Canadian retail chain pulls plastic water bottles

kgd said:
Will - what ever was in your bottle to begin with has probably mostly been leached out by now if it is the same bottle. You might as well continue to use it!
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Don't work that way, pard. When it comes to leeching out, age is NOT your friend. On the contrary.
 
sketchbag said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the PVC is used for drainage, they use PEX pipe made of polyethylene for running watter.
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This is from a guy who used to be a plumbing apprentice (i quit because the boss wouldn't get off his butt and keep work coming in).
PEX Pipe was used in mobile homes for a period of time because it was flexible and cheaper than CPVC. It was also quite a bit more shoddy. It was discontinued because it was prone (AND I MEAN PRONE) to splitting, corroding and such. I believe, IIRC that there was even a recall on it for awhile.

PVC is used for drainage. Poly Vinyl Chloride.

CPVC is what is used for water supply. Chlorinated Poly Vinyl Chloride. Suitable for hot & cold and up to 400 PSI.

To me...copper is the only way to go. handles higher pressure, holds a connection better (is a little harder to repair)...unless you have well water. Sulfur eats copper up like acid.
 
So are you saying the classic wide-mouth Nalgene is NOT at issue then? :confused:

Did a search and found this article http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/114/nalgene

Thomas Linton said:
The older "milk jug" Nalgene containers and the PETE (Type 1) containers are not implicated in the university studies that started this dustup. They hold that harsh detergents and very hot water are the main agents that leach out the BPA.

I don't know of anything I'd call a bladder made of Lexan. It's rigid.

I bought my Nalgene's (1 qt wide mouth) from a lab supply company years ago - pre-Lexan - and never saw a reason to replace them. They have stood up for 24 years. Lexan is purdy, but so what?
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Buffalohump said:
So are you saying the classic wide-mouth Nalgene is NOT at issue then? :confused:

Did a search and found this article http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/114/nalgene
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I do not know what you mean by "classic."

As expressly noted above, and as implicit in the article you link, "Nalgene" is a brand, not a material.

"Lexan" is a material. "Lexan" (recycling code 7) is the problem -- or not if you reject the university studies.

Not all Nalgene bottles are made of Lexan.

The ones made of "milk jug" plastic (recyling code 2), AKA "HDPE," are not supposed to leach BPA.

Some discussions do not make these distinctions and talk as if Nalgene=Lexan.

Some (most) clear plastic containers are not made of Lexan. PETE (recycyle code 1) is used for pop bottles and commercially sold water. It is supposed to be safe for reuse if the bottles are washed properly - but that is true of any container so NBD. PETE is not as durable as Lexan but it's pretty tough (to avoid badness if bottle of pop is dropped in the store) and most PETE containers are "free" (no additional charge) - think 1 qt. Gatoraide bottles.
 
Personally I think the polycarbonate/Lexan stuff is mostly hysteria with maybe some level of truth (I would have to look more into it to be sure). However, if you like Nalgenes but don't want to risk it by using the Lexan ones, why not just get the polyethylene ones? Those are the milk jug, opaque white ones.

Just my 2 cents.
 
OK, so the ones I have are a problem then, cos they're made of Lexan for sure.... bummer!

Thomas Linton said:
I do not know what you mean by "classic."

As expressly noted above, and as implicit in the article you link, "Nalgene" is a brand, not a material.

"Lexan" is a material. "Lexan" (recycling code 7) is the problem -- or not if you reject the university studies.

Not all Nalgene bottles are made of Lexan.

The ones made of "milk jug" plastic (recyling code 2), AKA "HDPE," are not supposed to leach BPA.

Some discussions do not make these distinctions and talk as if Nalgene=Lexan.

Some (most) clear plastic containers are not made of Lexan. PETE (recycyle code 1) is used for pop bottles and commercially sold water. It is supposed to be safe for reuse if the bottles are washed properly - but that is true of any container so NBD. PETE is not as durable as Lexan but it's pretty tough (to avoid badness if bottle of pop is dropped in the store) and most PETE containers are "free" (no additional charge) - think 1 qt. Gatoraide bottles.
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8mmMauser said:
Personally I think the polycarbonate/Lexan stuff is mostly hysteria with maybe some level of truth (I would have to look more into it to be sure). However, if you like Nalgenes but don't want to risk it by using the Lexan ones, why not just get the polyethylene ones? Those are the milk jug, opaque white ones.

Just my 2 cents.
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because they make your water taste like crap.
 
