Chad Williams aka Ranger288 is NO GOOD!

I'm not going to be the one who makes the rule, whatever it may be. I'll throw in my 2 cents, but the ultimate decision is up to Spark.

I have been having email discussions with Cougar on this very subject, and if it were up to me, we'd have no policy at all. I think the parties involved in each transaction need to state their intentions, and if an inspection period is desirable, then it needs to be agreed upon by the parties involved. Federal law looks to be specific as quoted by Cougar, and BFC and its members may need to follow said law. I don't know for sure; I'm a Firefighter and machinist, not an attorney.

I think the way we have been doing things on the Exchange forums have worked very well up until now, and as I stated, I don't think we need a rule regarding refunds and inspection periods.
 
I quote the published BFC rules, section 5, paragraph F:

BFC DOES NOT ENDORSE, WARRANT OR GUARANTEE ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES OFFERED THROUGH BLADEFORUMS.COM AND WILL NOT BE A PARTY TO OR IN ANY WAY MONITOR ANY TRANSACTION BETWEEN USERS AND THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS OF PRODUCTS OR SERVICES. AS WITH THE PURCHASE OF A PRODUCT OR SERVICE THROUGH ANY MEDIUM OR IN ANY ENVIRONMENT,YOU SHOULD USE YOUR BEST JUDGMENT AND EXERCISE CAUTION WHERE APPROPRIATE. BFC MAKES PRODUCTS OR SERVICES AVAILABLE ON BLADEFORUMS.COM WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO WARRANTIES OF TITLE OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OTHER THAN THOSE WARRANTIES WHICH ARE IMPLIED BY AND INCAPABLE OF EXCLUSION, RESTRICTION OR MODIFICATION UNDER THE LAWS APPLICABLE TO THIS AGREEMENT.
Click to expand...

This is also listed in the rules, section 10, sub paragraph (b):

Products and Other Services. With respect to products and services offered for sale by BFC and third parties or through BladeForums.com: you shall be informed of all terms of the offer, including but not limited to pricing, methods of payment, shipping and handling, credit card information, sales tax, return and refund policies and applicable privacy policies on the screen where you make the purchase.
Click to expand...

You can read this paragraph, along with the other rules, by clicking HERE

EDITED to add paragraph.
 
My problem is not with Bladeforums; it is not with Busse Combat It is with Chad Williams. I have not asked for any rules to be made or changed, or anyone to be responsible, except for Chad Williams. I thought this forum was for the reporting of transactions, Good, Bad, and Ugly. That is what I did. I reported a Bad and now ugly transaction. That's it. I can appreciate the philosophical debates about buyer’s remorse, inspection laws and whatnot. I also want to point out that this is not a case of buyer’s remorse, but a case of misrepresentation and then no willingness to refund money paid.
 
Since copy and paste seem to be going strong here is something I copied from underneath the header of The Good,The Bad and The ugly


This is your area to tell about your experiences (Good or Bad) with dealers, sellers, and individuals you've bought, sold, and traded with.
Click to expand...

Please re-read my original post. I have ask for nothing from anyone except Chad Williams with the exception of some advice. For following the rules and dealing honestly, I have recieved several emails refering to "ruining trading on Bladeforums" and "treatment" of soldiers on active duty. I expressed disappointment in a person and a situation. That is all. Still no response from seller, either here or to me via email.
 
Originally posted by Wulf
Look, I'm in the business of buying and selling. I trade in the public markets, often transacting upwards of tens of millions of dollars a day and all of it is based on trust and fair representation. But in the business of bond trading, once the trade is done it's done. You can't just change your mind after the fact and demand a refund. The markets move and within an hour you've lost $100,000 of your clients' money.
Click to expand...

Right. Bonds are not collector's items; a buyer can't say "you described this bond as new and it has a fingerprint smudge on it so I want my money back."

On the other hand, if you get paid for a $10,000 Treasury bond and deliver a $5,000 municipal bond, you're going to have to make good on that, and claiming the buyer has just changed his mind is not going to impress the judge....

