Charles Lester -- Beware

Well, I'm not going to get in a huge argument here, but I'm going to present the truth for closure.

You did not offer to add extra insurance to me personally. You have removed the original thread, which makes me believe you realized that it had a gray area. I inquired about the knife, you responded, I agreed, and you confirmed with, "I will mail it via USPS with a tracking # ASAP bud. Thank you!!!!" I could have asked you to include insurance (and I was at fault for not doing so), but I was never asked about it during our communication.

There is proof the knife was not in the package when I received it, look at the photo. I would have to assume you didn't place the "RECEIVED UNSEALED" stickers, initialed, where the envelope was torn. I absolutely was delivered an empty box, and I provided my phone number to be called once the situation was sorted out. I can absolutely get proof that I did not receive the knife, and I will happily go down to the post office and see which employee initialed my package.

We both screwed up. I used Gift, which I shouldn't have. But like I stated before, your job as a seller is to make sure I get what I am paying for.

I'm done beating this to a dead horse. I bit the bullet on this deal. I will be claiming my $50 insurance, and I will move on. At this point I just want to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.
 
A "gun safe?" Dude, you might as well have sent it in a zip-lock plastic bag for all the chance it had of arriving intact . . . and then not to insure it? I just can't see how you're anything less than 100% responsible for making this right. Also can't imagine why anyone else would ever want to do a deal with such an irresponsible seller.
 
Packages are only weighed at point of origin, to determine if postage is sufficient. From there, they are simply scanned at checkpoints, and finally when they are delivered. The weight of the package is immaterial once the postage is approved.

Insurance is for the SELLER'S/SHIPPER'S protection. NOT the buyer, as the buyer cannot file the claim. Only the seller can.
 
Marinemp4
Facts:
Purchasing Insurance is for the SELLER.
To protect the seller from just this type of situation.
You can self insure, BUT YOU are responsible for the item to arrive as per your agreement.
The buyer did not put the sticker " Received Unsealed" on the package Case Closed!
Do the right thing and make the buyer whole.
 
Major reason I would never make a purchase through PP listed as a gift. No protection for the buyer.
Most list a added percentage of the total price if the buyer is not willing to gamble.
 
Marinemp4,

Is there any room for compromise? Split the value of the knife. you pay OP pays half (less the $50 Insurance, if that is paid) and reputations are maintained and lessons learned?

Just a thought


Paul
 
The buyer is burned for $325. If the seller agreed to a refund, he feels he is out $650. The whole things sucks, but the seller is to blame for a lack of diligence in making sure the package was secure. An envelope is OK for paper, not knives period.

A good Marine would be the one sucking it up and not the honest buyer who sent the funds. Some painful yet good lessons learned here.
 
The seller should take it up with the post office. Refund the money. You shouldn't need insurance to cover their screw up. You should only need insurance to cover yours that that the post office had no way of knowing about, like not marking a package fragile. If I took my car in to get worked on, would I need insurance if they're the ones who screwed up? Not unless I did something to screw things up that the mechanic had no way of stopping before taking responsibility of the car.

Personally, I think the knife was under packaged, but not negligently so. The only entity that should be out any money id the post office, because they're the one who screwed everything up. Is that a postal envelope sealed and inspected by a postal clerk? Looks that way to me. They took responsibility for it and didn't deliver. Any other time it wouldn't be the buyer or seller at fault, only the mediary. The dude willfully defrauded pay pal, so i don't care, but I would think I'd at least try the post office first before an outright refusal
 
I am curious. Did the seller ask for Paypal gift?
Why would a buyer volunteer to use gift option?
That only helps the seller.
 
bodog said:
The seller should take it up with the post office. Refund the money. You shouldn't need insurance to cover their screw up. You should only need insurance to cover yours that that the post office had no way of knowing about, like not marking a package fragile. If I took my car in to get worked on, would I need insurance if they're the ones who screwed up? Not unless I did something to screw things up that the mechanic had no way of stopping before taking responsibility of the car.

Personally, I think the knife was under packaged, but not negligently so. The only entity that should be out any money id the post office, because they're the one who screwed everything up. Is that a postal envelope sealed and inspected by a postal clerk? Looks that way to me. They took responsibility for it and didn't deliver. Any other time it wouldn't be the buyer or seller at fault, only the mediary. The dude willfully defrauded pay pal, so i don't care, but I would think I'd at least try the post office first before an outright refusal
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Unfortunately, insurance is for exactly that: When the post office screws up (perhaps due in to poor packaging). It's also the only way to document and prove that the shipper shipped a $325 knife, and not just a $5 knife. Unless the seller purchased insurance (which he did not), the post office has no further responsibility in the matter, other than perhaps to take a casual look around and see if they spot any loose items around the trucks or sorters.

What I would encourage the seller and/or the OP to do, if they haven't already, is to call each distribution center listed in the tracking scans, and see if anyone has found the rest of the package. It may help if you can give an accurate description of the part that fell out, I.E., size, weight, packaging, etc...

Apparently not everyone understands this, but when you ship ANYTHING, it's not placed in it's own silk lined, feathery compartment, and gingerly handled all the way to the recipient's house. It's thrown into bins, dumped onto piles, slung onto conveyors, thrown into trucks, ran through high speed sorting machines, etc....

You should package everything as if you expected every postal worker who touches it to play soccer with it, and then throw it down some stairs. And you should never trust the glue that comes on flat rate boxes and envelopes. A quality packing tape is a very small investment, and it goes a very long way to making sure things get where they need to go.
 
