Carothers Performance Knives, Use & Abuse

[steelhunting]

I think most of us are in agreement, but are saying it in different words. I don’t have a problem with him testing the limits of different knives and I know that bfk was sent to him by a member. I’m just saying use the model that is designed for hard use and see how it fairs out. You make a dek 1,2, & 3. You can’t hold the 3 to the same standards as the 2. Just like the hdmc and mc or light chopper are held to different standards. I agree with you 100% which it’s why you now you sent him a dek 2 version of the bfk . He’s going to possibly break it also, but if it does good it’s free marketing for what could possibly be your next model. I am pretty sure some people where disappointed in the bfk and might give the brand a black eye, but it wasn’t the ideal candidate to send x. I’m new to the forum but already have a decent collection or acquisition of cpk and don’t want to see them devalued or misrepresented. I you don’t have a problem with x I sure don’t especially if he sends you to the drawing board to give us a different model.

 

[Synov]

I don't buy a car with any intention of crashing it, but I do consider what car has the better crash rating when buying a car for my kids.

I would say that it's more like buying a car because it survived a demolition derby. Cars in real life use crash everyday. Knives in real life use are not used like JoeX uses them.

Yes, I agree it's good to see how the knife fails, but my point was about which knife survives the tests, not how the knife fails. In fact, a properly designed knife SHOULD fail these tests at some point.

 

[kod]

Before saying the test is valid I'd suggest watching these two on 2x speed, wont take that long

those are basically the same knife, one has a coating the other doesn't. Do they look like they were subjected to the same stress?

As far as takeaways for the brand from the episode of entertainment starring the BFK, my takeaway is despite being overbuilt in terms of thickness it'll still break if you use it like an idiot. So why not offer knives that are objectively better at "knife good" due to being thinner, and will still break if you use it like an idiot?

 

[mb>]

I would say that it's more like buying a car because it survived a demolition derby. Cars in real life use crash everyday. Knives in real life use are not used like JoeX uses them.

Yep agree. The car example in my mind is taking a high performance sports car and driving it offroad until breaks. Weeee. I’m more interested to see Nurburgring times or something, which test the limits of actual car things (in a way I never will ).

Nathan is a good sport. I’d be a little miffed as a manufacturer having my brand maligned with unmeasured abuse. It would be nice if he counted the car chops, stump pries, block and pole whacks, etc. One knife might get 50 more blows than another, with the bend just being an all out “how strong am I today” effort. It’s hard to count with his editing and sped up footage, but you’ve got bipolar guy in the YouTube comments saying “a couple hits” referring to over 120-30 on the pole alone. (Which was after the car door chops.)

One thing is for sure tho. MrX found a way to get some clicks! I had never heard of the guy until the drama unfolded in this little obscure corner of the internet.

 

[mb>]

(Doubletap. Having connection issues with power out today.)

 

[bluemax_1]

Finally got the time to watch the BFK and the 2 Hultafors videos above, and can see the different points posted in the thread.

- As Nate pointed out, the BFK test definitely showed the edge retention of D3V.

- As kod pointed out, the tests are definitely not equal

- yes, this guy needs Kevlar sleeves (and perhaps a vest)

- I think the gas mask is his idea of face/eye protection. I suppose it works, and has decent coverage.

- certainly seems like blades with a spring/softer HT would potentially resist breaking a little better, but that doesn’t really provide ideal edge retention for using it as a knife, so I can understand the “offroading with a sportscar until it breaks”, analogy.

 

[mb>]

After I watched a few other videos, another outstanding result was the handle durability of the BFK. Some other big names came apart well before the guns!

 

[Crag the Brewer]

After I watched a few other videos, another outstanding result was the handle durability of the BFK. Some other big names came apart well before the guns!

I was under the impression that they are Loctited?

 

[Jason M D.]

A few thoughts after watching the videos and everyones comments.

I have a BFK and was surprised at the breaks but better understand why after some of the explanations here.
While not every knife is tested exactly the same, it does give me an idea of what I can do with my BFK if no proper tool is available.
Not everyones “real life” is the same and some use their CPKs and other tools in a manner I probably never will. It may make me scratch my head, laugh, cry lol, or think “cool!”, but I may learn something that will help down the road if I’m open minded.

Hopefully Nathan the Machinist will make a BFKX preorder and call it the BFKX instead of the sound a chicken makes when it lays an egg

 

[mb>]

Craig the Brewer

Yeah, the screws are… red on one side; blue on the other. But the tight tolerances of the pins are the discriminator. No wiggle room.

 

[bluemax_1]

After I watched a few other videos, another outstanding result was the handle durability of the BFK. Some other big names came apart well before the guns!

From the first one I acquired, I’ve had zero doubts about the durability of CPK handles. There’s zero slop in the fitment, and with the full tang handles, no questions about strength.

Then when you see how Nate skeletonizes the tang (on other models), and understand the principles of avoiding stress risers and weak spots, not to mention once you feel the ergonomics of CPK handles…

As I’ve mentioned numerous times in this subforum; there really aren’t any comparable knife makers who focus on EVERY aspect of knife Performance, at the pricepoints CPK does.

 

[Jason M D.]

