Cautious to put my slippie to work

Cory Hess Cory Hess , I get where you're coming from; I am not anti-modern. I don't have an Inkosi or PM2, but my humble Opinel No. 8 out slices my VG-10 Boker Urban Trapper, VG-10 Ladybug, Kershaw Leek, and D2 H&K Mini Axis. In fact, the only thing that might out-slice my Opinel is my Osprey Knife and Tool Warthog in 3/32" CPM154 or Austin Goldman in ~1/16" AEB-L.

At the same time, an Opinel No. 8 is -way- more knife than I need in my everyday life as a suburban-dwelling, construction inspector. I could not imagine dropping a knife in my pocket that is a full half inch longer (closed) than an Opinel 8.

We all have our preferences. I came from moderns to traditionals. I started with an old, bulky CRKT, then my Leek, then my HK, then traditionals. I bought my Boker Urban Trapper well after getting into traditionals. It's a great lunchbox steak knife. I don't need to carry a steak knife in my pocket, though.
 
I'm with you there. I really don't need too much knife either and what I carry has shrunk from large knives to medium sized ones. I don't carry the PM2, as I don't need a knife that large. My Inkosi is of the small variety, so it's the same size as a medium sized slipjoint. About like a GEC 77 or 92.

I'd say that I've gotten to the point where I'm equally in favor of modern knives and slipjoints. I just don't like seeing the misinformation being spread. Every time the subject of modern folders comes up in the Traditional sub the same nonsense gets spouted. Obviously we all like traditional knives, that's why we're in the traditional sub. They're plenty good enough to stand on their own merit. We don't have to sully the conversation with lies in order to try to prop them up.
 
Personally, I like both 'moderns' and 'traditionals'. I DO find that, in MANY cases, a well-made traditional will outslice a lot of moderns. In my earlier post, I mentioned that there are modern OHO folders that are the equal of well-made traditionals (including SAKs) at cutting/slicing. But it's also undeniable that many high-dollar moderns sacrifice cutting ability for style, or to be 'overbuilt'.

I personally carry multiple knives daily because the SAKs I carry each complement the other with their different functions (Pioneer and Executive). Then my OHO is there to handle tasks that require a bit 'tougher' cutting chores, or if I have imminent need to access a knife quickly with one hand. So far, the latter 'imminent' need has never really surfaced yet, other than for convenience, but IMO it's good to have that ability. All of my carry knives get daily use, although admittedly, my Pioneer sees more use per day than the other two. If I wasn't wearing cargo pants, then carrying these multiple knives *might* become a bit of a hassle, but otherwise it isn't.

Jim
 
Cory Hess said:
If you are intent on using your slipjoints I agree that you should put your modern folders away somewhere where you can't easily get to them. If you can get to them you'll probably use them because they're more convenient and require less maintenance. ;)

If your fathers and grandfathers had easy access to harder modern steels they would have happily tossed those old slipjoints in the trash. My father has gone his whole life without owning a cell phone and he talks on the phone much more than I do. Does that mean that I should limit myself to using a landline? I don't see the sense in that.

I've never owned a slipjoint that sliced as nicely as my Inkosi or PM2. I'd be interested to hear what slipjoints everybody is using that is so superior to anything a modern folder is capable of. I've tried GEC, Queen, Case, Rough Rider, Buck, Victorinox, etc. etc. etc.

Slipjoints are fantastic. They're pretty, they age gracefully, they're a ton of fun to collect, etc. However, if you find yourself reaching for your modern knife over your slipjoints it seems silly to try to force yourself to use and carry a slipjoint. I went through this myself when I first started carrying a modern folder. I'd carry a slipjoint along with it because I had some feeling of betrayal if I didn't. I've gotten over that now, and I usually just have my Inkosi on me. I still fondle and use my slipjoints around the house, and I still really love them. However, now that I'm carrying a modern folder I no longer feel the need to carry multiple knives around with me.
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Cory Hess said:
I'm with you there. I really don't need too much knife either and what I carry has shrunk from large knives to medium sized ones. I don't carry the PM2, as I don't need a knife that large. My Inkosi is of the small variety, so it's the same size as a medium sized slipjoint. About like a GEC 77 or 92.

