Canal Street Half Moon Trapper = Disappointed

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Popedandy's pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It seems that a lot of folks have no idea as to how a small knife shop runs; it's pretty much like an assembly line. Once parts are prepped (cut, drilled, flashed, ground, annealed, pierced, covers fitted and rivetted to scales, etc) for an order, they go through a process: The parts are laid out and assembled into knives with pins, pins are hand rivetted and the knives are cutlered and sent to hafters, who grind backs and haft, blend and glaze bolsters, caps, etc., then they go to the buffers for polishing, then to washing, edging and inspection. This is all done in a cycle from one order to the next with the goal of making enough knives to cover the week's expenses. There aren't any stragglers hanging out waiting for something to do, everyone works nonstop, everyone's fingers are swollen nubs. Now if you were to pull one of these folks off his/her job to spend a half a day doing a repair or in this case build a new knife, everything would come to a stop, or slow to a crawl, and no-one would have a job, hence the reason for a dedicated repairman.

The knife WILL be taken care of folks, to be bashing us like we just tossed it in the trash and forgot about it is mighty unfair, especially after only a week. I also think it would be mighty unfair to put Pelikan's knife ahead of others who may already have a knife in for repair just because he posted his troubles on a forum. All of us feel bad about any knife that comes back. We don't want to see any go through that aren't perfect, but when it happens, we do our best to make them right. Pelikan, if you absolutely needed this knife like, yesterday, then I'd be happy to send you my own chestnut single blade trapper to hold you over until yours is returned. You can even keep it, consider it a gift for all the trouble you've gone through. As a cutler that's about the best I can offer.

Eric
 
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damn....

i have no horse in this race, but that seems to be a hell of an offer to make things right..
 
Rsmith_77 said:
damn....

i have no horse in this race, but that seems to be a hell of an offer to make things right..
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I believe that's more than generous.
Personally, I think Canal Street deserves a bit more patience from all the internet cowboys. Unless of course, you would prefer all your future knives to come from China. :barf:
-Bruce
 
Ok....
I have read this thread through and through many times, and I believe greatly in giving someone a chance to make things right.
Brian E , I think your comment just isnt helping things at all, this is traditionals where we get together and discuss knives, from what I have seen in here..theres not too many lynchings , Pelican, you have been welcomed here on the Traditonal forum, your basic advice is to send it back to Canal Street Knives...you have done that, and yet...you still havent stopped whining.
Get over it, the company is looking into it, they havent turned you down at all, we all have bought more than one knife that has been FAR from right, you use todays technology of the internet to make things more widely known, just remember we can all think what we want of you too, so it goes both ways.
Today, you get better value for money because things are so very competitive, and Canal Street have a better historical reputation than the company you are making them out to be.
For goodness sake man, let it happen, I believe now you would almost recieve a gold plated knife and you still wont be happy, so why should Canal Street Knives look after you-because you keep damning them before they can do anything about it, just stop, wait, receive your replacement or refurbished knife, then that will be that.
Would YOU be happy if YOU ran a business and had an unhappy customer, who went on the internet and basically trashed the hell out of you, before them even speaking to you?, AND THEN after you had agreed to make things right, that customer continued?...think about that.
I suggest you give it a rest, let the other party do their bit.
As noted you like the internet so everyone can see, but this sub forum is a good place - and really not the place for trash talk, and if you want to get stuck into me, please dont do so in here, you are welcome to e-mail me your concerns.
 
I can understand the OPs dissappointment for sure. CS rep precedes them. The 2010 Forum knife is a work of art for mine. With that in mind I'll draw a very long bow with the analogy that Da Vinci probably did a shitload of crappy sketches before the Mona Lisa . Sounds like OP got a Friday arvo knife. He wasn't negative or snipey about it -just sounding off his disappointment-justifiably so.
Canal st have explained the process of repair/replacement which seems reasonable.
Op probably should have gone back to point of purchase.
I feel this will turn out well.
 
Meako I'd edit your thread before you get popped, language matters in Traditional. Just a heads up.

I still the the OP was in the right for posting this thread. That being said I think he jumped the gun in complaining about the response or lack there of from CS.