There was an issue here recently where a buyer agreed to purchase a knife and later changed his mind after finding it for sale for less at another source. The members here overwhelmingly agreed that such conduct was unacceptable ...
Click to expand...

Right.

On the other hand, many have claimed on this forum that a buyer doesn't really care that the knife they got is in pieces or rusty or whatever; he's only pretending to care because he's trying to disguise his buyer's remorse, and it's only his word against mine, and I don't have to deal honestly because I'm not a professional dealer, and I never agreed to deal honestly, and so what if I described the knife as new and it's a little rusty, who the fork cares if a knife is a little rusty anyway (NEWS FLASH: Collectors are not reasonable people!) and none of those excuses have saved anybody from getting banned yet.

It has always seemed pretty obvious to me. Whenever you offer a collector's item for sale you take a risk that somebody will look at it and he won't think it's in as good condition as you think it is and he won't buy it. When you sell through the mail he won't get to see it until it arrives, so if you don't want to waste your time sending it back and forth then it pays to describe every little scratch and pit and post pix if possible. (Or if the knife you want to sell is just a user you can just say that and save yourself the trouble of describing the condition in detail.)

There's nothing complicated or mysterious here. There aren't any incomprehensible legal technicalities involved. It's really very simple and obvious.
 
P.S. There is nothing new here. Ever since Bladeforums started, sellers who deliver something other than what they advertised and refuse to make good have been banned. Every time we've banned someone we've posted it on the forum and all those posts are still here on the forum.

In some cases members have been balky about it and have had to be argued with before they made good, and some of the members who seemed to be very balky for a while eventually made good and later developed into some of our best and most trustworthy members. We're not unreasonable here at Bladeforums....
 
It appears as though we all agree on what is or is not acceptable behavior here. Where we disagree is how to insure that members don't abuse one anothers' trust, or exploit one anothers' goodwill. I, for one, think that it would be pretty ridiculous to institute a policy that would allow a buyer to demand a refund without having good reason to do so. I think I've already stated about a billion times in this thread that misrepresentation is certainly good reason to demand a refund - I don't need you to "tell" me so again, Cougar. But you need to draw the line somewhere or else you leave the seller exposed to the slightest whims of the flakiest buyers out there.

And alphamaniv, just so others in this thread don't get the wrong impression, please confirm that you have not received any e-mails from me. Everything I've had to say on this matter has been stated right here on this forum.
 
I have never read the rules or anything like that, but I thought it ws an unwritten rule for inspecting. I always wait for the OK from the other person. I have had to pony up on a few occasions early on when I was a newbie, but to have my name here with negative comments like appear on this forum would kill me. My father brought me up to believe that all a man has is his word. If he does not have that, he has nothing.

I agree with Alpha.


My 2

Cerberus
 
I am not sure how accurate the pictures are, but to be honest I can't see any flaws on the knife. But I will take your word for it. As a matter of fact, the truth is it doesn't matter, if your not happy with the deal, then your money should be refunded (Unless it is because you bought one elsewhere and thats why you don't want it, I don't think thats the case)If there are circumstances that prevent Ranger from refunding your money for a few days, I would say, give him a brake and wait a few days(Payday is the 1st and 15th). If he can't get the funds up by then, I would say send it off to Jerry to be fixed and then sell it to get your money back

Jerry, good on ya for offering to take care of it free of charge.
 
Originally posted by Wulf
If BFC institutes a policy whereby a buyer may demand a refund for any reason, even if the seller satisfies ALL the conditions set forth in the contract, then I will no longer sell knives here.

Whatever new policies you seek to institute, for Pete's sake, keep them within reason.
Click to expand...


I agree. A buyer may return a knife for any reason within the inspection period.
 
Originally posted by notdos
A buyer may return a knife for any reason within the inspection period.
Click to expand...

