Cayanne Pepper?

[nemoaz]

Mea culpa as well. It's time to agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Don Rearic]

I agree--we ventured into a topic better suited for the Political Discussion forum. I took this thread into a direction it shouldn't have gone (and I accept responsibility for doing so), one that has nothing to do with Wilderness and Survival skills.

Let's leave it dead.

I really don't care to continue it, the discussion. I've watched two Oncologists dangle a carrot in front of my Dad basically making him a lab experiment. I know people now benefit from the horrendous types of chemotherapy that were used pre-1995 but the way it came about does not sit well and it IS a FACT. I watched the same, sad story unfold quite a few times in the 1980s. I myself have been treated like sh*t in an ER when I have been nothing but polite.

The insurance angles and all of the rest mixed up with astronomical greed is probably something best not discussed anymore without some type of context and that context you have cited without knowing it really.

This type of thread is NOT for the political forum. Just because a hospital or doctor's office is not in the wilderness, that makes no difference. This is still a survival related issue. A nut or knucklehead doctor, nurse or profit-over-everything-else hospital will kill you just like hypothermia will. So, a thread like this with the careful reminders to walk out of a doctor's office if he doesn't act like he cares about anything other than your insurance card being current or your check clearing is a matter of survival.

 

[magneto]

I really don't care to continue it, the discussion. I've watched two Oncologists dangle a carrot in front of my Dad basically making him a lab experiment. I know people now benefit from the horrendous types of chemotherapy that were used pre-1995 but the way it came about does not sit well and it IS a FACT. I watched the same, sad story unfold quite a few times in the 1980s. I myself have been treated like sh*t in an ER when I have been nothing but polite.

The insurance angles and all of the rest mixed up with astronomical greed is probably something best not discussed anymore without some type of context and that context you have cited without knowing it really.

This type of thread is NOT for the political forum. Just because a hospital or doctor's office is not in the wilderness, that makes no difference. This is still a survival related issue. A nut or knucklehead doctor, nurse or profit-over-everything-else hospital will kill you just like hypothermia will. So, a thread like this with the careful reminders to walk out of a doctor's office if he doesn't act like he cares about anything other than your insurance card being current or your check clearing is a matter of survival.

Sorry to hear all that Don, you know I think greed does play a big role (my opinion). I had a hunting accident where I broke my back and neck, obliterated my nose along with a massive concussion. Luckily I was taken to the hospital, only to be pushed into a corner. Why? Could it be because I didn't know who I was or where to tell them my insurance card was? I laid there and suffered from sometime after dawn to sundown. With no one touching me or even looking my way. I had just seen Jacobs ladder and honestly thought I had died and was in hell. I even stopped and asked the doctor was I dead, he said no and kept on going. Only after my family showed up did they do anything for me. But of course for every horror story I am sure there are some good ones as well. Just my small experience.

 

[Don Rearic]

Sorry to hear all that Don, you know I think greed does play a big role (my opinion).

To think otherwise is rather foolish, I think. It's a business and the older I get, the more I question the role that business should have in public services like hospitals and power companies.

I had a hunting accident where I broke my back and neck, obliterated my nose along with a massive concussion.

Sounds like shades of Hank Williams Jr., hope you came out better.

Luckily I was taken to the hospital, only to be pushed into a corner. Why? Could it be because I didn't know who I was or where to tell them my insurance card was? I laid there and suffered from sometime after dawn to sundown. With no one touching me or even looking my way. I had just seen Jacobs ladder and honestly thought I had died and was in hell. I even stopped and asked the doctor was I dead, he said no and kept on going. Only after my family showed up did they do anything for me. But of course for every horror story I am sure there are some good ones as well. Just my small experience.

I would say your assumption is correct. Of course, if someone chops three toes off with a Kubota down at the field adjacent to the Wal-Mart parking lot and he's obviously not a legal immigrant to this country, they will treat him/her without any hassle. You, on the other hand, must produce identification, social security number, name, address, phone number and the rest of it for collection purposes. I know this to be a fact because it happened to my wife two years ago. She had something parading as appendicitis - they started an IV in her, temperature and BP and that was that until they had the info they wanted. They were more interested in asking her what her social security number was instead of what medications she was allergic to or what other maladies she may have had. I was there, I know.