That being said, I think this thread is getting out of control and should be moved or locked, preferably the former and not the latter.

THAT being said, I think brownshoe should start contributing to this site with his wallet, cause his mind ain't gettin the job done.
 
Pelikan said:
Manufacturers need to realize we're living in an age where everything's out in the open. It isn't 1963 anymore, where you could pay a magazine a few bucks to write a nice article about you, and subsequently ride off that reputation for the next decade or so. If missteps, hiccups and outright screw-ups occur, people will hear about it. And they'll hear about how the company handled the issue.

The internet has made a competitive marketplace even more competitive, and ensures disorganized/weak companies fall off the map ASAP, rather than linger unnecessarily. Failing to acknowledge this fact is perilous for an upstart business.

Folks can stomp their feet and point fingers all they want, but that's the name of the game.
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I'll say this, the OTHER thing the internet has done is damage a lot of good businesses/products due to people piping up when they are not satisfied, yet keeping quiet when they are; not to mention the damage done by people posting completely unsubstantiated BS. I'm not applying this second part to this thread, just bringing up that the Internet is every bit as adept at spreading dis-information as it is of informing.

Don't get me wrong, this knife should not have left the factory in the condition it's in, and you have every right to be disappointed in it given the positive reputation of the company, but that's just it----the company has a positive reputation because the vast majority of people's experiences with the quality of its products have been positive, including my own. Now, I'll admit it, I spend way (way way way) too much money on knives--it's the only thing that keeps my gun habit in check--but having dealt with SO many products from so many outfits, the averages have worked out that I've gotten to experience customer service from a whole lot of people. I own four CSCs and have never had a problem, either mechanically or aesthetically, with any of them. Do you know whose warranties I HAVE made use of over the years? Victorinox, Leatherman, Buck, Ontario, Schrade, Camillus, Case, Benchmade, Randall and Busse. In short, if I were to limit my knife buying to those companies with whom I've never had issue, I'd have a pretty damned small pool to pull from. And, you know what---I guarantee that the ones I haven't had problems with (like CSC) have produced problems for others (like you). Anyone who mass-produces anything is going to put out a poor one now and again. I know people who will never buy another Toyota, Ford, BMW, Glock, Sig Sauer, Ruger, Craftsman, Honda lawn mower, Lionel Train, Sony, Snicker's Bar or red-headed prostitute all because they had a single bad experience with them. In the face of the vast (and I do mean VAST) number of people out there who conversely have had nothing but good experiences with them, I personally could not arrive at the conclusion that the rest of the world's experience pales in comparison to my own extremely limited experience, and then go on to pronounce their products inferior and to be avoided. Not, at least, before giving the maker/purveyor of the product a chance to make things right.

Now, I realize that technically you HAVE given them a chance to make it right, but do not feel they have done so to your satisfaction. At least you provided us with what your expectations were, so that we can determine for ourselves whether the dissatisfaction is justified or not.

I personally don't disagree with your posting of this topic, and I hope that Canal Street sends you a knife that you're a great deal more happy with. Allow me to humbly suggest, however, that you not rise to the bait of getting into sniping matches with those who disagree with you. Out-unpleasanting somebody has never impressed anyone, nor does it lend any weight to your position. This thread hasn't quite hit that stage yet, but it's bordering on it.
 
t1mpani said:
I'll say this, the OTHER thing the internet has done is damage a lot of good businesses/products due to people piping up when they are not satisfied, yet keeping quiet when they are; not to mention the damage done by people posting completely unsubstantiated BS. I'm not applying this second part to this thread, just bringing up that the Internet is every bit as adept at spreading dis-information as it is of informing.

