Thanks for the quick reply. Not sure if those differences are worth 2x the price (where as the previous blade sure was) but never know until i see one. I am curious to see some actual videos and images now.

As many have mentioned, one thing the M390 version does do is shove it into the actual "Hard Use" category where as the 0777 before was always going to be light use.

 

[dishcore]

Im a moron.

Continue on

 

[ammiraglio]

No flames here, just bad english. Jimmer.

 

[RamZar]

So, are there manufacturers out there that open specific details about portions of their production to the end line user?

LionSteel of Italy sets up manufacturer's direct preorders with schedules and the quantity for the first batch. Whatever is not sold to end-users/customers is given to dealers. For instance, on the SR2 I preordered and paid LionSteel in Euros. Of course, they had several delays from April 30th to May 31st to June 30th (with some website and forum updates). I got mine on July 1st. BHQ started selling theirs on July 24th. It did cost me more to secure one directly from manufacturer mostly due to Int'l FedEx (SR2 Ti $379 vs. $417). Customers in Europe got theirs on June 22nd. Part of the delay on mine was address change from Post Office box.

 

[jimmer_5]

No flames here, just bad english. Jimmer.

Ok - I was thinking that perhaps what you really meant was lost in translation. You just need to understand that your comment about the 0777 and the Matrix is backwards. The truth is actually the reverse, and it's a sore subject around here.

In any case, it's a long story that I'd rather not discuss again.