Cheap rip off knives....

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SoCalEDC said:
Lightning OTF's
Anyone else own one? Not sure if or who they ripped off but I got to tell you, these knives for the money can take some wicked abuse. I use mine for hard crap tasks all the time. Still ticking.
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Not entirely sure, but I think the design was heavily influenced by some Microtech offerings.
 
CascadianAaron said:
I stopped shopping at Walmart by about the third trip...that place is a vortex of stupidity and despair and that's just the customers. Lots of reasons not to shop there beyond selling knock-off knives. How about the drag on public funds (welfare and food stamps for their employees, police intervention 50% higher than comparable stores).

I can find all I need elsewhere for similar prices (Costco for example) where overall intelligence of the customers and employees is significantly higher and they aren't an anchor on society.
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walmart is walmart, but.......walmart has some buyers who are buck knife fans and have been bringing in to the stores made in america buck knives slightly different than normal models. different scales, sheaths, etc or things of that nature. often better than the normal models, but that's a relative thing. one of the buyers participates on the forums here.

i like some of the ganzo autos. for the money they aren't bad and some are copies and some aren't so obvious if they are. in general their knives are okay quality and fit and finish for the cost, but the stealing of designs is bothersome and wrong.
 
I'm sure Browning knows if they stole the design or not. Point is the design is pretty much the same except scaled down. I think you are arguing against it being a counterfeit which it isn't, just a stolen design. I've only seen the Browning version so it's possible they had it designed or the factory making it designed it. It is a copy in the same manner as Sanrenmu 710 is to a Sebenza 21.
 
The thing about Ganzo knives is, it can not be beat on the value proposition.

Also, it really makes you wonder, for $12-$15 retail through ebay, ali, or dhgate, you're getting REAL 440C steel, G10 or carbon fiber scales, full stainless liners and free shippping.

Now the question is, if Ganzo knives can retail this low with all the above mentioned materials and still make a profit, WHAT'S THE PROFIT MARGIN FROM BYRD, KERSHAW, BOKER, SPYDERCO that are made in China with 8cr13mov or lesser steel that's selling for $30-$50? All these companies sell knives made in China, 8cr13mov is a lesser steel than 440c and you can forget about carbon fiber scales.

The truth is, all these knife companies that sell made in China knives are RIPPING US OFF, the consumers in the U.S. while fattening their own purses!!!
 
Neomentat said:
The thing about Ganzo knives is, it can not be beat on the value proposition.

Also, it really makes you wonder, for $12-$15 retail through ebay, ali, or dhgate, you're getting REAL 440C steel, G10 or carbon fiber scales, full stainless liners and free shippping.

Now the question is, if Ganzo knives can retail this low with all the above mentioned materials and still make a profit, WHAT'S THE PROFIT MARGIN FROM BYRD, KERSHAW, BOKER, SPYDERCO that are made in China with 8cr13mov or lesser steel that's selling for $30-$50? All these companies sell knives made in China, 8cr13mov is a lesser steel than 440c and you can forget about carbon fiber scales.

The truth is, all these knife companies that sell made in China knives are RIPPING US OFF, the consumers in the U.S. while fattening their own purses!!!
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You clearly haven't got the slightest clue how business expenses work...Do you really think that companies like Kershaw, Buck, Spyderco, CRKT, etc. that provide US based customer service, employ people in the US to provide warranty service, and pay US taxes are going to sell knives at the same price as a Chinese company that has practically no customer service, no marketing, no US presence...?
 
Thomas Linton said:
Some of us have gotten over thinking our opinions are received "truth."

Some have not.
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Wow, some solid truth, Thomas.

Ummm...mister Neomentat, did you ever stop to consider that ganzo's price is reflective of the fact that they pay ZERO DOLLARS to developers, designers, QA testers, HR managers and safety inspectors? Not to mention ZERO DOLLARS into employee benefits, taxes and retirement plans? Please stop using "Post Quick Reply". Maybe then you won't contribute what I have to consider to be the least intelligent post I've seen all year on BF.

I think you get a trophy for that...
 
Neomentat said:
The thing about Ganzo knives is, it can not be beat on the value proposition.

