Hey y'all, I'm curious about a few knives I'm considering for purchase. A knife shop on the mainland sells a lot of mainstream knives including flippers...now, from what I've read flippers (knife that opesn by flicking your wrist) are illegal. I love a lot of the newer flipper designs though, like the shallot and junk yard dog. So my question basicly is this.. does anyone know for certain what the laws say about these type of knives? thanks in advance guys! take care.
Canadian knife law specifics.
- Thread starter Jesse D.L
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The Criminal Code defines prohibited weapons as follows:
""prohibited weapon" means
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or
(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon."
A knife that you can flip open by flicking your wrist is, therefore, a prohibited weapon.
The Shallot is not prohibited. It is an assisted opener, and because you have to apply pressure to the blade (rather than a device attached to the handle) for it to open, it is outside the definition above.
Flippers are not prohibited, either. You have to apply finger pressure to the flipper to get the blade partially open, before flicking the knife open. As long as the pivot screw is tight enough that the blade cannot be opened by centrifugal force alone, the knife is legal.
Note that you can take a perfectly legal knife and make it a prohibited weapon by loosening the pivot screw. So, as with most things in the Criminal Code, it's not just the specific knife that's illegal so much as how you use it.
""prohibited weapon" means
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or
(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon."
A knife that you can flip open by flicking your wrist is, therefore, a prohibited weapon.
The Shallot is not prohibited. It is an assisted opener, and because you have to apply pressure to the blade (rather than a device attached to the handle) for it to open, it is outside the definition above.
Flippers are not prohibited, either. You have to apply finger pressure to the flipper to get the blade partially open, before flicking the knife open. As long as the pivot screw is tight enough that the blade cannot be opened by centrifugal force alone, the knife is legal.
Note that you can take a perfectly legal knife and make it a prohibited weapon by loosening the pivot screw. So, as with most things in the Criminal Code, it's not just the specific knife that's illegal so much as how you use it.
IIRC there is no law against concealed carry. Canadian knife law re: carry depends 100% on INTENT. It is legal to carry ANY non-prohibited knife as a tool. It is NOT legal to carry any knife as a weapon/for self-defense. Make sense? It is legal to conceal a tool, but not a weapon. There is no federal regulation that I know of for fixed blades, or length of blade, etc. Your local bylaws may vary.
The main problem is that there is no definition of what makes one knife a weapon and another a tool. What is or is not a weapon is entirely up to the discretion of the officer you happen to be talking to. It has been my experience that an officer will ask why you have a knife. If you say it is for defense, it will be confiscated. If you say it's a tool to open packages etc, you're usually fine... but obviously some small 3" folder is easier to see as a tool than an 8" dagger or whatever. Again whether your knife is a weapon or not is entirely up to the officer. If he's in a bad mood, or you look "suspicious", you may have your knife confiscated regardless even though there is no law to back this up. Getting it back (if even possible) will take more time and effort than the knife is probably worth.
The main problem is that there is no definition of what makes one knife a weapon and another a tool. What is or is not a weapon is entirely up to the discretion of the officer you happen to be talking to. It has been my experience that an officer will ask why you have a knife. If you say it is for defense, it will be confiscated. If you say it's a tool to open packages etc, you're usually fine... but obviously some small 3" folder is easier to see as a tool than an 8" dagger or whatever. Again whether your knife is a weapon or not is entirely up to the officer. If he's in a bad mood, or you look "suspicious", you may have your knife confiscated regardless even though there is no law to back this up. Getting it back (if even possible) will take more time and effort than the knife is probably worth.
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poparelli has done a good job here.
Knife laws are generally handled in Canada on a precinct by precinct basis (municipal bylaws)
the general response from the precincts i contacted in Canada are 3-4 inches will be not issue, as long as you state its a tool not a weapon, and the cop BELIEVES you.
51st (tough neighborhood) said most knives on a younger person would likely be confiscated. however at 53rd (better neighborhood) the reponse was alot "nicer".
with a blade above 4 inches, the police will probably want to put you in handcuffs to talk to you for their safety (not arrested just detained) and will want a good reason why you are carrying that knife.
finally the police in Canada have exceptional leeway when it comes to arresting people and each police officer will be different. With the wrong attitude a 1nch knife can land you in jail (seen it first hand). The police will always give the nod to those who are polite courteous and have the fore-site to come up with an answer before time:
What is the intended use of this weapon? (can't be defense)
Could that task be achieved with a smaller blade?