After waiting for the information, then they were quite concerned that she could be dying, they sure didn't show that degree of concern until she answered all of the billing questions. People say that the government should not be involved in health care because it would be horrible. In every experience I have ever had with modern health care, the experience was a nightmare. If you have heavy duty insurance coverage and/or you're wealthy, I'm sure that things are quite different - for regular people, it's a toss up.

I think modern medicine has done some wonderful things but the whole idea that you can be in a community where there are 100 people and 75 of them treat you decently and that somehow gives the remaining 25 people the right to kick you in the nuts and then demand money for it is absurd.

 

[2dogs]

Don I don't think your comments are appropriate for this board re immigrants. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

This thread should be locked.

 

[kr1]

I will be the first to admit that I don’t know if you guys are in inner cities or what but as an active EMT with a fire department I can tell you that I have never asked about a patient’s ability to pay as a prerequisite to treatment. First, that is illegal. Second, my only concern is to the patients well being. I am first and foremost an advocate for the patient. That doesn’t mean that we don’t ask about coverage, we do, but never to the exclusion of the patients health or treatment. Many times patient identification is useful so that past history can be gotten easier. If you are heading to the same hospital that you have been ten or fifteen times before it is useful to get exact patient data. Name is not always good enough to identify a person. The unique SSN or insurance card is. Also many people who have never been in that situation with an injured or sick person don’t really understand what we do and what we are looking for. We try to clear life threats immediately. Other things like pain management may take more time to mitigate or may not be able to be done at all because of other reasons. Pain often is diagnostic. If it is taken away then the doctor may not be able to correctly diagnose.

Also, I don’t care if you speak English or are dirty or you are wearing Mink, or spewing fluids and solids from every orifice, when you are in the back of my ambulance I have a very simple personal rule: I treat you medically to the absolute best of my ability. Nothing less is acceptable. I have to say that all of the EMT’s that I know do the same. I have to use the word all, not most. I would not tolerate anyone who treated a patient differently because of ability to pay or any other reason. I try to treat my patient like I was treating my mom or dad or wife or child, because that is how I would want my mom or dad or wife or child treated. As EMT’s we see people that many times cannot do anything for themselves including communicate. For many it is the absolute worst day of their lives. Many times they have never been sicker or more injured than when I see them. I consider that to be an awesome responsibility and a position of tremendous trust. I have a conscious and would not be able to sleep at night not knowing that I have done the best job for someone that I could have done. It is hard enough to sleep some nights even knowing that I have done the best I could do.

I will say one other thing. If you don’t come in by ambulance most hospitals give you lower priority unless you have a symptom such as chest pain. Anyone who comes in by ambulance gets a higher priority. That is not always fair but that is how it works in many hospitals. If they came in by ambulance it is assumed it is an emergency. I have come in to the ER many times with patients that are triaged because they are stacked in the hallways because the staff is just over worked. Like I said, I am an advocate for that patient I brought in. I need to explain to the staff what priority s/he should be and why I believe this patient should be treated before the person that has been moaning in the waiting room for 4 hours. It isn’t easy on the ER staff either. No one wants to give shitty medical treatment. No medical professional wakes up that morning and says I hope I can keep suffering people in the ER longer than necessary to prolong their suffering.


You may lock the thread but this needed to be said. I don't doubt what you are saying but it is not the norm.

KR

 

[Don Rearic]

KR,

I was not speaking about EMTs, they are bound to treat people and they do treat people without question and I know of no circumstances where they have turned people away.

I also know that like Doctors, they often work incredibly long hours and sometimes they end up crashing and dying in accidents because of the state, county or city governments they work for - tragic.

My comments are about *health care* in this country. That doesn't necessarily mean that every facet of "health care" is being addressed by me.

To continue:

Don I don't think your comments are appropriate for this board re immigrants. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

This thread should be locked.

Yes, kill any discussion about something you don't agree with, that is also progress - just for your point of view. I said nothing about "immigrants," I was speaking about illegal immigrants, huge difference. If you don't know what an "anchor baby" is or the rest of the problems we are having - I don't know what to tell you, further, I don't really care.

When one speaks of illegal immigrants, one is speaking about criminal activity, nothing more and nothing less. When you promote the breaking of this country's laws in order to undercut working people here, that's un-American. These people are not "doing work Americans won't do," they're working for wages and under conditions Americans won't work for or under.