Also, it really makes you wonder, for $12-$15 retail through ebay, ali, or dhgate, you're getting REAL 440C steel, G10 or carbon fiber scales, full stainless liners and free shippping.

Now the question is, if Ganzo knives can retail this low with all the above mentioned materials and still make a profit, WHAT'S THE PROFIT MARGIN FROM BYRD, KERSHAW, BOKER, SPYDERCO that are made in China with 8cr13mov or lesser steel that's selling for $30-$50? All these companies sell knives made in China, 8cr13mov is a lesser steel than 440c and you can forget about carbon fiber scales.

The truth is, all these knife companies that sell made in China knives are RIPPING US OFF, the consumers in the U.S. while fattening their own purses!!!
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Wow...
 
Hackenslash said:
Wow, some solid truth, Thomas.

Ummm...mister Neomentat, did you ever stop to consider that ganzo's price is reflective of the fact that they pay ZERO DOLLARS to developers, designers, QA testers, HR managers and safety inspectors? Not to mention ZERO DOLLARS into employee benefits, taxes and retirement plans? Please stop using "Post Quick Reply". Maybe then you won't contribute what I have to consider to be the least intelligent post I've seen all year on BF.

I think you get a trophy for that...
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And how do you know Kershaw, Boker, Spyderco, have all these job positions you mentioned, pay these benefits you speculated, wow I think you should keep that trophy for yourself buddie.

Hackenslash, since you're so smart, please enlighten me just how many of each of these positions each company employ, what their salary is and how much their company contribute to their benefits and "RETIREMENT PLAN" which I highly doubt there is one for such low skilled labor positions you mentioned. Then you have to know their sales data for their knives and separate it by U.S. production and Chinese production. Well then you got to do a cost basis analysis on what ratio of their job/time is devoted to and services their U.S. production line and take that figure out of the equation. Only after that can you begin to start figuring out how much of these overhead you mentioned can be associated to their Chinese production knives.

I happen to have a BA degree in accounting and worked in audit for some years and understand fixed cost and overhead expenses alot better than you. I also understand the way manufacturing expenses works which is why so many companies are going over to China to get products made.

Unless you're the CPA for one of these companies and show me their balance sheet, I have a pretty good idea how much money these companies are making by going to China and skipping all the manufacturing/labor costs. The whole reason they're going to China in the first place is to lower their expenses, the other fixed overhead is already there whether they go to China or not.

The overhead and fixed cost you speculated about these companies most likely exist, and it will be much lower than you think not to mention a lot of it exist to support their U.S. production line.

I'm talking only about the Chinese made knives here, where their cost in production is the same as their Chinese counterpart, but by simply affixing their logo the price triples or quadruples on a knife made by the same facilities is a RIPOFF.

I would bet you money that any of these companies' made in China knives average a higher profit margin than their average profit margin on U.S. made knives. And that my friend is why they're going there in the first place, to chase that higher profit and compete in the sub $50 range knives which accounts for the majority of this knife market pie.
 
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Neomentat said:
The thing about Ganzo knives is, it can not be beat on the value proposition.

Also, it really makes you wonder, for $12-$15 retail through ebay, ali, or dhgate, you're getting REAL 440C steel, G10 or carbon fiber scales, full stainless liners and free shippping.

Now the question is, if Ganzo knives can retail this low with all the above mentioned materials and still make a profit, WHAT'S THE PROFIT MARGIN FROM BYRD, KERSHAW, BOKER, SPYDERCO that are made in China with 8cr13mov or lesser steel that's selling for $30-$50? All these companies sell knives made in China, 8cr13mov is a lesser steel than 440c and you can forget about carbon fiber scales.

The truth is, all these knife companies that sell made in China knives are RIPPING US OFF, the consumers in the U.S. while fattening their own purses!!!
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Answer this then, how do you know you are actually getting 440c steel in these knives? A company that openly rips off others designs would have no issue stamping 440c on some scrap metal they melted together.
 
Neomentat said:
The thing about Ganzo knives is, it can not be beat on the value proposition.