Do you mind if we take the blade and you can collect it from the precinct in the morning?
lastly if you plan on going to a bar, do not bring your EDC pocketknife, unless you have exceptional self control. if you get into a fight and are found with a knife, u go from being knee deep to neck deep in just a few seconds.
Knife laws are generally handled in Canada on a precinct by precinct basis (municipal bylaws)
the general response from the precincts i contacted in Canada are 3-4 inches will be not issue, as long as you state its a tool not a weapon, and the cop BELIEVES you.
51st (tough neighborhood) said most knives on a younger person would likely be confiscated. however at 53rd (better neighborhood) the reponse was alot "nicer".
with a blade above 4 inches, the police will probably want to put you in handcuffs to talk to you for their safety (not arrested just detained) and will want a good reason why you are carrying that knife.
finally the police in Canada have exceptional leeway when it comes to arresting people and each police officer will be different. With the wrong attitude a 1nch knife can land you in jail (seen it first hand). The police will always give the nod to those who are polite courteous and have the fore-site to come up with an answer before time:
What is the intended use of this weapon? (can't be defense)
Could that task be achieved with a smaller blade?
Do you mind if we take the blade and you can collect it from the precinct in the morning?
lastly if you plan on going to a bar, do not bring your EDC pocketknife, unless you have exceptional self control. if you get into a fight and are found with a knife, u go from being knee deep to neck deep in just a few seconds.
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There are statutes as to concealed carry in the Criminal Code of Canada...
CCC S. 89 (1) Carrying weapon while attending a public meeting - Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition while the person is attending or is on the way to attend a public meeting.
CCC S.90 (1) Carrying concealed weapon - Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized by the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.
Additionally, as interpreted by the CCC S. 2 Definitions - "Weapon" means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person and, without restricting the foregoing, includes a firearm.
As a general rule of thumb, carrying a fixed blade in its sheath on one's hip while going to or coming from work would not be seen as an offence (barring local provincial statutes, municipal bylaws,) providing its length and design would not be seen or construed as intimidating (such as a "Rambo" knife.) However carrying the same knife in the same manner while going out to the movies, or to the pub, or just being out & about, could be seen as unjustifiable and could be interpreted negatively by local authorities, leading to confiscation and/or charges.
Other prohibited items in Canada, as listed in Bill C-68, sec. III are ....
1. Any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person by the discharge therefrom of
(a) tear gas, Mace or other gas, or
(b) any liquid, spray, powder or other substance that is capable of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person.
2. Any instrument or device commonly known as “nunchaku”, being hard non-flexible sticks, clubs, pipes, or rods linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.
3. Any instrument or device commonly known as “shuriken”, being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more radiating points with one or more sharp edges in the shape of a polygon, trefoil, cross, star, diamond or other geometrical shape, and any similar instrument or device.
4. Any instrument or device commonly known as “manrikigusari” or “kusari”, being hexagonal or other geometrically shaped hard weights or hand grips linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.
5. Any finger ring that has one or more blades or sharp objects that are capable of being projected from the surface of the ring.
6. Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device.
7. A crossbow or similar device that
(a) is designed or altered to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands; or
(b) has a length not exceeding 500 mm.
8. The device known as the “Constant Companion”, being a belt containing a blade capable of being withdrawn from the belt, with the buckle of the belt forming a handle for the blade, and any similar device.
9. Any knife commonly known as a “push-dagger” that is designed in such a fashion that the handle is placed perpendicular to the main cutting edge of the blade and any other similar device other than the aboriginal “ulu” knife.
10. Any device having a length of less than 30 cm and resembling an innocuous object but designed to conceal a knife or blade, including the device commonly known as the “knife-comb”, being a comb with the handle of the comb forming a handle for the knife, and any similar device.
11. The device commonly known as a “Spiked Wristband”, being a wristband to which a spike or blade is affixed, and any similar device.
12. The device commonly known as “Yaqua Blowgun”, being a tube or pipe designed for the purpose of shooting arrows or darts by the breath, and any similar device.
13. The device commonly known as a “Kiyoga Baton” or “Steel Cobra” and any similar device consisting of a manually triggered telescoping spring-loaded steel whip terminated in a heavy calibre striking tip.