This is considered "free market capitalism" by those that support it, unfortunately, they have to break the law in order to do it and they lower the standard of living for people here.

The Mexican Government protests when we try to stop the flood of illegal immigration into this country, that should tell you something. Meanwhile, entire health care systems are collapsing in parts of this country so criminals can obtain medical care for free while people who were born here and have lived in this country all of their lives not only have to pay double for the health care they receive from a hospital, when the system, a hospital, finally gets to the point where it is going to close down, the federal government has to step in to save it. But the money does not come from the federal government, it comes from taxpayers. We are footing the bill for health care that we cannot and do not receive, criminals receive it.

 

[task force k]

KR,

I was not speaking about EMTs, they are bound to treat people and they do treat people without question and I know of no circumstances where they have turned people away.

I also know that like Doctors, they often work incredibly long hours and sometimes they end up crashing and dying in accidents because of the state, county or city governments they work for - tragic.

My comments are about *health care* in this country. That doesn't necessarily mean that every facet of "health care" is being addressed by me.

To continue:



Yes, kill any discussion about something you don't agree with, that is also progress - just for your point of view. I said nothing about "immigrants," I was speaking about illegal immigrants, huge difference. If you don't know what an "anchor baby" is or the rest of the problems we are having - I don't know what to tell you, further, I don't really care.

When one speaks of illegal immigrants, one is speaking about criminal activity, nothing more and nothing less. When you promote the breaking of this country's laws in order to undercut working people here, that's un-American. These people are not "doing work Americans won't do," they're working for wages and under conditions Americans won't work for or under.

This is considered "free market capitalism" by those that support it, unfortunately, they have to break the law in order to do it and they lower the standard of living for people here.

The Mexican Government protests when we try to stop the flood of illegal immigration into this country, that should tell you something. Meanwhile, entire health care systems are collapsing in parts of this country so criminals can obtain medical care for free while people who were born here and have lived in this country all of their lives not only have to pay double for the health care they receive from a hospital, when the system, a hospital, finally gets to the point where it is going to close down, the federal government has to step in to save it. But the money does not come from the federal government, it comes from taxpayers. We are footing the bill for health care that we cannot and do not receive, criminals receive it.

Generally, I try to keep things on topic but this thread has gone in a direction that I can't resist commenting upon. Sorry in advance for continuing to take this away from whence it was intended.

As some of you know, my wife suffers from a chronic illness that requires frequent hospital stays and even more frequently, ER visits. I can share a number of tales of incompetence and arrogance but I'll only tell about our latest adventure. My wife was released from hospital last Friday and, on Sunday, we had to go back because she began to suffer from extreme edema...seriously, she looked like a bee-stung Shar-Pei. The ER doc that we drew was one that had previously expressed his belief that my wife was "drug seeking" though she had asked for no medication. He had also previously stated that the "current literature suggest that there is no pain involved in your disease". I asked him to bring me an extract from the "current literature" and he refused. So, this guy runs the minimum tests, fills out her discharge sheet and leaves without telling us. The next doctor, a witch with a capital "B", sends us packing by saying that she is not the treating physician and that there is nothing that she can do. Every time we go to ER they tell us to follow up with our primary...every time we contact the primary, they tell us to go to ER.

We get home to find the phone ringing. It's the ER, calling to tell us that the radiology report had been incorrect and that my wife had to go back to the hospital to be admitted. She has a venous access port surgically implanted in her chest that flows into the Superior Vena Cava and a clot had formed on it that was blocking blood flow into her heart.

My wife's favorite doc there admitted her and wrote orders that she was to be placed on anti-coagulants ASAP which they began FOUR HOURS LATER. Once they had started those, they began to administer other drugs through the same drips set. My wife stated that she didn't believe that two of the drugs were compatible with the anti-coagulants. The nurse gave them through the same drip set and said that she would go and check on their compatibility. I carry a digital version of the PDR and the next time the nurse came to give her the same meds, I showed her the incompatibility statement. She again tried to give them through the same drip set and I told her that I would not allow it until she had the doc come in and speak to me or contacted a pharmacist. She used her Nextel to contact the pharmacist, with a very snide look on her face until the pharmacist confirmed that my wife was correct.