I'd say that I've gotten to the point where I'm equally in favor of modern knives and slipjoints. I just don't like seeing the misinformation being spread. Every time the subject of modern folders comes up in the Traditional sub the same nonsense gets spouted. Obviously we all like traditional knives, that's why we're in the traditional sub. They're plenty good enough to stand on their own merit. We don't have to sully the conversation with lies in order to try to prop them up.
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I don't have a Inkosi or a PM2, but in general, modern knives tend to be thick and don't slice as well as a thinner traditional style knife. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general that's what I've come across. Can a modern knife be made a slicer? Sure, it's just blade geometry.... many people want a folder that you can abuse and cut sheet metal with, therefore the blades are thicker. If you are going to respectfully use a knife, a traditional can do heavy tasks just fine. If you want to cut a soup can in half..... then maybe not.
 
There is a simple design factor which usually makes a modern folding knife worst at slicing/cutting: grind lines!
Most modern knife fans want to see those wicked grind lines, and for them to really show the base material has to be thick and the bevels shouldn't go up to the spine either. All that bulky steel in the blade create unnecessary wedge, while for traditionals the main goal was having a thin slicey blade.
In the end, if it is actual cutting, than your goal will be achieved with a traditional with no problem.
 
Woodrow F Call said:
I don't have a Inkosi or a PM2, but in general, modern knives tend to be thick and don't slice as well as a thinner traditional style knife. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general that's what I've come across. Can a modern knife be made a slicer? Sure, it's just blade geometry.... many people want a folder that you can abuse and cut sheet metal with, therefore the blades are thicker. If you are going to respectfully use a knife, a traditional can do heavy tasks just fine. If you want to cut a soup can in half..... then maybe not.
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I have no idea where you're getting your information, but you're just plain wrong. There are modern knives that are ground thick. There are slipjoints that are ground thick. There are modern knives that are ground thin. There are slipjoints that are ground thin. I've gone through dozens of modern folders over the last year and the only ones that didn't slice better than every single one of my slipjoints were the Hinderers. I bought the Hinderers as a curiousity knowing that they weren't going to slice well.

Also, I'd say that traditional knives can do heavy tasks just fine, as long as you're willing to destroy the fit of the knife. As I've already stated, I haven't had a single slipjoint last more than a couple months in my pocket without developing serious blade rock. I've had dozens that have developed slop, everything from $5 cheapos to expensive customs. The construction of a slipjoint just doesn't hold up compared to modern methods, and modern folding knives are very easily adjusted whereas slipjoints take a considerable amount of time to adjust.

I'll repeat myself in saying that slipjoints are fine knives. They stand up on their own two feet. We don't have to lie about how great they are or how terrible other knives are in order to boost their worth. The comments in this thread are no different than saying that most people that carry a slipjoint do so because they need a bottle opener on their knife. It's simple ignorance, plain and simple. As a group we're better than that.

S stezann My goal with all of my knives is actual cutting. I've gone through hundreds of slipjoints. None of them were up to the task. I went through so many because I was continuously looking for a knife that would serve me better. When I finally accepted the fact that I'd have to put aside my aesthetic preferences in order to get a knife that functioned up to my standards I started looking into modern folders and immediately found several knives that easily held up to the work. It's funny that you say that aesthetics prevent modern knives from cutting, because I've found the exact opposite to be true. Traditional knives sure do look pretty, but if you want to do some actual work you'll be much better served by a modern locking folder.

There's a reason that the vast majority of the knife carriers are walking around with modern folding knives. It's not because of wicked grind lines or because they are mall ninjas. It's because, functionally speaking, modern knives are the better tool. To pretend otherwise is just plain silly.
 
The Buck 110 knife seems like a pretty tough traditional knife if you are looking for a traditional knife that can handle an extra couple whacks.
 
Cory, what are you typically cutting that has loosened the pin construction on traditionals? I have no doubt that this is possible, but it may help others understand your point of view if you describe what it is that you're doing.
 
36 years ago as a Cub Scout I was taught that knives were meant to cut things. Knives without hilts weren't meant to stab and no knife was meant to be a prybar or heavy use screwdriver. I was taught how to use my knife to cut things. Funny enough all through my years in scouting and then camping and hunting, I always used slipjoints like Swiss Army knives and Case knives for every single camp knife chore. When it came to firewood I used an axe or saw. It's all about using the right tool for the job. Now having said all that I am the proud owner of an entire box full of lock backs and modern thick spined exotic steeled high speed opening knives. And a whole pile of fixed blade knives. But I always reach for a Case or SAK when I have to cut something. When I've got to split some wood I get an axe.
 