14. The device commonly known as a “Morning Star” and any similar device consisting of a ball of metal or other heavy material, studded with spikes and connected to a handle by a length of chain, rope or other flexible material.
15. The device known as “Brass Knuckles” and any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.
1. Any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person by the discharge therefrom of
(a) tear gas, Mace or other gas, or
(b) any liquid, spray, powder or other substance that is capable of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person.
2. Any instrument or device commonly known as “nunchaku”, being hard non-flexible sticks, clubs, pipes, or rods linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.
3. Any instrument or device commonly known as “shuriken”, being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more radiating points with one or more sharp edges in the shape of a polygon, trefoil, cross, star, diamond or other geometrical shape, and any similar instrument or device.
4. Any instrument or device commonly known as “manrikigusari” or “kusari”, being hexagonal or other geometrically shaped hard weights or hand grips linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.
5. Any finger ring that has one or more blades or sharp objects that are capable of being projected from the surface of the ring.
6. Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device.
7. A crossbow or similar device that
(a) is designed or altered to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands; or
(b) has a length not exceeding 500 mm.
8. The device known as the “Constant Companion”, being a belt containing a blade capable of being withdrawn from the belt, with the buckle of the belt forming a handle for the blade, and any similar device.
9. Any knife commonly known as a “push-dagger” that is designed in such a fashion that the handle is placed perpendicular to the main cutting edge of the blade and any other similar device other than the aboriginal “ulu” knife.
10. Any device having a length of less than 30 cm and resembling an innocuous object but designed to conceal a knife or blade, including the device commonly known as the “knife-comb”, being a comb with the handle of the comb forming a handle for the knife, and any similar device.
11. The device commonly known as a “Spiked Wristband”, being a wristband to which a spike or blade is affixed, and any similar device.
12. The device commonly known as “Yaqua Blowgun”, being a tube or pipe designed for the purpose of shooting arrows or darts by the breath, and any similar device.
13. The device commonly known as a “Kiyoga Baton” or “Steel Cobra” and any similar device consisting of a manually triggered telescoping spring-loaded steel whip terminated in a heavy calibre striking tip.
14. The device commonly known as a “Morning Star” and any similar device consisting of a ball of metal or other heavy material, studded with spikes and connected to a handle by a length of chain, rope or other flexible material.
15. The device known as “Brass Knuckles” and any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.
This isn't true.
kage258 listed the appropriate definition from the Criminal Code. Note the italics:
"Weapon" means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person and, without restricting the foregoing, includes a firearm.
A knife is a weapon when you use it as one. This includes displaying it to intimidate someone.
A knife is a weapon if it is designed as such. If it resembles various designs made for fighting, it's a weapon. For example, a dagger, having a double-edged blade.
Finally, a knife is a weapon when you intend to use it as one. For the law's purposes, that means that a knife is a weapon when a reasonable person wouldn't find a legitimate use for it. If the knife doesn't fit with where you are and what you're doing, it's going to be seen as a weapon.
This is not the same thing as "a knife is a weapon when a cop thinks it's a weapon." It's not as complicated or as arbitrary as people pretend.
A knife is a weapon when you're not behaving reasonably with it. A five-inch hunting knife in a city, for example, will be viewed as a weapon.
Whenever you have a knife concealed, the question is going to be, why did you conceal it?
"It's concealed because it's a folding pocket knife that you carry in your pocket, and so I was carrying it there" is a reasonable answer.
"It's concealed because I didn't want people to see it" is likely to get you into trouble, no matter what your reason for not wanting people to see it.
"CCC S. 89 (1) Carrying weapon while attending a public meeting - Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition while the person is attending or is on the way to attend a public meeting."
This is quite funny. I was attending a first reading of a new act in the Ontario legislature and was carrying my "sunday watch pocket knife". We had to go through the usual metal detector and my knife rang the bell. I told the guard that I wanted to carve my name in one of the seatbacks, he let me take the knife in with me. Actually, I kind of told him he couldn't have it. ;-))
Regards
Robin
This is quite funny. I was attending a first reading of a new act in the Ontario legislature and was carrying my "sunday watch pocket knife". We had to go through the usual metal detector and my knife rang the bell. I told the guard that I wanted to carve my name in one of the seatbacks, he let me take the knife in with me. Actually, I kind of told him he couldn't have it. ;-))
Regards
Robin
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Torsion bar knives (ex. kershaw leek) are legal in canada as long as they cannot be opened by flicking (centrifugal forces), but pushing a button (a thumb stud is OK) or gravity.
here is latest and greatest on the topic
http://www.knifezone.ca/D19-13-2-e.pdf
- the knife stuff starts on pg.11 and the torsions bar legislation in on pg.12
hope that helps.