On Tuesday, they performed angioplasty to correct the blockage. On Wednesday night her temperature went from normal to 103 in under thirty minutes. My wife tried to get a nurse to come to her room and after one finally appeared, poked her head in the door and said that my wife wasn't due for more pain medicine for another hour, then left. My wife tried to tell her that she didn't want medicine, that she felt feverish, but the nurse was gone. My wife called me. I called the charge nurse. The charge nurse called the nurse. The nurse went in to get my wife's vitals and found the temperature change and contacted the on-call doctor who arrived 45 MINUTES LATER and sugested that it might be a UTI. It wasn't. A portion of the clot had come loose, passed through her heart and come to rest in her lung.

My wife is 33 and has been dealing with her disease for over eighteen years. This visit to the ER was worse than most but, sadly, not by much.

First: know your disease and medications. Educate yourself against the ignorance and incompetence of others

Second: If you see incompetence, rudeness, laziness on the part of the staff...report it...LOUDLY...until something is done about it.

Third: If you see special competence, compassion or caring...report it, too...even more loudly. There are good people in the medical field...let their bosses know how good they are...let them know how good they are.

Stepping down from soapbox. We may now return to our regularly scheduled thread. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

 

[Don Rearic]

Generally, I try to keep things on topic but this thread has gone in a direction that I can't resist commenting upon. Sorry in advance for continuing to take this away from whence it was intended.

There are several different ways to moderate a forum, styles, if you will.

One style which a lot of people wish to utilize is Zero Thread Drift Style, this has been a failure in the past. Sure, you can make it work, but you won't get real discussions when you're clamping down on discussion.

The other style is to let things drift where they want to go because things can get very interesting indeed.

As for the rest of your comments, my heart goes out to you, I really mean that. All honest people know that wealthy people don't get treated that way and people with absolutely top-notch insurance don't get treated that way. People with lawyers and special interest groups in their back pockets generally don't get treated that way.

On top of all of the other problems in health care, there is a real junkie problem that has set in. As far as I'm concerned, I think all of the laws regarding the drugs should be abolished - if people want to kill themselves - let them do it. Doctors, like a lot of other people, at times they think they're psychics. Your wife goes in there and they deny her pain medication or assume that is what she is "scamming" for and meanwhile, some knucklehead will slip and fall on purpose in a grocery store and they'll give him a bottle of dope with little or no proof that he is even in pain or has a real injury.

It is a miracle that they can even treat a condition like your wife has and they should be congratulated for that, they should not be treated as if they are gods.

On the other hand, the doctor that told your wife that her condition does not really call for pain medication should have his nuts kicked off the side of his face, but that's just me.

 

[magneto]

Generally, I try to keep things on topic but this thread has gone in a direction that I can't resist commenting upon. Sorry in advance for continuing to take this away from whence it was intended.

As some of you know, my wife suffers from a chronic illness that requires frequent hospital stays and even more frequently, ER visits. I can share a number of tales of incompetence and arrogance but I'll only tell about our latest adventure. My wife was released from hospital last Friday and, on Sunday, we had to go back because she began to suffer from extreme edema...seriously, she looked like a bee-stung Shar-Pei. The ER doc that we drew was one that had previously expressed his belief that my wife was "drug seeking" though she had asked for no medication. He had also previously stated that the "current literature suggest that there is no pain involved in your disease". I asked him to bring me an extract from the "current literature" and he refused. So, this guy runs the minimum tests, fills out her discharge sheet and leaves without telling us. The next doctor, a witch with a capital "B", sends us packing by saying that she is not the treating physician and that there is nothing that she can do. Every time we go to ER they tell us to follow up with our primary...every time we contact the primary, they tell us to go to ER.

We get home to find the phone ringing. It's the ER, calling to tell us that the radiology report had been incorrect and that my wife had to go back to the hospital to be admitted. She has a venous access port surgically implanted in her chest that flows into the Superior Vena Cava and a clot had formed on it that was blocking blood flow into her heart.