Also, it really makes you wonder, for $12-$15 retail through ebay, ali, or dhgate, you're getting REAL 440C steel, G10 or carbon fiber scales, full stainless liners and free shippping.

Now the question is, if Ganzo knives can retail this low with all the above mentioned materials and still make a profit, WHAT'S THE PROFIT MARGIN FROM BYRD, KERSHAW, BOKER, SPYDERCO that are made in China with 8cr13mov or lesser steel that's selling for $30-$50? All these companies sell knives made in China, 8cr13mov is a lesser steel than 440c and you can forget about carbon fiber scales.

The truth is, all these knife companies that sell made in China knives are RIPPING US OFF, the consumers in the U.S. while fattening their own purses!!!
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The fact that you can't understand the basic economics here is very telling. Not one person should listen to what you have to say. This forum is against counterfeits/clones/fakes/what have you. Get use to it. Not going to change. Fine if you want to post about them but expect vehement refusal of your inaccurate perspective. Companies that get their designs ripped off are actually the ones ripping us off? Please. Keep your fingers safe sir.....
 
I have come to the conclusion if spyderco and benchmade is ripping me off than I am in a happily ripped off state of mind! I don't own any knives I have bought that were clones at least not to my knowledge I do have a Walmart elchepo. But in my opinion a rip off is when you buy something that is suppose to be one thing and it's another. In other words it doesn't live up to its purchase price. My Walmart knife lives up to its price tag so it's not a ripoff my benchmade also lives up to its price tag. My pm2 well at first I was not a fan but a year later I would possibly my it my exclusive carry but I have to say both knives would be hard to give up. For 17 bucks a warranty and customer service would and cannot be really expected. But whatever floats your boat!

Now I wonder how many screwdrivers have been cloned and copied
What about drills
Table saws in the tool world this happens all the time. A knife is a tool. I love it when people buy fakes and clones and copies because eventually they will fail and they will buy something nicer or the real thing. In fact I have bought cheap knives like the rat 2 and esee zancudo I liked them but they only increased my hunger for the American made in America real deal. 1 year ago I would have never considered buying a sebenza for 400 dollars but after buying a few knives I can honestly say if I had 400 I would pull the trigger! Some people would say well that crazy and yeah I know it is but I wonder how many people bought a sanrumo only to suduce there hunger for the real thing. It happens often so in a way sanrumo help crk. I know I want a sebenza bad and as I soon as I can I'm gone get one! With that said I have no right to criticize people who buy clones and fakes and I sure hope they don't criticize me for buying better and nicer stuff. I sure do wish those Ganzo buyers would try a mini grip boy they don't know what they are missing

Fakes copies and clones keep Americans working, you know the post man and all that! Although I own none I can see a bright side to it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
well this turned ugly fast.......
 
Tbmfish said:
I have come to the conclusion if spyderco and benchmade is ripping me off than I am in a happily ripped off state of mind! I don't own any knives I have bought that were clones at least not to my knowledge I do have a Walmart elchepo. But in my opinion a rip off is when you buy something that is suppose to be one thing and it's another. In other words it doesn't live up to its purchase price. My Walmart knife lives up to its price tag so it's not a ripoff my benchmade also lives up to its price tag. My pm2 well at first I was not a fan but a year later I would possibly my it my exclusive carry but I have to say both knives would be hard to give up. For 17 bucks a warranty and customer service would and cannot be really expected. But whatever floats your boat!

Now I wonder how many screwdrivers have been cloned and copied
What about drills
Table saws in the tool world this happens all the time. A knife is a tool. I love it when people buy fakes and clones and copies because eventually they will fail and they will buy something nicer or the real thing. In fact I have bought cheap knives like the rat 2 and esee zancudo I liked them but they only increased my hunger for the American made in America real deal. 1 year ago I would have never considered buying a sebenza for 400 dollars but after buying a few knives I can honestly say if I had 400 I would pull the trigger! Some people would say well that crazy and yeah I know it is but I wonder how many people bought a sanrumo only to suduce there hunger for the real thing. It happens often so in a way sanrumo help crk. I know I want a sebenza bad and as I soon as I can I'm gone get one! With that said I have no right to criticize people who buy clones and fakes and I sure hope they don't criticize me for buying better and nicer stuff. I sure do wish those Ganzo buyers would try a mini grip boy they don't know what they are missing

Fakes copies and clones keep Americans working, you know the post man and all that! Although I own none I can see a bright side to it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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This doesn't even make sense.
 