So if you bought say, a Large Sebenza from me for $250 and the day after you sent payment, someone posted one for sale for $210. You decided to save $40 and send back the one I mailed you for a refund. So that acceptable?? I would refund your money regardless, but that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I know thats not what happened here, just wondering what others think
 
Ok, the trick to digital images is knowing what your doing, which I don't:o My wife put the knife on the scanner at some kind of high DPI setting and here is the original problem. It even picked up some of the scuffs on the blade. Here ya go

BadARK.jpg
 
Originally posted by TheBadGuy
So if you bought say, a Large Sebenza from me for $250 and the day after you sent payment, someone posted one for sale for $210. You decided to save $40 and send back the one I mailed you for a refund. So that acceptable?? I would refund your money regardless, but that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I know thats not what happened here, just wondering what others think
Click to expand...

Imho, that is the risk the seller takes. Frankly, a person who did that on the forum would quickly get a reputation for "abusing the rules" and would/should be warned then banned if the untrustworthy behavior continued. Trust is all we have and I trust the buyer until they give me a reason not to. If you buy a knife from me, open the box and don't like it, send it back. However,,if you abuse the option to return a knife to a seller it will soon become common knowledge.


Phillip :)
 
Ditto Cerberus. In the trades I've done, they're not done until both parties have accepted the product. Same thing for sales. We all have different standards as to what is a blemish, but if you sit back and observe for a while mint means mint to the collectors of safe queens. No marks whatsoever. You had better say there is a small mark in the first place and let the buyer decide if it works for them. In this internet world our name is all we have. Integrity is number one. If you don't have it, you've got nothing.

I hope Ranger288 knows this thread is going and replies. I hope that he has just been doing soldier things and hasn't been able to log on for a while. I always like both sides to the story.

Cheers,
BJB :D
 
Sorry for budding in on this, but it looks like it may be awhile before you get a response from Ranger288, look here. He's getting deployed to Africa .
 
I received several replies by email until a couple of days ago. I could care less if he replies to this or not. It will probably just be the same load of BS that I have already heard anyway:(
 
Alpha's blade is neither in new, nor mint, condition.

He dropped $350 for it thinking it was. Dunno bout you folks, but thats no small sum of cash, and i would certainly be anal retentive if i was in Alpha's shoes.

There's a matter of common sense here, on both parties. No offense Alpha, i'm with you on this, but damn dude... Did you have any reason to trust Ranger? Ever deal with him before?

$350, i can't get over that sum. Let me be perfectly frank with you... That knife would have been shipped to an independant person (moderator/mediator) for an inspection before i dropped ANY cash on it.

I don't see Ranger posting pictures in the thread linked above, but apparently he sent you some as you said you saw only one side?

Here's how i see it;
If this is a $450 blade i'm buying for $350 then i *suppose* that little nick would be acceptable. If on the other hand, i'm paying $350 for a $350 blade, Hell no it's not acceptable.

Regardless, you are'nt happy with it. Contact Paypal and tell them you've been misled and products are NOT as advertised. If you used a credit card thru paypal, contact visa/MC as well and dispute the charge.
Further, you could take this matter up with the soldier's C.O. if you know where he's stationed. I've settled business in that manner before with great success. C.O.s ain't to be screwed with, unless ya like meal tickets.

Next time, set some clear terms *For dealing with You*
"Look, this is alot of cash, so... i need 24 hours from the time i get this knife to make sure it's in acceptable condition"
OR
"First i feel an independant party should inspect this knife and insure me that it's MINT as described, i send him the money, you send him the knife." (pay the mediator $20 or something)

If the seller won't meet you on your request, he probably is hiding something anyhow.

This ain't eBay, no reason we should be worrying about gettin' burned in here.
 
I see the flaw with the up close picture, But I still think Ranger most likely never even noticed that tiny bit of wear. I don't think there was any malice on his part, however is was a bad move spending the cash before you get the e-mail closing the deal from the buyer. I have spent the cash from a sale before the buyer gave me the thumbs up and it came back and bit me as the buyer didn't know much about the knife and wanted to return it. I had to sell another knife to get him his cash the same day.

So for me RULE #1- Don't spend cash till buyer says he is happy.
 
TBG, you describe it as "wear"

Ranger described it as "New"

am i wrong? New to me means never used, i'd assume it woulda been taken out the box once or three times, but beyond finger prints, wear is not acceptable on a "new" knife. Stress again the price tag, might not be much to you, but it is a hell of alot to many of us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top