Can someone tell me more about the ZT0777M390?

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Kai Corp. said:
What's the magic production number that keeps both collectors and users happy, and in the sweet spot price wise? If 1000-1500 is too many for a collector, then they should know that, and pay accordingly. If a 1000-1500 is to few for a user, then they should know that and also pay accordingly. Yea? No?
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FWIW, IMO ZT could have made 5000 CBCF's and that would have been fine by me. Every one gets one which is a good thing. The issue is that every place online that I could find them, were advertising that they were going to be limited to 1000 pieces, which is why I hurried up and bought one at near full MSRP. If they had been advertised as say "limited to approximately 1500 pieces" I would have held off buying and saved a substantial amount of cash, and also not take a $100 to $150 hit if I need to resell due to unforeseen events.

I understand due to production issues, fallouts etc that exact production numbers are impossible to peg down but I do think its possible to be more accurate with the target number..

Would like to buy a 0600 but I'm holding off and seeing how that one plays out..
 
RamZar said:
When it was unclear on the how "limited" the run was profiteers jumped in full force.
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This has all been discussed in detail. We don't know the production number that we will end with. Most end lower than the target #, some go over. We also don't usually make the entire run at one time. Most here on the forums know this. Everyone know who these "profiteers" are by their price. Doesn't mean you have to go play with them. Doesn't mean they're bad people. Just like it doesn't make a person bad for looking for a deal on a LE product.
 
ToxicBot11 said:
I understand due to production issues, fallouts etc that exact production numbers are impossible to peg down but I do think its possible to be more accurate with the target number..
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It doesn't really sound like you do understand, otherwise you wouldn't think we should be more accurate.

We've now heard from the forums, and from here on out, it will be know that there will be "approximately" X number produced with LE's. :p

Please know that the variance WILL swing (sometimes wildly). Wish we could be more accurate, but manufacturing has a way of screwing everything up. :)

Whatever the case we appreciate the understanding, and who knows, maybe we can get back to the old ways again where there is more shared information.
 
Kai Corp. said:
This has all been discussed in detail. We don't know the production number that we will end with. Most end lower than the target #, some go over. We also don't usually make the entire run at one time. Most here on the forums know this.
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Perhaps what may help is more communication to end-users through forums, FB, etc. on an initial estimate for the full run of the limited edition and then updates per batch.

Right now people are a little confused on when to jump in for a limited edition to get a chance at securing one, at the best possible price and have the extra money handy. Of course, there are risks involved but it's almost like the stars have to align.
 
It should be clear that even the dealers don't know how to play this game to best advantage; it is not a science.

I trust my dealer and he will charge what he thinks is the right price. If I want the knife, I buy one. On the LE's, I always buy one because I want one; not to be a safe queen (not that there is anything WRONG with that) nor to flop onto the bay for a windfall profit (not that there is anything WRONG with THAT). ;^)

Sounds simple and easy. Value shoppers always pay a little more in anxiety than do the
"see and buy" variety of shopper, or in some cases, the "got lucky and found one" shopper.

Now, how many Speedform 3500s were made???

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best

mqqn
 
Guys,

The long and the short of this is we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. If we provide a production number, there will always be some variation. People get mad because we make too few. People get mad because we make too many. People get mad because dealers charge full MSRP for an extremely limited project. The reason we don't like to discuss production numbers is because it becomes a source of contention.

I do understand the frustration with scalpers but it happens literally EVERY time we release a hot new product. The truly obnoxious ones usually don't do very well and the market balances itself out.

We try to take care of our enthusiasts, but we can't predict every issue we are going to encounter, and therefore, the final number we provide will never be perfectly accurate. We produce in batches of several hundred at a time, and there is often a gap between production batches. Supply is generally limited when the first batch goes out.

Pre-orders are probably the safest bet. I understand that we all want the best price possible, but I think we need to accept that with limited runs, you won't always be able to buy the knife for minimum advertised price. If you're concerned about taking a loss in the secondary market, my advice would be to never pay more than MSRP. That being said, we can't control the secondary market - it's unpredictable, and it fluctuates.

The 0777 project has been something of an anomaly - there were more production issues than normal, and the build is pretty complicated. We've never been known for being fast, but most of the other limited edition projects have run a lot more smoothly as of late.
 
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jimmer_5 said:
We've never been known for being fast, but most of the other limited edition projects have run a lot more smoothly as of late.
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In my profession, I find that happens a lot. If the organization gets pushed hard to deliver something difficult, something truly worthwhile, after the big push is over we seem to be able to handle the other things more easily. Relationships have been built, techniques learned, and attitudes adjusted. I think that's cool.

And I'm happy to buy anyone's composite blade 0777. Just thought I'd throw that out there. You know. In case.
 
NeilB said:
In my profession, I find that happens a lot. If the organization gets pushed hard to deliver something difficult, something truly worthwhile, after the big push is over we seem to be able to handle the other things more easily. Relationships have been built, techniques learned, and attitudes adjusted. I think that's cool.

And I'm happy to buy anyone's composite blade 0777. Just thought I'd throw that out there. You know. In case.
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The other thing that is hard to grasp is that the highly anticipated products are generally NEW. New projects are always challenging, and for perfectly normal reasons. A batch of inserts fit too tight and need to be reworked. The screws that looked perfect in the 3D model are too long in reality and replacements need to be sourced. It takes a bit for the assemblers to figure out the idiosyncrasies of the new knife and become efficient at building it. The first batch of knives trickle out a bit more slowly than the later knives. Limited supply increases demand, which increases prices. This kind of situation is not unique to Kershaw/ZT. I wish I had a better answer, but it's just the realities of manufacturing.
 