In Europe they put clay tiles on the roof hat last 100 years and not cheap shingle roofing that last 20 years.

In Europe they buy expesive well made ladders that last a lifetime. In America they buy the flimsiest ladder that falls apart.

In Europe they buy wheel burrows that don't fall apart and not plastic ones at home depot with wheels that fall off and can't bear a load.


It is the american way to buy things at the cheapest price possible and worry about buying another in a few years. Tottaly different mindset when it comes to spending money on quality vs price.

Dollarphotoclub_7014335.jpg
 
colubrid said:
In Europe they put clay tiles on the roof hat last 100 years and not cheap shingle roofing that last 20 years.

In Europe they buy expesive well made ladders that last a lifetime. In America they buy the flimsiest ladder that falls apart.

In Europe they buy wheel burrows that don't fall apart and not plastic ones at home depot with wheels that fall off and can't bear a load.


It is the american way to buy things at the cheapest price possible and worry about buying another in a few years. Tottaly different mindset when it comes to spending money on quality vs price.
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So we are insulting America now. Just to be clear.
 
Neomentat said:
And how do you know Kershaw, Boker, Spyderco, have all these job positions you mentioned, pay these benefits you speculated, wow I think you should keep that trophy for yourself buddie.
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I could never hope to keep such a trophy that would take so many like yourself to help me earn!

Neomentat said:
Hackenslash, since you're so smart, please enlighten me just how many of each of these positions each company employ, what their salary is and how much their company contribute to their benefits and "RETIREMENT PLAN" which I highly doubt there is one for such low skilled labor positions you mentioned. Then you have to know their sales data for their knives and separate it by U.S. production and Chinese production. Well then you got to do a cost basis analysis on what ratio of their job/time is devoted to and services their U.S. production line and take that figure out of the equation. Only after that can you begin to start figuring out how much of these overhead you mentioned can be associated to their Chinese production knives.
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I've got a better idea. Why don't YOU prove that these fixed operating expenses for any American corporation DON'T exist for Kershaw, Boker (USA) and Spyderco? Better yet, why don't you trot on over to the Spyderco forum and tell Mr. Sal Glesser about your theory of American Knife Manufacturers "ripping" off their customer base? That should be a hoot.

Neomentat said:
I happen to have a BA degree in accounting and worked in audit for some years and understand fixed cost and overhead expenses alot better than you. I also understand the way manufacturing expenses works which is why so many companies are going over to China to get products made.
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If this it true, I weep for the youth of America...

Neomentat said:
The overhead and fixed cost you speculated about these companies most likely exist, and it will be much lower than you think not to mention a lot of it exist to support their U.S. production line.
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Ummmm..."Bingo". I'm glad you realize that these manufacturers have developed overseas manufacturing to support their Stateside operations. Are you ready to re-think your half-baked economic analysis?

Neomentat said:
I would bet you money that any of these companies' made in China knives average a higher profit margin than their average profit margin on U.S. made knives. And that my friend is why they're going there in the first place, to chase that higher profit and compete in the sub $50 range knives which accounts for the majority of this knife market pie.
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I tend to not gamble with those who don't understand statistics, nor fight with those who are un-armed. In your case I'm making an exception. I hope the US companies make awesome money from Chinese manufacturing. I would hope the profits of overseas manufacture are incredibly, sexy lucrative. Look at all the time and expense that Spyderco went to create the "8Cr13MoV" designation. You knew about that? Right? They need those extra funds to counter-act the folks who buy rip-offs and copies...like...um...you. Keep buying any knife you want, just don't think you're justified in what you do. There is NO justification in buying copies, clones and counterfeits.

I try to enter into these discussions with respect to all parties involved but you're spouting such nonsense I don't really care if I hurt your feelings. Read a little about the Knife Industry before you puke BS all over us, OK?
 
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