Don't get me wrong, this knife should not have left the factory in the condition it's in, and you have every right to be disappointed in it given the positive reputation of the company, but that's just it----the company has a positive reputation because the vast majority of people's experiences with the quality of its products have been positive, including my own. Now, I'll admit it, I spend way (way way way) too much money on knives--it's the only thing that keeps my gun habit in check--but having dealt with SO many products from so many outfits, the averages have worked out that I've gotten to experience customer service from a whole lot of people. I own four CSCs and have never had a problem, either mechanically or aesthetically, with any of them. Do you know whose warranties I HAVE made use of over the years? Victorinox, Leatherman, Buck, Ontario, Schrade, Camillus, Case, Benchmade, Randall and Busse. In short, if I were to limit my knife buying to those companies with whom I've never had issue, I'd have a pretty damned small pool to pull from. And, you know what---I guarantee that the ones I haven't had problems with (like CSC) have produced problems for others (like you). Anyone who mass-produces anything is going to put out a poor one now and again. I know people who will never buy another Toyota, Ford, BMW, Glock, Sig Sauer, Ruger, Craftsman, Honda lawn mower, Lionel Train, Sony, Snicker's Bar or red-headed prostitute all because they had a single bad experience with them. In the face of the vast (and I do mean VAST) number of people out there who conversely have had nothing but good experiences with them, I personally could not arrive at the conclusion that the rest of the world's experience pales in comparison to my own extremely limited experience, and then go on to pronounce their products inferior and to be avoided. Not, at least, before giving the maker/purveyor of the product a chance to make things right.

Now, I realize that technically you HAVE given them a chance to make it right, but do not feel they have done so to your satisfaction. At least you provided us with what your expectations were, so that we can determine for ourselves whether the dissatisfaction is justified or not.

I personally don't disagree with your posting of this topic, and I hope that Canal Street sends you a knife that you're a great deal more happy with. Allow me to humbly suggest, however, that you not rise to the bait of getting into sniping matches with those who disagree with you. Out-unpleasanting somebody has never impressed anyone, nor does it lend any weight to your position. This thread hasn't quite hit that stage yet, but it's bordering on it.
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GREAT post. I couldn't agree more.


I am also impressed with Eric's generous offer!!
 
Chill-Pill needed here, but let's not have the thread locked. Language has not yet got out of hand or abusive, good. Discussion is vital and this is a work-in-progress, literally.

The offers made by CS are remarkable certainly. An auto e-mail response wouldn't be a bad idea or time consuming: your knife has been received will be worked on as quickly as is feasible and when ready we will inform you etc. Certainly the knife should not have gone out in the first place, undeniable. Perhaps an immediate replacement of a similar model could have been offered? Fixing a knife is surely more time consuming, uncertain and expensive for the company?

Let's look forward to total satisfaction all round.
 
DP Hunter said:
We are sorry that one of our knives slipped through the cracks like you received. That is the perils of a
Hand made knife company. Looks like we had a bad day. We are also sorry that you have not brought this matter up directly with us. If you would, we would be happy to correct this. The vast majority of our customers think we have a very special product, and we strive very hard to make the best knives made anywhere. We do provide a warrantee however that covers instances like occurred with your knife.

Best regards

Michael@droppointhunter.com
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I was about to add my two cents here but the manufacturer is standing by the product and will make it right. Good enough for me. Case closed.
 
The OP has returned the knife in question to Canal Street Cutlery, I have seen it, and it is a defective knife. There is no doubt that the knife should not have made it out of the factory and in fact the knife itself is not repairable. Unfortunately, the folks at Canal Street do things the old fashioned way and one of the things they don't do is make knives quickly. In this case they need to replace the knife with a new knife.

The knife the OP purchased was a limited run of 28 knives that were made a couple of years ago and there are no knives in the factory to replace it with and currently there are a few half moon trappers in production and when a suitable knife is finished the OP's knife will be replaced. This may take a few days or a few weeks depending on what if any production problems arise in the making of the knife.

There are folks that say the OP does not have an ax to grind, and I'm not sure if he does, but I will say that the OP has gone to great lengths to expose problems with this knife beyond the problems the knife actually has. I say this after agreeing that the knife has numerous problems with it - but the problems of this knife are in the assembly of the guts of the knife and blade, and the OP has focused in addition to that on imperfections in the bone handle of the knife.