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Jensen81 said:
Im sorry that you didn't get your knife. That really sucks and it is an unfortunate incident. I know the seller personally. He is a great guy. He is a good friend, a family man, and an outstanding person. He fought for our country and still continues to serve. He would NEVER screw anyone. He is honest and a man of his word and is of the highest character. This happened at the post office or after it left the post office I have no doubt. I hope that the knife turns up. Good luck!
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If he does not make this right he is neither a good man or an honest man. He made the error, it's his sole responsibility to see the buyer gets his goods and his absolute obligation to remunerate the buyer for his loss.

I can picture someone buying a car. The person pays cash and is told to come back in a week to pick up their new car. When they come back the salesman says "sorry but the car fell off the truck somewhere and we can't find it. Have a nice day".
There is only one thing to do, that's the right thing.....
 
Was he a member or above when you bought the knife because he certainly isn't now?
 
RevDevil said:
I also agree that a person having at one point or presently serving in the military has ZERO bearing on this. I've met a lot of people that served in the military, I wouldn't issue them all halo's just on that fact alone, come on.
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Yes, this post is proving that to be true.
 
Now I'm really confused as to why a registered user is selling on this site anyways.
Doing so is a violation of the rules and is a major 30 point infraction in and of itself.........

This is such a poor show from all angles it is almost astounding.
 
wolfmann601 said:
If he does not make this right he is neither a good man or an honest man. He made the error, it's his sole responsibility to see the buyer gets his goods and his absolute obligation to remunerate the buyer for his loss.

I can picture someone buying a car. The person pays cash and is told to come back in a week to pick up their new car. When they come back the salesman says "sorry but the car fell off the truck somewhere and we can't find it. Have a nice day".
There is only one thing to do, that's the right thing.....
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I was thinking about a vehicle delivery too. 3 stooges trucking. Whoever hires them is responsible . Charles

Charles Lester, You didn't deliver the goods you sold.negligent or not. If it was an act of nature. You owe. You didn't take the necessary precautions to protect yourself. . Its really not complicated. Your doing yourself a disservice by even playing ignorance here. You know that. Turning your back on this issue will not make it go away. Talk to him about making it right .
 
bowmore17 said:
I am curious. Did the seller ask for Paypal gift?
Why would a buyer volunteer to use gift option?
That only helps the seller.
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He did. I should have gone Goods. Lesson learned.

MqaKeik.png
 
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Marinemp4 said:
Ok now that I have been bashed without any "evidence" present lets start with the facts:

Facts- The buyer was offered additional insurance at his cost
- the Seller does not have to include insurance
- There has been no proof that the knife was not included in the package, all there was, was a picture of an open package
- The USPS would have contacted me if there was an issue with the package prior to being sent ( which there wasn't)
- The empty package would not be delivered to an address, a letter from the mail carrier would be left in the (buyer's) mailbox stating such as issue had arisen.
- Everyone here is coming to their own conclusions to a one sided story thus far ( does not surprise me)
- Today, after I received an e-mail from Justin Watts, I called the post office where I mailed it from, provided all information and they stated that their system showed that the package had in fact been delivered. (opinion enclosed here- if the package was delivered at the SAME weight as shipped, that leads me to believe that either 1- someone at the USPS post office in CA took the knife or 2- the knife was received as it is should be and I am being lied to in an attempt to get a free knife)
- I did in fact ship the knife in the package as shown, that package was the exterior of another package in which the knife was wrapped in a small cloth, bubbled wrapped and sealed as to prevent anyone from "knowing" it was a knife to prevent theft.
- The sad thing is that theft does occur whether it be at the Post Office or by someone else. At this time I have been presented with nothing to affirm that the knife was in fact not delivered to the buyer.
- There were no sharp edges or blades poking through the envelope and it was sealed and secured (with the price of shipping placed over the seal, as to ensure the seal is secure)

Opinions- The package that was used to ship the knife was more than secure, whether it be a box, envelope or a gun safe it was still secure.
- I don't believe that without evidence present, I should just bow to the words of someone whom I do not even know. That being said, with the lack of proof that the knife never made it there, I will keep my original answer affirmed. I will not provide a refund. I am sorry if that bothers you but think of me as you will. I have shipped, sold, and bought knives and never once had a problem.
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Under the law in all fifty states, the risk of loss only passes to the buyer on delivery of the item to the buyer UNLESS it was expressly agreed otherwise.
The sender is the only person who can purchase insurance from the USPS and the sender is the only person with an insurable interest = can get paid.
There is "proof" of loss as you would know as an LEO. It's the same proof that send 10,000's + to the slammer every year. What's you contrary proof? The USPS labeled the item as found open in transit. "RECEIVED UNSEALED." See op.
What evidence that the same weight was delivered? That's not what UPS says on the package. Show us that record. If the knife was stolen bu a USPS employee, it is your loss.
If the package was secure or not secure, it's your loss if the item was not delivered to the buyer. Obviously, the law is of minimal interest to some.
 
Marinemp4, No if,ands, buts, you are wrong here period. Your packaging was not proper period. You are responsible for insurance, it's to cover you for a loss not the buyer. Only you can purchase insurance or make a claim. As the seller you are responsible to make sure the buyer receives what he has paid for. Even if it was insured for the full amount the USPS would not approve payment with improper packaging
 
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