Wurrwulf said:
Cory, what are you typically cutting that has loosened the pin construction on traditionals? I have no doubt that this is possible, but it may help others understand your point of view if you describe what it is that you're doing.
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I use my knives for general duty. Whatever I come across. Materials I commonly cut would include cardboard, food, plastic banding, tape, paper, etc. During warm months I'll also use my knives to shave wood. Once in a while I'll have a heavier duty job such as cutting rubber or carpet or some such, but those tasks come up only every couple of months or so. It's not any specific task that causes the pivot pin to loosen. It's repeated mundane tasks, though a tough job is also very likely to loosen a pivot pin.

I am not alone in experiencing this. You can see pivot pins that are no longer flush on many knives you run across in the wild and in many pictures posted right here in this forum. Over time and use the pins deform and begin to move within their holes. This causes the blade slop.

I carried traditional folding knives exclusively for years and they work just fine. Heck, I bought into the hype that they were better for cutting than modern folders. Then I started routinely carrying a fixed blade. I found that I'd reach for the fixed blade over the slipjoint more often than not because I didn't have to worry about messing up the fixed blade. It just worked without the fuss. Much more recently I've begun carrying a modern folding knife. I've found out why so many people prefer this style to slipjoints. They combine the convenience of a folding knife with the ability to work without worry about damaging your tool, like you get in a fixed blade.

One of the benefits of modern folders is that most are screwed together so that you can simply tighten the pivot screw back up. I have a couple of slipjoints that use screws at the pivots as well. It's a great thing to be able to tune your knife without having to peen, sand, and polish the pivot pin and bolster. It's not as aesthetically pleasing, but then we're back to the form vs. function argument.

Nowadays, my slipjoints are admired and used as worry stones more than they're used as cutting tools. I'm of the opinion that this puts me in the majority among members of the porch. I've long felt that I was on the outside looking in here because I was more worried about how a slipjoint performed than how it looked. Now I can join the ranks of those that are more worried about aesthetics when it comes to slipjoints because I have better options for actual cutting. This doesn't mean that I'm willing to pretend that they're more than they are. They are a link to a bygone era when there were no better options. Those better options exist now, which is why the vast majority of people turn to modern folders over slipjoints.
 
I kind of agree with everyone.
And I kind of disagree with everyone.

I have modern folders which will outperform my traditional knives. They cut longer without having to sharpen them. Many have blade geometries which make them superb slicers.

On the other hand, I carried and used knives for decades before I bought any of those modern designs. I carried the same stockman every day for over 10 years cutting all manner of nasty things. It got dull reasonably quickly, but held up quite nicely as far as blade play or spring strength. And it sharpened up well on a Washita natural stone with not much work.

So, I agree that many modern folders will slice nicely and hold an edge a long time.
But, I disagree with the thought that you cannot use a traditional folder for hard work. I know you can because I did it for decades.

Carry what you like.
Don't look down on anyone else for what they like.
This is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be fun.
 
Cory, i get your point, and i have no doubt that is your own genuine experience.
I often wonder, looking at "modern" traditionals how they really would perform, since mass production don't look spot on with a kind of knives i'd like to picture to myself as clockwork jewlery... you should try a custom made by a serious knifemaker and i am sure you will change your mind about the peened construction solidity. I promise you would have hard time trying to loosen a though steel's pivot pin from though steel's properly chamfered pivot hole...it is another realm, as well as actual domed pins securing scales.
My point is that quality should be good, regardless the construction method.
As far as the steel choice is concerned, i wouldn't shave my face with the last high carbides supersteel, as well as i wouldn't cut hundered feets of sandpaper with my carbon steel straight razor...a world is in between, ever capturing our interest into this passion.
 
IMHO, the Buck Glacier crosses the best of both worlds; traditional and modern. Great knife.

Rich
 
stezann said:
you should try a custom made by a serious knifemaker and i am sure you will change your mind about the peened construction solidity. I promise you would have hard time trying to loosen a though steel's pivot pin from though steel's properly chamfered pivot hole...it is another realm, as well as actual domed pins securing scales.
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I've had custom slipjoints by well respected makers loosen up on me after use. I might just be extra hard on them, I don't know. I'm currently on a couple waiting lists and am hoping to have a custom slipjoint with screwed pivot construction relatively soon. I currently have only one slipjoint that uses screws, and while I like it quite a bit I'd like to get my hands on one that's more aesthetically pleasing.
 
While slip joints served our fathers and forefathers for many years, while I have one in my pocket each and every day and I don't seem to find myself lusting after anything but slipjoints online or at antique shops, I have also found that a modern folder is a better tool. Specifically for me, a modern multi tool, a Leatherman Wave.