The OP used a lens with extreme magnification to highlight and find the problems he discovered with the knife. I looked at the knife without the benefit of a magnifier and I can tell you that the bone handle of this knife does have minute imperfections, but every natural bone handle has these types of imperfections and under extreme magnification you will see these imperfections. There remains a strong possibility given the way the OP examined the knife that when the knife is replaced he still will not be happy with the bone handle. Canal Street will make sure that the warrantee is lived up to and that a fine knife will replace the defective knife, but it will have a natural bone handle, and that handle will have minute imperfections in it that are detectible under extreme magnification.

The OP says that things are also not being handled as timely as he would like. Sorry OP, Canal Street does things the old fashioned way, one thing at a time. It takes time to correct a problem like this, because it takes time to make a fine handmade knife. Canal Street knives are made over a period of weeks and sometimes months. It should be clear that when things are rushed - it leads the kind of mistakes that allowed the OP's original knife to get out in the first place.

I want to take the opportunity to thank those of you, and I want to note that there are many of you, who have expressed support for Canal Street on this threat. Canal Street Cutlery makes the finest production knives being made today and they are committed to doing so. Eric, who has posted on this thread, is one of their cutlers, and it should be apparent that he cares about this issue deeply, and takes great pride in what he does, as does the entire staff at Canal Street.

There have been some comments on this thread about the nature of the internet and the vast communication it brings to bear. This can be used as a good thing, and it can be used as a bad thing to. For instance if you get on a soap box and use the fact that their are kernels of truth in what you say to distort the truth, or express the truth in a slanted fashion, that is not necessarily a good thing. So a balanced view point is also a good thing - I say this because it is possible that the OP has been exceptionally zealous in his analysis of the knife he originally received. That he certainly started with fuel that there were indeed problems with the knife - but given the nature of smooth bone handles he may never be made happy and hand made knives made the old fashioned way with natural material in the handle even if they have exceptional fit and finish may just not be for him.

michael@droppointhunter.com
 
On a positive note, the thread has given me a better appreciation for how things work at a small cutlery shop and how much pride they take in their work. It also shows that the folks at Canal Street truly care about getting a quality product into the hands of their customers. I don't blame the OP for being upset, but I'm glad he'll be taken care of. The waiting can be pretty tough, especially since these days were are used to having things done very quickly. I'm sure it's much easier for me to sit here and counsel patience and understanding that it would be if I were the one waiting on the knife, but hopefully it will all work out for the best and some of us can learn something from the experience.

Regardless of what eventually happens, it never hurts to remember that everyone is human and everyone has good moments and bad moments. I appreciate it when folks are patient with me when I overreact, which happens more often than I'd care to admit, and on my good days I try to extend the same courtesy to them.
 
^^^
You know... I read this thread way more than I should (I'm slow) and even backed out of several replys and I'm glad I did.
My next traditional will be a CS. These guys are top shelf IMO. Old school good people. I might stear clear of the vendor but I'm not satisfied that they are the root of the issue.
Just wondering if this thread belongs somewhere else?
 
The possibility of actually getting a replacement on a past limited run knife would be a reason for some hope and optimism to me. I had a File & Wire that needed to go back to Queen and they had no blades left to replace the one in my knife, nor were they going to make any more. If it weren't a limited run knife that might have turned out differently. But I had wanted the knife in question because it was different and there weren't that many out there. Rarity and ease of repair/replacement can often find themselves at odds with each other.
 
I'm happy this is being worked out. Hopefully everyone will be satisfied with the results. I own a CS muskrat and will tell all of you it is one of the finest knifes I own. I would not hesitate to purchase another. Every company makes a slip up now and then. Lets face it---CS didn't sit around at the office one day and say ---Hey lets put out a bad knife today and see what happens. They are standing behind their work and the experience I have had with them is top notch. As I said hopefully everyone will be satisfied.
 
when you buy a knife you want a good one and if you are selling knives they should be good ones not just close. nothing cracked, bent,or really out of balance. I have a C S half moon trapper that is disgusting and it is the one they sent back to replace the first bad one.No more for me!


B.E.
 
when you buy a knife you want a good one and if you are selling knives they should be good ones not just close. nothing cracked, bent,or really out of balance. I have a C S half moon trapper that is disgusting and it is the one they sent back to replace the first bad one.No more for me!


B.E.
 
We understand, your experience has not been a positive one. The strong majority of ours have been.
 
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