I was going for simplicity. The fact remains that the weapon question is up to the discretion of [authority]. That, by it's very definition, is arbitrary. Officer A may leave you alone, Officer B may want to confiscate, each based on their own interpretation of a weapon. The point I was making is that in Canada we don't have laws like in the USA where it is very clearly and explicitly stated by law exactly what you can and cannot have. Here we just kind of let you go on your merry way with whatever you want until someone in authority happens to see it and decides then and there that it's "unreasonable". Further, even the legal definition (I use that word loosely) of a weapon isn't much help. I have a USMC Ka-Bar that is quite obviously designed and marketed as a "fighting knife". Never had any trouble with it in rural areas or camping etc, but in the city it would likely be confiscated. Why, though? The law is the same, but the officers in the city have decided there is no "reasonable" use it for there. These nebulous definitions are the problem.
To use an analogy: street racing is illegal, speeding is illegal, and there is nothing "reasonable" about having a Ferrari, arguably built for racing purposes, to drive around the city. Yet there is no law prohibiting you from doing so, and nobody can confiscate it based on their discretion (provided you have broken no traffic laws of course). So why is it okay to confiscate one knife as unreasonable/a weapon just because it is a bit bigger or scarier looking than another knife if I have broken no law and shown no ill intent?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the police are out there to grab everyone's knives. I myself EDC a Benchmade 710 and have never had any trouble with the police. Then again, I am not a punk kid wearing gang colours and hanging out on the street. And this was way longer than I intended...
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So....edc'ng an Izula (not job related) could land me in trouble then.
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all about where and when dude. if it was deep in a daypack and the officer asks, and you say, oops left over from camping, or its for my apple, and there is no other reason for alarm, odds are in your favor. on your belt at university, or in a shopping mall, bad move. just have a good reason, not self defense against people, (say you have a fear of big dogs) all about where and when. I EDC my izula with other survival stuff, in a semi-hidden pack pocket. granted I can always say its for work of some sort.
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You guys are totally missing the point here; a knife does not become a weapon until your intent to use it as one has been proven in court.
There is case law where a knife was used for self-defence and it was ruled not to be a weapon.
You don't need a reason to carry a knife. You don't need to explain yourself to the police. Why you're talking to the police about your knife is a whole other issue, but carrying a knife around is not a big deal.
Now having said all that, common sense goes a long way. Sure, it's legal to open-carry (or concealed for that matter) a nice 12inch bowie or even a sword or machete through the mall, but that's just asking for trouble. A folder in your pocket? No one will look at you twice.
The bottom line is this: It's not a weapon, it doesn't matter if it's concealed, and as long as it's not a prohibited device, you're good to go.
(unless you're in Calgary. And most provinces prohibit knives in bars.)
There is case law where a knife was used for self-defence and it was ruled not to be a weapon.
You don't need a reason to carry a knife. You don't need to explain yourself to the police. Why you're talking to the police about your knife is a whole other issue, but carrying a knife around is not a big deal.
Now having said all that, common sense goes a long way. Sure, it's legal to open-carry (or concealed for that matter) a nice 12inch bowie or even a sword or machete through the mall, but that's just asking for trouble. A folder in your pocket? No one will look at you twice.
The bottom line is this: It's not a weapon, it doesn't matter if it's concealed, and as long as it's not a prohibited device, you're good to go.
(unless you're in Calgary. And most provinces prohibit knives in bars.)
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Dude it's only legal to carry a 12inch+ blade if you just bought it and you are adding it to a collection and you still have the receipt. It's also legal to use a knife for self-defence but its not legal to carry a knife for self-defence. It's stupid but that's the law.
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Hello, I cutrently work in law enforcement, and there is some massive misinformation on some of these posts. First of all, conceal carry of anthing that can be construed as a weapon is criminal. The only exceptions I can see would be a traditional folder/SAK, etc.
Second, you all are forgetting S.88 of the Criminal Code which states that a person is not allowed to possess any weapon (or imitation thereof) that is dangerous to the public peace. This means that carrying anything that can fit into the definition of being a weapon is illegal. Furthermore, if it is concealed it is even more illegal (this includes backpacks).