My wife's favorite doc there admitted her and wrote orders that she was to be placed on anti-coagulants ASAP which they began FOUR HOURS LATER. Once they had started those, they began to administer other drugs through the same drips set. My wife stated that she didn't believe that two of the drugs were compatible with the anti-coagulants. The nurse gave them through the same drip set and said that she would go and check on their compatibility. I carry a digital version of the PDR and the next time the nurse came to give her the same meds, I showed her the incompatibility statement. She again tried to give them through the same drip set and I told her that I would not allow it until she had the doc come in and speak to me or contacted a pharmacist. She used her Nextel to contact the pharmacist, with a very snide look on her face until the pharmacist confirmed that my wife was correct.

On Tuesday, they performed angioplasty to correct the blockage. On Wednesday night her temperature went from normal to 103 in under thirty minutes. My wife tried to get a nurse to come to her room and after one finally appeared, poked her head in the door and said that my wife wasn't due for more pain medicine for another hour, then left. My wife tried to tell her that she didn't want medicine, that she felt feverish, but the nurse was gone. My wife called me. I called the charge nurse. The charge nurse called the nurse. The nurse went in to get my wife's vitals and found the temperature change and contacted the on-call doctor who arrived 45 MINUTES LATER and sugested that it might be a UTI. It wasn't. A portion of the clot had come loose, passed through her heart and come to rest in her lung.

My wife is 33 and has been dealing with her disease for over eighteen years. This visit to the ER was worse than most but, sadly, not by much.

First: know your disease and medications. Educate yourself against the ignorance and incompetence of others

Second: If you see incompetence, rudeness, laziness on the part of the staff...report it...LOUDLY...until something is done about it.

Third: If you see special competence, compassion or caring...report it, too...even more loudly. There are good people in the medical field...let their bosses know how good they are...let them know how good they are.

Stepping down from soapbox. We may now return to our regularly scheduled thread. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

task force k, I am so sorry to hear that. My heart truly goes out to you and your wife, and and just want you guys to know that my thoughts and prayers are with you both. May the Lord intervene on your behalf, for truly He is good and His mercy endureth forever.

 

[kr1]

Generally, I try to keep things on topic but this thread has gone in a direction that I can't resist commenting upon. Sorry in advance for continuing to take this away from whence it was intended.

As some of you know, my wife suffers from a chronic illness that requires frequent hospital stays and even more frequently, ER visits. I can share a number of tales of incompetence and arrogance but I'll only tell about our latest adventure. My wife was released from hospital last Friday and, on Sunday, we had to go back because she began to suffer from extreme edema...seriously, she looked like a bee-stung Shar-Pei. The ER doc that we drew was one that had previously expressed his belief that my wife was "drug seeking" though she had asked for no medication. He had also previously stated that the "current literature suggest that there is no pain involved in your disease". I asked him to bring me an extract from the "current literature" and he refused. So, this guy runs the minimum tests, fills out her discharge sheet and leaves without telling us. The next doctor, a witch with a capital "B", sends us packing by saying that she is not the treating physician and that there is nothing that she can do. Every time we go to ER they tell us to follow up with our primary...every time we contact the primary, they tell us to go to ER.

We get home to find the phone ringing. It's the ER, calling to tell us that the radiology report had been incorrect and that my wife had to go back to the hospital to be admitted. She has a venous access port surgically implanted in her chest that flows into the Superior Vena Cava and a clot had formed on it that was blocking blood flow into her heart.

My wife's favorite doc there admitted her and wrote orders that she was to be placed on anti-coagulants ASAP which they began FOUR HOURS LATER. Once they had started those, they began to administer other drugs through the same drips set. My wife stated that she didn't believe that two of the drugs were compatible with the anti-coagulants. The nurse gave them through the same drip set and said that she would go and check on their compatibility. I carry a digital version of the PDR and the next time the nurse came to give her the same meds, I showed her the incompatibility statement. She again tried to give them through the same drip set and I told her that I would not allow it until she had the doc come in and speak to me or contacted a pharmacist. She used her Nextel to contact the pharmacist, with a very snide look on her face until the pharmacist confirmed that my wife was correct.

On Tuesday, they performed angioplasty to correct the blockage. On Wednesday night her temperature went from normal to 103 in under thirty minutes. My wife tried to get a nurse to come to her room and after one finally appeared, poked her head in the door and said that my wife wasn't due for more pain medicine for another hour, then left. My wife tried to tell her that she didn't want medicine, that she felt feverish, but the nurse was gone. My wife called me. I called the charge nurse. The charge nurse called the nurse. The nurse went in to get my wife's vitals and found the temperature change and contacted the on-call doctor who arrived 45 MINUTES LATER and sugested that it might be a UTI. It wasn't. A portion of the clot had come loose, passed through her heart and come to rest in her lung.