Jimmer, I can imagine that it hurts when you try to be so involved with us, share information, offer informed opinions, correct our misconceptions, and then... things change, and you have an angry mob who is accustomed to being rather spoiled by your free help and information.

I just wanna say thanks to you and all of ZT for being so involved with all of us enthusiasts and for trying new ways of interaction, some of which work and some that don't work so well. I can tell you guys genuinely care and have your own passions for sharp things.
 
Listen, you all at ZT are doing an outstanding job and it'll be a glorious & noted year with ever more diversified products, limited editions and the usual great customer service.

I just wish that where possible as much tangible hard data (quantities and schedule) is provided to end-users, customers and enthusiasts in as timely a manner as possible. Where the hard numbers are more flexible perhaps an explanation with the usual estimated plus or minus percentage.

I sincerely wish ZT all the best.
 
I think 2013 truly has been an extremely remarkable year for ZT. They amazed me at Shot and blew me away at Blade. Far too many gorgeous designs and concepts....black wash anyone?
 
poolhustler said:
Where are you getting those numbers?
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Sorry I should have used letters.
If Y is the number of composite 777 produced, and X plus Y equals 1000, than solve for X
X Should be the number of 777M390 made. I was told by the dealer that they were only to replace the existing orders and changing the composite for M390 is what I was told.

As for numbers, had most of us known the numbers for the composite 777 were, we would probably have jumped on certain deals we had seen previously to secure one. Now if we are to get one, the cost would be much higher than what we would like to have paid. And that's why some of us are concerned about how many will be produced...
 
I love the design of the 777, the originals were out of my price range at the time and I doubt I will be in a situation to obtain one anytime soon. Hopefully I can snag one of the 390 ones. Although it hurts not to be able to get one of the originals I certainly can't be upset at anyone else about it, I am honestly just grateful that KAI even made such an incredible knife. If I miss the boat again it isn't the end of the world because it is clear to see ZT is really ramping up with all the new models they are producing. The 777 is awesome but I am completely sure that at some point in the future they will release something just as awesome if not surpass it. Instead of dwelling on the knives I miss I just try to get ready for the next flagship. Thank's to everyone at KAI for everything they keep pumping out!!!
 
jimmer_5 said:
Guys,

We've never been known for being fast
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to give credit where credit is due, I dont know of any other company in the knife industry with the goals you guys strive to achieve. And when you set the bar that high it will take time to attain that goal. Some companies like to keep at ground level and play it safe. Then there are those that shoot for the stars and offer something unique. And then there are companies like the one you work for that make like star trek and are going for galaxies unexplored by anyone. When you innovate there will always be set backs. And given the advancements we have seen in cutlery from KAI I really dont think you guys move all that slow. I think the expectations of consumers are what is too high. Most of us dont have any real insight into just what it takes to get an idea from concept in someones mind to a final product. Much less one of the intricate nature you're known for. Its a bit easy for us to sit and point the finger of blame when all we have is nothing but time waiting for a product. And honestly we arent even the ones experiencing the set backs. So if we are frustrated I can only imagine how you feel.
 
There are designs I love, and some I'm indifferent towards. That being said, I like ZT the best because they're ambitious. Even over ambitious sometimes, but it doesn't matter. That to me is better than a manufacturer that sits idle.

I'm always trying to cut down my collection and attempt to make my next knife purchase my last. But when it comes to ZT,

demotivationalgodfather.jpg
 
jimmer_5 said:
The other thing that is hard to grasp is that the highly anticipated products are generally NEW. New projects are always challenging, and for perfectly normal reasons. A batch of inserts fit too tight and need to be reworked. The screws that looked perfect in the 3D model are too long in reality and replacements need to be sourced. It takes a bit for the assemblers to figure out the idiosyncrasies of the new knife and become efficient at building it. The first batch of knives trickle out a bit more slowly than the later knives. Limited supply increases demand, which increases prices. This kind of situation is not unique to Kershaw/ZT. I wish I had a better answer, but it's just the realities of manufacturing.
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Jim, just curious if you guys use only 3D modeling in CAD or ir you actually 3D print the parts and pieces to see how they actually fit.
 
777TILT888 said:
Sorry I should have used letters.
If Y is the number of composite 777 produced, and X plus Y equals 1000, than solve for X
X Should be the number of 777M390 made. I was told by the dealer that they were only to replace the existing orders and changing the composite for M390 is what I was told.

As for numbers, had most of us known the numbers for the composite 777 were, we would probably have jumped on certain deals we had seen previously to secure one. Now if we are to get one, the cost would be much higher than what we would like to have paid. And that's why some of us are concerned about how many will be produced...
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But to my knowledge no one knows how many Y were made. Without knowing how many Y and how many X, we can't solve for Z.
 
poolhustler said:
But to my knowledge no one knows how many Y were made. Without knowing how many Y and how many X, we can't solve for Z.
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That's fine, KAI doesn't want to disclose what Y is, that's fine, just wanted to know if X + Y = Z if Z is still equal to 1000
 
KershawLynda confirmed 1,000 planned for the ZT 0777 back in mid-April this year in my first thread on this subforum. KAI/Jimmer have said that they plan on completing the 0777 run albeit with the 0777M390. The 0777 Serial# thread has a number below 250 as the highest Serial#. So, you can estimate on how many for the 0777M390. Hoping it's even more than that.

From a dealer website it looks like November 2013 for the 0777M390 for a MAP-MSRP of $360-$450. The 0777M390 is weighing in at just 4.2 ounces versus 4.5 ounces for the 0777. You can carry these all day in business attire. Best thing is that with the M390 you can put it to good use all day as well.
 
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