SO, carrying your rambo knife in the city is a bad idea, because there is no reason why one should carry such a blade in the city. I carry a knife every day, and find that they are invaluable tools. I carry a native, or pm2 on my day to day business. They aren't uber tactical and aren't offensive. I woild recommend any number of folding knives for a completely legal edc blade.
Fixed blades aren't necessarily illegal either. An izula in a belt sheath is something I would consider reasonable, but that depends on context. If you are a law abiding everyday guy and you have a knife, then have a great time. If you are caysing issues and are carrying a knife, then you are going to make some new friends...
Second, you all are forgetting S.88 of the Criminal Code which states that a person is not allowed to possess any weapon (or imitation thereof) that is dangerous to the public peace. This means that carrying anything that can fit into the definition of being a weapon is illegal. Furthermore, if it is concealed it is even more illegal (this includes backpacks).
SO, carrying your rambo knife in the city is a bad idea, because there is no reason why one should carry such a blade in the city. I carry a knife every day, and find that they are invaluable tools. I carry a native, or pm2 on my day to day business. They aren't uber tactical and aren't offensive. I woild recommend any number of folding knives for a completely legal edc blade.
Fixed blades aren't necessarily illegal either. An izula in a belt sheath is something I would consider reasonable, but that depends on context. If you are a law abiding everyday guy and you have a knife, then have a great time. If you are caysing issues and are carrying a knife, then you are going to make some new friends...
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The criminal code says it's a weapon if it's designed or intended as one.
An Endura in the pocket does not meet those criteria, unless violent intent is somehow ascertained.
Fun fact, I had a 5 inch bladed Cold Steel Voyager on me in my pocket, clip showing.
The cops thought it was fine here in jolly old Windsor.
Of course, no criminal record, working, etc. etc.
The problem with Canadian law is that it is purposefully ambiguous - this gives crown attorneys and judges the discretion of interpreting the law as they see fit.
Obviously common sense prevails. I wouldn't carry a 5" fixed blade on me in the city. But the ambiguity of the law is problematic, as even carrying a ~3" folder can be considered a criminal offence for an over zealous cop and CA.
If like to point out that firearm storage laws are equally ambiguous, which has lead the way for law enforcement personnel to constantly push the interpretation of he law to their advantage. Remember, they're not there to enforce the law. They're there to convict you any way they can. Sad state if affairs.
Obviously common sense prevails. I wouldn't carry a 5" fixed blade on me in the city. But the ambiguity of the law is problematic, as even carrying a ~3" folder can be considered a criminal offence for an over zealous cop and CA.
If like to point out that firearm storage laws are equally ambiguous, which has lead the way for law enforcement personnel to constantly push the interpretation of he law to their advantage. Remember, they're not there to enforce the law. They're there to convict you any way they can. Sad state if affairs.
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I'm afraid you are adding to the misinformation in this post.
Almost anything can be a weapon. If a person had a letter opener concealed in their pocket and had the intent to use it as a weapon, then it is a concealed weapon. If a person has a knife in their pocket, it does not mean it is necessarily a concealed weapon, just because it can be construed as a weapon. Furthermore, there are no exceptions in the criminal code for "traditional folders."
Also, possession of a weapon that is dangerous to public peace does not mean what you asserted. It is a section to be used in pretty narrow circumstances:
that the object was in the possession of the accused,
that the object was a weapon as defined in the Criminal Code, and
that the purpose for which the respondent had possession was one which was dangerous to the public peace
that there was a danger to the public peace.
I'm not sure where you got your information from, but you should try to avoid presenting opinions as fact.
Almost anything can be a weapon. If a person had a letter opener concealed in their pocket and had the intent to use it as a weapon, then it is a concealed weapon. If a person has a knife in their pocket, it does not mean it is necessarily a concealed weapon, just because it can be construed as a weapon. Furthermore, there are no exceptions in the criminal code for "traditional folders."
Also, possession of a weapon that is dangerous to public peace does not mean what you asserted. It is a section to be used in pretty narrow circumstances:
that the object was in the possession of the accused,
that the object was a weapon as defined in the Criminal Code, and
that the purpose for which the respondent had possession was one which was dangerous to the public peace
that there was a danger to the public peace.
I'm not sure where you got your information from, but you should try to avoid presenting opinions as fact.