Carothers Performance Knives, Use & Abuse

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I would buy one also, as a hard use tactical option. Not expecting to skin animals or be super slicer. Like Mr Carothers said I’m sure he gained something positive out of the test. X did a lot of leg work testing the point and geometry of the bfk which led to that test mule. My cars are crash tested but I can expect them to go through a building without being a total loss. If I armor them for that task it’s no longer my car, it’s a tank.
 
I admit I am looking forward to watching Joe X stab the car with it. That knife designed for destruction on metal and wood seems like a great tool for SWAT teams- if for nothing other than ‘hell yeah or yeee-haaww’. I also admit I would want one too…. Just because. 🤪
 
As much as I'm enjoying seeing the development of Nathans's 5"-BOK, I also think that the smaller BFK pattern is not the best use case scenario for an overbuilt type of knife.

However, I do think that grafting that "stabby/penetrator" tip design onto his existing 7" pattern would be pretty darn cool. :cool:

A Super Duty OverKill... SDOK! 😀

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kod said:
Nathan's response seems level-headed, and I actually wish CPK had knives in production that were thinner.

But it seems like some other people in this thread are kidding themselves about soft prybars being needed to pass joe x's totally unscientific "tests". The hultafors is claimed 58-60hrc and like 60% of the thickness, half the weight per length, and 1/20th the cost of a BFK. I haven't used that particular model, but comparable size Moras are perfectly reasonable knives.
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It would seem to me that higher weight per length would be a detriment rather than a boon in these tests. More weight means more force slamming against brick and metal pole, which in turn means more stress on the knife.
 
Also fwiw, I picked up one of those Hultafors GK b/c they're so cheap, why not. I'd say it's more than reasonable, it's actually a good knife, not just for the price. Factory edge is only paper sharp not shaving sharp, but it will peel fine shavings off wood no problem. The handle is big and comfy in all grips. The guard is a little oversized, but you can still get closer to a workpiece than the BFK. The grind is further towards the spine than e.g. a Garberg or Companion, with a noticeable secondary bevel, so closer to a low saber than a zero / scandi. Comparing where the primary bevel ends to the same distance from the edge on the BFK, it's like .118 thick vs .105, so not as much difference in geometry as you might initially think. Obviously the BFK is thicker stock past that point and taller.

I'd probably tell people to get one of those over a mora if they just want a no-bs knife, regardless of joex antics.
 
Instead of focusing on how a knife would pass these tests, shouldn't you first ask why you would need a knife to pass these tests? Anyone who uses these videos as guidance for which knife to buy is probably never going to benefit from it.
 
Synov said:
Instead of focusing on how a knife would pass these tests, shouldn't you first ask why you would need a knife to pass these tests? Anyone who uses these videos as guidance for which knife to buy is probably never going to benefit from it.
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I do not chop concrete, strike steel poles, or stab cars, but admit that I bought a folder simply to check out the lock after watching him beat on it without the lock failing. I was simply curious if it was really that stout and it is.
 
Synov said:
Instead of focusing on how a knife would pass these tests, shouldn't you first ask why you would need a knife to pass these tests? Anyone who uses these videos as guidance for which knife to buy is probably never going to benefit from it.
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I don't buy a car with any intention of crashing it, but I do consider what car has the better crash rating when buying a car for my kids.

It's just a data point. The test will bias towards knives that don't knife good, but it will also show (or at least attempt to) where a knife will fail, it's failure mode, and where it falls on a spectrum.

The problem is folks who see it as a measure of the quality of a knife, rather than an indication of it's characteristics.

(Although, it certainly could shine light on quality issues)

Picking up 1000 pounds from the floor is very impressive. Unless you did it with a forklift.

Doing a single pull-up isn't very impressive. Unless you did it with one arm.

It's a useful demonstration, when viewed by a discerning viewer who understands context.

In the case of the BFK, it demonstrated, beyond any doubt, that the tweaks that I made to the heat treat of CPM-3V to improve it's edge retention through enhanced edge stability did not weaken the steel. This is significant because I'm deviating from the prescribed HT enormously. As I have said many times over the years, it is and always has been the point of my demonstrations.

If anything, my heat treat may actually be tougher than the industry standard. It is absolutely more durable.

If anybody got something else from that, they may have missed the whole point.

And I will argue this test is completely valid and useful for this. Lots of value to it, if you're looking at it correctly.
 
Anybody can make a strong knife from 3V. The toughness is largely baked in.

But a tough and abrasion resistant knife with mediocre edge retention, due to a chippy mushy edge, isn't particularly great. And we solved this problem. Some people seem to be overlooking this and think that toughness is what solely sets our knives apart.

Toughness was the easy part and focusing on just that completely misses our accomplishment. Delta 3V has been around for a while now and some people may not appreciate how revolutionary it's development was and the effects it has had on the high end knife industry. There are many people doing a good job with 3V now, but we are still the best.


Edit: I shouldn't claim to be "the best". There's a lot of very good makers out there with good heat treat. But I can say, with a great deal of confidence, that there are none better. I think that's fair statement.
 
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