My wife is 33 and has been dealing with her disease for over eighteen years. This visit to the ER was worse than most but, sadly, not by much.

First: know your disease and medications. Educate yourself against the ignorance and incompetence of others

Second: If you see incompetence, rudeness, laziness on the part of the staff...report it...LOUDLY...until something is done about it.

Third: If you see special competence, compassion or caring...report it, too...even more loudly. There are good people in the medical field...let their bosses know how good they are...let them know how good they are.

Stepping down from soapbox. We may now return to our regularly scheduled thread. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

I have to ask if you don't mind, what is your wifes illness? Is the edema "normal" for your wife? If not what was their diagnosis that allowed them to just send you home?

I also agree with everything you said.

KR

 

[shecky]

To think otherwise is rather foolish, I think. It's a business and the older I get, the more I question the role that business should have in public services like hospitals and power companies.

KR,

I was not speaking about EMTs, they are bound to treat people and they do treat people without question and I know of no circumstances where they have turned people away.

I also know that like Doctors, they often work incredibly long hours and sometimes they end up crashing and dying in accidents because of the state, county or city governments they work for - tragic.

My comments are about *health care* in this country. That doesn't necessarily mean that every facet of "health care" is being addressed by me.

To continue:



Yes, kill any discussion about something you don't agree with, that is also progress - just for your point of view. I said nothing about "immigrants," I was speaking about illegal immigrants, huge difference. If you don't know what an "anchor baby" is or the rest of the problems we are having - I don't know what to tell you, further, I don't really care.

When one speaks of illegal immigrants, one is speaking about criminal activity, nothing more and nothing less. When you promote the breaking of this country's laws in order to undercut working people here, that's un-American. These people are not "doing work Americans won't do," they're working for wages and under conditions Americans won't work for or under.

This is considered "free market capitalism" by those that support it, unfortunately, they have to break the law in order to do it and they lower the standard of living for people here.

You and your commie talk. "They're stealin' my job! My welfare, too! Guvmint won't protect my salary from those criminals! Criminals, I say! Even though I can't stop myself from taking advantage of the inexpensive goods and services they provide."

In the mean time, the economy is strong, unemployment has been very low for years, people are living longer and healthier than ever, have a better standard of living, with more and more things to buy and more leisure time to enjoy, and the biggest health risk most of us face is obesity.

If illegal immigrants get the blame for your sob story about the evil medical industry, then why not give them credit for the bounty they've helped create? If illegal immigration is such an evil, why not just let the government declare them legal? Or does the country operate as a zero sum game?

 

[2dogs]

Rearic did I contradict someting you said regarding immigrants? No. You jump down posters throats for no reason. I don't think this forum, W&SS, is a place to discus politics. Go to W&C where you can spout your opinons.

I can also tell you as a full time firefighter/EMT I never withheld treatment on anyone because of race, ethnicity, or country of origin. I have never transported a Pt to an ER and had them turned down just because they were white. I have never seen a Mexican treated faster or anymore thoroughly than an American. Every Pt was asked the same questions, received the same Tx regardless of their ability to pay.

In my town we have a huge population of bums, vagrants, and homeless. By far the greater percentage of them are white. Whether treated by the fire department, ambulance paramedics or the ER, all are treated the same as a wealthy insured resident. This is the only way to treat our fellow man.

 

[Don Rearic]

You and your commie talk.

Hahahahahaha!!!

"They're stealin' my job!

No, they're not stealing my job and I never said they were. Of course, you lie to get your point across because that's all you have.

If I wanted to waste the gas this morning, I could run over to several jobsites where Americans used to make a really good living working but that is over now. If you wish to call me a liar and say that isn't so, I would think that other people would judge for themselves what has happened and believe who they wish to believe.

My welfare, too!

Well, if we're going to have any safety net called "welfare," don't you think it should go to the people that were actually born here or went through all of the trouble to come here legally?

Of course you don't think that!

Guvmint won't protect my salary from those criminals!

I never said that. Do you have any more Strawman Arguments you can utilize since you apparently cannot argue a point without being a raving lunatic?