My wife and I moved deep into the bush last year to a property without running water or power. Before this, I only carried one, 2 bladed slip joint. A boker 494 barlow or a GEC 72. This did me for multiple years working at the machine shop, my day to day city life. I never found my knives lacking. Frankly I still don't in terms of cutting.

What I have found though when I am fixing a water pump line deep in the back 40, maintaining various mechanical devices or putting up fence, my multi tool is indispensable. When I have to splice a water line because a porcupine has knawed through it, water is pouring everywhere and I am literally cutting underwater, my modern multitool with stainless steel and locking blades make things so much easier. I may not get back to the house until dark and to have to go and clean and dry and oil and sharpen my carbon slip joint when I am beat and ready to hit the hay, it just is not practical. Covered in concrete dust, brake fluid, mud or whatever, the multi tool keeps working and rinses off under a hose when I am done.

Part of this is I can send said multi tool back to its original manufacturer if it is damaged and receive a new or repaired one within a week is huge for me as well. As a knife nut, I cringe when anybody pries or scrapes corrosion or gasket or anything that is not cutting but my modern multi tool excels here. In the past week it has opened feed bags, scraped paint, scraped a gaskey, replaced an electrical outlet, chamfered pipe to prepare for a splice, trimmed branches, opened paint cans, notched wood, prepared tinder, tightened screws, scraped gunk off a spark plug, cut twine for hanging jerky, harvested herbs, removed a fish hook, pulled thorns, helps stitch some leather,cut sap out of my dogs' fur and many more things. Just no food prep LOL! Replaceable, hardworking and robust. I too have had myslip joint pivots on every slip joint I have daily carried for any period of time loosen. I don't worry too much about it but what Cory Hess says about screw construction, for a knife used truly and only as a tool, really resonates.

In the end, I have a place for both. A slip joint or two always in my pocket and a multi tool on the belt. One purely a tool and one an item I really enjoy using and brings a little more warmth. Both part if being a knife nut.
 
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A couple thoughts........ Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a decent slipjoint go loose on me even after hard cutting jobs. Not a Buck or a Case or a Schrade or a Victorinox. Ever. And I'm a guy who broke down a refrigerator box with my Case Peanut!

Next: I've never thought of a pocketknife as a tool like you might a hammer or a screw driver. For me, it's not the type of tool I'd keep in my toolbox (there, you'll find a couple Stanley type razor cutters, but not a folding pocketknife of any kind). To me, a pocketknife belongs to a different category of tool. It's more of a personal item that rides along in my pocket every day to help tackle life's little chores, be they cutting up an apple, breaking down a cardboard box, opening the mail, opening one of those *&*@$%* blister packs, cutting off a zip tie, trimming a thread, pruning my tomato plants, sharpening a hotdog stick, and so forth. For these tasks my personal preference -- smallish, easy-to-carry old school pocketknives -- have never let me down. YMMV.

-- Mark
 
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I gave up on what I like better traditional or modern. I would miss both equally if I had to choose. Everyone here touches on good points and were all saying essentially the same thing we all have passion for personal sharp things. Try to decide between a CR Mnandi or a Case/Bose you can't there both cool just different artists. I think the real big question is where is the evolution going? slip joints are not dying.
Some cool stuff coming out with amazing steel technology in both styles.
 
I like how this discussion is going on! In the end a pocket knife is a little tool, and everybody choose their own "toolbox" depending on their activities. Specifically, tasks that are not planned, but somewhat likely to happen.
And what i believe it is not less important... being strongly a personal item, it should also be able to somewhat mirror, to represent ourselves and the way we like to be. A so close item that end being something like a living extension of our personality.
 
I carried a Buck Spitfire for about a month last year. It was handy to pull it out and flick it open one handed. It was so much easier to grab than the SAK at the bottom of my pocket. It was also a royal pain getting to my keys or loose change with that knife blocking half my pocket. I suppose if I were in a situation where I'm pulling out my knife many many times a day I'd carry it. For just cutting chores though, I pull my knife out 3 times a day maybe. I have a SAK so I pull that out for a lot of chores besides cutting.
Anyway I understand the attraction of modern folders, just find them cumbersome clipped on my pocket
I'd also like to add that only twice had I loosened pins on a knife. One was a sak that I was trying to unscrew a screw. Had great purchase but was tight, so used a channellock on the knife to turn it. Twisted the screwdriver/caplifter and loosened a pin. The other time was a cheap chinese knife back in the 80's, I think I gave it a wrong look, just unflicked the blade and it was loose.
 
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