So... workers in the plastics industry who handle Lexan daily and have done so since it was invented by Schnell and Fox in the mid 1950's have had an appallingly abnormal rate of cancer and birth defects?

Has anyone actually read these studies?

http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/snewsbpa.pdf

http://walking.about.com/od/hydration/f/lexansafety.htm

The bulk of the research shows that Plastic #7 (Lexan, Nalgene and other polycarbonate) bottles do not leach bisphenol A in amounts proven to cause health concerns in humans.

Lexan bottles have been in use as water bottles, storage bottles and baby bottles for many years. The most recent concern stems from a small study of 12 mice, given low doses of bisphenol A dissolved in corn oil. This study findings were not replicated in studies of 600 mice, conducted with the design assistance of the original investigator, Frederick vom Saal, Ph.D., of the University of Missouri, Columbia. The follow-up studies were done at two different labs.
 
Codger_64 said:
So... workers in the plastics industry who handle Lexan daily and have done so since it was invented by Schnell and Fox in the mid 1950's have had an appallingly abnormal rate of cancer and birth defects?

Has anyone actually read these studies?

http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/snewsbpa.pdf
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Yes, I got copies of the the CWRU and Missouri studies, but I am not sure I understood, much less could put the contents in scientific context.

It is clear that spokespersons for the plastics industry say Lexan and Lexan-like plastics are perfectly safe. Not sure how reasuring that is having lived through the tobacco wars.

Reading your linked article, the recommendation Nalgene itself is putting out is to avoid dishwashers and to hand wash Lexan. Sounds like an idea. Not that the maker of the product admits that there is any risk. Nope. None.

Having lived through the aluminum scare, the silicone implant panic, and the alar scam, I am aware that folks can get it wrong.

The EU has banned Lexan products for children under 3. Canada and the US are studying the supposedly imaginary risks.

Here's a non-manufacturer point-of-view: http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976926875

Not just water bottles.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Don't work that way, pard. When it comes to leeching out, age is NOT your friend. On the contrary.
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Leaching is a 1st order kinetic process so it should work, provided that the aging process and possibly having lost plasticizers via the same leaching process over time isn't contributing to degradation of plastic matrix.
 
Don't store your mice in a lexan bottle.:eek:

Send me you Nalgene Lexan and I will submit myself to being a human test subject. :D
 
kgd said:
Leaching is a 1st order kinetic process so it should work, provided that the aging process and possibly having lost plasticizers via the same leaching process over time isn't contributing to degradation of plastic matrix.
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So you'd expect smaller and smaller rates of leaching over time as the concentration available to leave the Lexan decreases, right?

That's why I suggested cycling some very hot water through the bottles for those who are concerned. I would expect that to remove most of what is ever going to leech from the plastic.
 
rhino said:
So you'd expect smaller and smaller rates of leaching over time as the concentration available to leave the Lexan decreases, right?

That's why I suggested cycling some very hot water through the bottles for those who are concerned. I would expect that to remove most of what is ever going to leech from the plastic.
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Yeah - BP has a relatively low water solubility so heating the water would help. Actually heated soapy water would help even more followed by some good rinses.
 
kgd said:
Leaching is a 1st order kinetic process so it should work, provided that the aging process and possibly having lost plasticizers via the same leaching process over time isn't contributing to degradation of plastic matrix.
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I love it when you talk dirty.:D
 
kgd said:
Yeah - BP has a relatively low water solubility so heating the water would help. Actually heated soapy water would help even more followed by some good rinses.
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I don't know that BPA has low water solubility:
Solubility in water is 120-300 ppm(at 21.5 °C).
Solubility increases with temperature so hot water would theoretically increase the molecules of BPA leaching into the solution. Rinses are definitely a good idea.

But this sentence from the Wiki should make you just a little cautious:
Bisphenol A is prepared by the reaction of four equivalents of phenol with one equivalent of acetone. This is done with hydrochloric acid (HCl) and sodium disulfide (Na2S2). The excess phenols are removed by dissolution in toluene.

I know you have worse problems if you lick the lead paint off a toy car made in China, but really, why bother when there are other alternatives.
 
Thomas Linton said:
I love it when you talk dirty.:D
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LOL - sorry it was a pretty obtuse statement. Tell truth, I haven't really looked into the BP issue enough to form an opinion. I'm more a phys/chem guy than a tox guy. Take heart that if you are a post-reproductive male, well lets just say evolution doesn't care anymore what kills yah :D
 
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