Criminals, I say!

If they enter the country illegally, they are criminals.

Even though I can't stop myself from taking advantage of the inexpensive goods and services they provide."

Even though I am sentenced to having to learn the Mexican dialect of Spanish in order to get anything accomplished in a store, I assure you, I would not hire illegal aliens to run hot mops on my house or mow my lawn. Of course, you can rant and rave how that's a lie because, again, that's all you have - nothing. Your post is nothing.

In the mean time, the economy is strong, unemployment has been very low for years, people are living longer and healthier than ever, have a better standard of living, with more and more things to buy and more leisure time to enjoy, and the biggest health risk most of us face is obesity.

That's all very interesting political rhetoric, I believed it for years as well.

If illegal immigrants get the blame for your sob story about the evil medical industry, then why not give them credit for the bounty they've helped create?

Running roach coaches to feed other illegal immigrants working construction sites that used to pay much better and cutting lawns, is that what you're asking me to give them credit for? If so, hey, POOF! I give them credit!

If illegal immigration is such an evil, why not just let the government declare them legal? Or does the country operate as a zero sum game?

Because they broke the law to get into the country. Of course, this is meaningless to you. Do you work for a construction company and see your bonus going out the window if we get rid of them or do you own a restaurant where you run illegal aliens in it instead of paying American kids good money to work but the Norte Americano won't work as slaves and occasionally tell you to go get bent when you act the way you are acting in this post?

Rearic did I contradict someting you said regarding immigrants? No. You jump down posters throats for no reason. I don't think this forum, W&SS, is a place to discus politics. Go to W&C where you can spout your opinons.

Go order your wife around, Pal.

I can also tell you as a full time firefighter/EMT I never withheld treatment on anyone because of race, ethnicity, or country of origin. I have never transported a Pt to an ER and had them turned down just because they were white. I have never seen a Mexican treated faster or anymore thoroughly than an American. Every Pt was asked the same questions, received the same Tx regardless of their ability to pay.

And half of this statement is full of Straw Man Arguments that I never said, you and the other guy are in contact, yeah? Hahaha!

As for being asked the same questions, here it is a bit different, I assure you. In California, the hospital does not ask for a DL or SS? Amazing! Perhaps I should move to California.

In my town we have a huge population of bums, vagrants, and homeless. By far the greater percentage of them are white. Whether treated by the fire department, ambulance paramedics or the ER, all are treated the same as a wealthy insured resident. This is the only way to treat our fellow man.

Didn't I tell you earlier that I was not referring to EMTs?

Of course I did.

That doesn't make any difference because you are going to hammer home the point that I am talking about EMTs turning away patients so you can demonize my point of view even though that is not what I have said. Intellectual dishonesty, I hope you treat your patients better than that.

 

[motorcycleman]

And the winner is..... Seriously tho, I´ve enjoyed reading this thread because it has had a lot of food for thought. I think it is appropriate to discuss the topic here. Unfortunately, our country has difficult problems to solve, although they aren´t insurmountable they do need to be addressed. Thanks everyone for putting in your .02 cents worth. (I can´t believe my keyboard doesn´t have the cents sign!! I´m heading to W& C now.) Tim

 

[Don Rearic]

Well, it's just urban survival to me - not necessarily wilderness survival. It's like dealing with scams and scam artists and that was really my point at the beginning that got twisted around because someone took offense at what I said.

When a nurse tells you that urine is sterile, piss on her and tell her it's sterile.

 

[bikermikearchery]

my only concern is to the patients well being. I am first and foremost an advocate for the patient.

I consider that to be an awesome responsibility and a position of tremendous trust.

No one wants to give shitty medical treatment.

KR

The EMT who responded when I was in a motorcycle crash stoled my Knife. I saw him do it. It took a year and cost me many times what the knife was worth, But I got the knife back, An apology from the FD and the EMT got a Little time off with out pay.

A doctor in the hospital told me "why should I care if another Biker looses his leg". I still have the leg. The Doctor is very worried about my Lawyers

Apparently they mistook me for some one that could be intimidated.

 

[task force k]

There are several different ways to moderate a forum, styles, if you will.

One style which a lot of people wish to utilize is Zero Thread Drift Style, this has been a failure in the past. Sure, you can make it work, but you won't get real discussions when you're clamping down on discussion.