From the first one I acquired, I’ve had zero doubts about the durability of CPK handles. There’s zero slop in the fitment, and with the full tang handles, no questions about strength.

Then when you see how Nate skeletonizes the tang (on other models), and understand the principles of avoiding stress risers and weak spots, not to mention once you feel the ergonomics of CPK handles…

As I’ve mentioned numerous times in this subforum; there really aren’t any comparable knife makers who focus on EVERY aspect of knife Performance, at the pricepoints CPK does.

In the video he also goes on about the handle and no hot spots.

 

[mb>]

Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here, my scales are pinned. The screw heads simply serve to hold the scales down, but the pins do the locating and shear loads. You can remove the screws and the scales remain in place and are difficult to remove.

The holes in the tang are created on a big CNC machining center. They're spotted, drilled undersized, circular interpolated CNC milled for location, then reamed to size with a carbide reamer. Their location and size are probably the most closely controlled for a fixed blade in the entire knife industry. Similar with the scales. So we need very little clearance with the pins, so we turn them down with only .001" nominal clearance. Everything is a very snug fit with 2-3 pins (depending on pattern). My scales are most definitely pinned.

Perhaps your question is why do I use removable screws on my pins rather than permanently pien pin heads? I like to utilize texture in my scale designs.

Grinding a pin flush to that spoils the texture.

It started with wanting the ability to grind the scales flush to the tang, remove the scales and paint or tumble the blade and return the scales with good return matchup. But when we invested in good CNC the precision we put into the process minimizes matchup issues to the point it is no longer required to match grind a set of scales to a tang to get a good fit. <-- this opens up the ability for folks to swap scales. That was never a driving factor (though the ability to remove scales to resharpen a bare blade is) but the end result is our scales are removable and replaceable, in a large part due to the removable fasteners (rather than piened heads) we use to hold the scales down to the tang. The high precision PINS allow that. They are pinned. There are knives on the market with removable scales where the threaded fasteners don't really constrain the scales, and they can shift around in hard use. Our work is not like that.

This was my first good Nathan scolding for reference. lol

Worth a reread in this context…

 

[bluemax_1]

In the video he also goes on about the handle and no hot spots.

Yeah. A discerning viewer would gain a lot of useful insights to the qualities of a CPK.

Unfortunately, I’d guess that the majority of viewers watching ‘knife destruction tests’, don’t fall into that category (like the unhinged “It broke!” individual).

 

[mb>]

Yeah. A discerning viewer would gain a lot of useful insights to the qualities of a CPK.

Unfortunately, I’d guess that the majority of viewers watching ‘knife destruction tests’, don’t fall into that category (like the unhinged “It broke!” individual).

A lot of “cheap knife survived, expensive knife broke” = expensive knife is a ripoff YouTube comments.

I take exception to this as I unzip my Amazon packages while gazing upon the design and material elegance of my expensive knives. A $4 Chinese Walmart special just doesn’t satisfy the same way.

 

[Jason M D.]

This was my first good Nathan scolding for reference. lol

I don’t remember which of my previous CPKs I changed scales on, but was impressed by the tolerances on the holes for the screws/pins and how there was 0 slop. Had to make sure the scales where parallel with tang and still had a time getting them on.
I thought if Nathan puts this much consideration in this part of the knife, the rest is certainly in order.

Every thing he, Jo, and the crew put out are underpriced compared to what goes into them.

 

[Jason M D.]

Yeah. A discerning viewer would gain a lot of useful insights to the qualities of a CPK.

Unfortunately, I’d guess that the majority of viewers watching ‘knife destruction tests’, don’t fall into that category (like the unhinged “It broke!” individual).

Don’t worry I got the vapors for a moment but then regained my composure

 

[steelhunting]

Good way of saying it Jason, which it’s my point. Like example with the car. If x takes a car with good crash test results and blows it up half the people are going to man I want that car, it took all that abuse and it wasn’t even designed for that. The untrained half are going to say that car is crap the manufacturer is falsifying the crash test. Some sells will suffer and hurt the models reputation. Just the world we live in. I also believe that he has his own prototype coupled with that uniform to bring credibility is shady.

 

[HKP7K3]

I completely missed this thread. Saw the video link Nathan posted in the EDC Pre-Order thread. Never seen any of this guys videos, but I was thoroughly entertained and thoroughly impressed with the commitment this guy has to putting every ounce of energy into breaking a knife. I thought he’d stop stabbing the car door after the 5th time, but he kept going and going and going like the energizer bunny. I can’t see how anyone could be upset by the guy or what he’s offering here. It’s pure entertainment with some rough data points sprinkled in as a bonus. Nothing repeatable from one knife to the next, so impossible to compare. If you hate this guy you are taking things too seriously and need to relax and go drink a beer. You have to hand it to him……..he might be the first YouTuber I’ve seen that actually earns his subscribers through real blood, sweat, and tears.

The BFK held up incredibly well. Better than I expected given the knife isn’t designed or intended for even 10% of that kind of punishment. This does nothing but instill confidence in my choice of CPK for all fixed blade needs. Kudos to Nathan for engaging with him and sending another fun test knife. Can’t wait to see the video.

 

[91bravo]