The other style is to let things drift where they want to go because things can get very interesting indeed.

As for the rest of your comments, my heart goes out to you, I really mean that. All honest people know that wealthy people don't get treated that way and people with absolutely top-notch insurance don't get treated that way. People with lawyers and special interest groups in their back pockets generally don't get treated that way.

On top of all of the other problems in health care, there is a real junkie problem that has set in. As far as I'm concerned, I think all of the laws regarding the drugs should be abolished - if people want to kill themselves - let them do it. Doctors, like a lot of other people, at times they think they're psychics. Your wife goes in there and they deny her pain medication or assume that is what she is "scamming" for and meanwhile, some knucklehead will slip and fall on purpose in a grocery store and they'll give him a bottle of dope with little or no proof that he is even in pain or has a real injury.

It is a miracle that they can even treat a condition like your wife has and they should be congratulated for that, they should not be treated as if they are gods.

On the other hand, the doctor that told your wife that her condition does not really call for pain medication should have his nuts kicked off the side of his face, but that's just me.

I appreciate, as always, everybody's words of encouragement and prayer. I am a firm believer that it actually does help.

Mr. Rearic,

Once, when we lived in Texas, an ER doc said something similar to this one, that the literature suggested that there was no pain involved in her disease. I replied that I had read somewhere that it didn't hurt to get kicked in the balls and inquired whether he'd like to try it. When the security guard was called, he laughed and said, "Man, that's funny." Turns out his sister had the same condition as my wife. I turned and saw that the doc was scowling at his laughter and asked if he didn't want to Taser me just to make things look good and he laughed again and showed the doc his "social finger". I doubt I'll ever get the chance to thank that security guard but he restored my faith in humanity and gave me a good laugh.

Thanks again, everybody.

 

[task force k]

I have to ask if you don't mind, what is your wifes illness? Is the edema "normal" for your wife? If not what was their diagnosis that allowed them to just send you home?

I also agree with everything you said.

KR

KR1,

Her primary condition is severe Crohn's Disease. It's actually a very misunderstood condition. Most people, doc's included, think it means chronic diarrhea, bowel inflammation, and general GI issues. The truth is that Crohn's can actually appear in or effect nearly every organ system including the skin. For more information: WWW.CCFA.ORG

Chances are good that anybody reading this, knows or loves somebody with Crohn's or Ulcerative Colitis.

She has secondary issues as well, including vertebral dessication and other spinal issues, possibly caused by the massive doses of steroids that were the treatment of choice for IBD for years until Remicade was heralded as the "cure" for Crohn's. My wife was placed on Remicade and developed Pancreatitis and Pustular Psoriasis that turned her extremities into something resembling chewed hamburger.

The edema was a result of the clot that formed around the tip of the catheter that is implanted in her chest because, after eighteen plus years of IV's, it's the only way to gain access for fluid therapy, IV meds, or blood draws.

Now, though she was able to come home on Friday, we've got to wait a week for another test...they found some suspicious areas in one of her breasts during a routine chest radiograph, followed up with a mammogram and now want a needle biopsy.

The kicker for me is that my wife, Kathryn, is such a tremendously good person, giving and loving and caring. She faces each new health problem with more bravery and humor than I am capable of. She runs a local support group for Crohn's patients. She finished the last month of her degree in psychology from a hospital room. She feels like she has to take care of me because a couple of years ago I began to have seizures that remain undiagnosed. Just an amazing, incredible person. Some of us are lucky enough to know people like her...tell them how lucky you feel to know them.

 

[magneto]

The kicker for me is that my wife, Kathryn, is such a tremendously good person, giving and loving and caring. She faces each new health problem with more bravery and humor than I am capable of. She runs a local support group for Crohn's patients. She finished the last month of her degree in psychology from a hospital room. She feels like she has to take care of me because a couple of years ago I began to have seizures that remain undiagnosed. Just an amazing, incredible person. Some of us are lucky enough to know people like her...tell them how lucky you feel to know them.

I know someone with Crohn's, it is extremely painful to her and she to, is the bravest, strongest person I know. Once again my thoughts and prayers are with you and my hat is off to your wife for looking adversity in the eye and refusing to bow to it.:thumbup: Tell your wife she is a real inspiration.:thumbup: :thumbup::thumbup: