Cheapest and simplest Blade for Survival?

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May 10, 2002
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Getting down to just surviving I have seen $5 knives in the supermarket kitchen section that I would be happy to have in a survival situation. Do you think you could make such a cheap knife to work for you?

This thread starts from a post I made referring to a cheap survival kit.
 
A full-tang, high carbon kitchen knife would do the trick.

People survived quite well with flint knives. I think any decent piece of steel would be a great advantage.
 
Any name brand 15.00 machete. Ontario, Tramontina, Collins, ...

As far as the kitchen knives go, a large Old Hickory butcher knife would do as well as the old Green river knives the mountain men carried. They were just large butcher knives.
 
i just can not bring myself to say that i would be willing to risk my life on a $5 blade..... now the ontario rat7 or something i would be ok with but even then i have broken one alraedy..... snapped it in half.....
 
A full-sized Cold Steel Bushman would be great. Takes a wicked edge, easy to sharpen and the formed handle would be hard to break.

Until I got one I thought about putting stuff into the "hollow" handle. but the handle is more like a tube (think how a shovel head is formed and that's how the bushman handle is formed.

The only think this handle needs is more grip, nothing a few dips in Plasticote or Gorilla Tape couldn't fix.

As for staking my life on a cheap knife, I'd rather not . . . but carrying a few cheap knives might work for me ;)
 
One thing to think about is in a survival situation a knife is the most important tool…. A five dollar knife is just not going to be reliable in a survival situation, and it will not stay sharp…… and a dull broken knife equals death.
 
if you are just looking to save money, flea markets are a good place to find old knives dedicated to outdoor use.
The $5.00 kitchen knife will work and you can easily sharpen it on a rock. It just won't be as versitile or last as long. Which means that the person needing the knife might have a little more trouble lasting long. There are many knives that are inexpensive that are better than cheap kitchen knives though.
Look for your point of diminishing returns, cost is obviously important. It is to me as well.
 
I'd be Ok with my 14 inch Tramontina and a Mora.

vayy0741mo.jpg


This pair, with sheath cost me about $25. Not expensive but they put you a few thousand years ahead of the stone age. Mac
 
I don't think that cost is a relavent factor in how well a knife will work for you in a survival situation. However, your skill level with edged tools will certainly be a deciding factor. If you pick up a cheap, thin bladed chinese kitchen knife, it's up to the user to know the limitations of that blade, compared to other knives that they are more accustomed to using. If you know that, then you can adjust the way the knife is used and how you do some of the more demanding chores and the knife should perform just fine for you.
 
Ok I bought one of those $5 knives and its a 19cm carving knife (12 inch knife with 7 1/2 inch blade). Its about 3 mm thick (1/8 inch) and the tang is shaped into the handle with 3 rivets. The taper is flat and the blade is hard ie. it doesnt seem to want to bend although I think it will if I try.
I'm thinking this knife will cut it ;)
What tests am i going to put this blade through to be fair?
Chipping ice?
Chopping hardwood?
Hitting the spine with a rock while trying to split a bit of wood?
Dropping point down onto rock from 10 foot?
 
valleytinworks said:
A five dollar knife is just not going to be reliable in a survival situation, and it will not stay sharp…… and a dull broken knife equals death.

This is true to some extent but it depends on the knife, some of the really cheap folders will fall apart when you use them, just cutting, so you are soon left with a small blade with no handle. The steel in some are also so coarse it is like sharpening nodular iron. Simiar with fixed blades, some have really bad tang/handle structure and also really low quality steel.

Yes even the worse steel blade available today is better than caveman tools, but is that really where you want to benchmark gear. I asked one of my relatives recently about clothing in labrador as it gets colder there than it does here and I was curious how much high end brand name gear was worn by both the natives and everyone else :

"Natives are more brand aware than most whites.
Few old elders wear skin boots but not many.
Skin (fur) based clothing is for the fashion followers/trendsetters
Ever lift a bison or muskox skin jacket? even when dry."

However just because a knife is inexpensive it doesn't mean it has to be of low quality. If you poke around at flea markets you can find carbon steel blades, often forged which will work better for wood working than a lot of tactical stainless knives. In general the really cheap carbon blades are a lot better than the really cheap stainless ones.

Look for carbon steel butcher knives and similar patterns, if you can find them highly rusted you can get them for next to nothing and it is just a cosmetic issue most of the time.

-Cliff
 
pict said:
Not expensive but they put you a few thousand years ahead of the stone age. Mac
LOL! Great line, I'm going to have to remember that one!
 
Do you think you could make such a cheap knife to work for you?
Heck yeah!!! My brain is likely duller than the edge will get. ;)

As noted, garage/yard sales can net you some good quality (albeit sometimes well used ;) ) kitchen knives. It is up to the user to then use tool within its limitations, as with any tool.

Some common, relatively cheap commercial knives are Victorinx Forschner Fibrox series, F Dick knives, Dexter Russell, and other brands vendored to the food processing industry. These cheap, relatively soft (easily resharpened), stainless steel knives are the brands usually found in the hands of the most intensive knife-using people on planet earth -- shift workers who constantly use a knife 8-10 hours each day for five or six days a week in beef/pork/poultry/fish processing plants. A straight stiff boning knife is very close to a mora blade in functionality and a 12" long slicer approximates a short machete nicely.

There are lots of ways of equipping yourself cheaply. You can find me rummaging around thrift stores, garage/yard sales, discount outlets, inventory overstock disposal shops, etc on the lookout for servicable items that can be mustered out as kit items. And I don't often come away empty-handed. ;) :D (gloat mode on) I recently found a box of 12 six-inch boniing knives for 69 cents each at a inventory overage store. (gloat mode off) I picked them up for knife handle mod practice and destructo testing when summer arrives.
 
A $6 18” Tramontina machete and a $7 surplus German army knife would be a hard combination to beat for versatility on the cheap.


A $9 Frosts Mora Clipper would be nice too….


…but you can make do with what you have available…maybe a piece of broken glass or a P38 sharpened on a rock. Better to be prepared and carry a real knife.




- Frank
 
dartanyon said:
Ok I bought one of those $5 knives and its a 19cm carving knife (12 inch knife with 7 1/2 inch blade). Its about 3 mm thick (1/8 inch) and the tang is shaped into the handle with 3 rivets. The taper is flat and the blade is hard ie. it doesnt seem to want to bend although I think it will if I try.
I'm thinking this knife will cut it ;)
What tests am i going to put this blade through to be fair?
Chipping ice?
Chopping hardwood?
Hitting the spine with a rock while trying to split a bit of wood?
Dropping point down onto rock from 10 foot?
How about cutting stuff?
Point a stick, make some feather sticks.
Cut a rope.
Prepare dinner.
Cut some cloth to make a bandage/sling.

Use it like a knife :D
If you can sharpen a pencil and thin slice a tomato, you're on you way.
 
Oh, yes, I can.
I bought my first relatively good quality knife for about $5. It is still with me. I travelled with this knife to a few countries and for almost 1 year it was my only knife.
However, it is still better quality knife than the one I had when I worked on lake Issyk-Kul (Kyrgyzstan) as a student just a bit more than 10 years ago. Then, only I from a group of 4 students did not forget to bring a knife. So, it was the only knife in the group for 2 months. We did a lot of things with the knife - cooked food, cut tree branches for fire, chopped bones, used to cut cables, household activities, wood carving. The knife was made from a broken metal saw(very fragile, but held the edge very well), the handle was made of epoxy resin. So, it was far from perfect, but when you know the limits of the knife you do not give it the jobs it cannot handle. And, because we did not have another knife, everybody looked after the knife pretty well.
If someone travels to Central Asia you will see that most shepherds' knives there are very cheap, definitely less than $5 US. In fact, I do not think a shepherd would pay more than $5 for a knife, even though they live half of the year in mountains in quite isolated conditions. And they are not collectors, this is very important tool. Most of their knives are kitchen knives.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
"Natives are more brand aware than most whites.
Few old elders wear skin boots but not many.
Skin (fur) based clothing is for the fashion followers/trendsetters
Ever lift a bison or muskox skin jacket? even when dry."

Over to my place in Quebec, the kids (Mi'gmak) make traditional beads/pearls work. One of their favourite design for embroideries and beads work is the Nike logo :rolleyes:

Indians and natives all over the worls are not immune to marketing and such idiocies. They, too, can come to favor a brand before a function. And this sucks, native or not.

There's this guy named Gilles Elkaim who traveled in the arctic from Norway to the Bering detroit without any motorized method. He spent 4 years doing it, living off the land for a good part of the trip, and facing blizzards and -80°C with the wind chill regularly in the long winter night up there above 70°N. On his way, he traded his high tech jacket for a traditional Nenets malitsa (a thick skin coat worn with the hair inside), and his Sorel boots for skin boots. The gear did the job better for him. He wrote that the malitsa was his "survival coat".

Sure it was heavier and bulky, but it worked.

Does it really matter if you have to sharpen a knife every 5 minutes ? A soft stainless steel knife with a full tang might be dull in no time, but you won't break it, and if the edge rolls, who cares. Just hit on it with a stone and you'll realign it. IMO, a soft steel is more reliable than those overhardened high end alloys. Certainly not more usable... but reliable as hell.

A tramontina machete is the perfect example of that. It's a cheap piece of very soft steel, but it works. I had mine for decades and it's seen hell, and it's still going strong. So why bother ?

Don't get lost in the marketing fuss.

Just my two cents.

David
 
Moine said:
...not immune to marketing and such idiocies.

Yes, the point there though that it was the reverse, now a lot of people think it is "cool" to be native in that respect while the natives themselves have moved on because they are thinking of function only, dog teams vs snowmobiles for example.

Does it really matter if you have to sharpen a knife every 5 minutes ?

Well yes, you would not be getting much work done. If I plan on spending a day in the woods I will sharpen my axe and long blade at lunchtime, not every time I cut down a tree or limb it out otherwise I would spend more time sharpening than actually cutting. In reality I have really high end axes and blades and don't sharpen them at all for several days, and even then they are just at the point where they will start to lose the ability to slice paper and do other fine work.

Similar for most tradespeople, you just don't have time to sharpen that frequently, cutting insulation for example I never saw anyone stop to sharpen. It gets well over 40 C in an attic in the summer when you are insulating it, and in a crawlspace you don't even have any room to sharpen anything and you are certainly not going to be crawling in and out every five minutes to sharpen a knife because you would not get anything done. The solution there is to carry essentially many knives and replace them.

IMO, a soft steel is more reliable than those overhardened high end alloys.

Many of the larger blades are made out of something like ATS-34 and compared to that the softer stainless can often come off better for most work, I'd take something like the Mora 2000 as well vs those types of steels for the same reasons you noted. But if you compare them to actual steels designed for that type of work (high toughness tool steels) the low HRC stainless are softer, weaker, and more brittle and harder to grind all at the same time.

A tramontina machete is the perfect example of that. It's a cheap piece of very soft steel, but it works. I had mine for decades and it's seen hell, and it's still going strong. So why bother ?

With better materials - because you can build a better blade. A tramontina bolo is one of my favorite rough wood working blades, but a much harder tool steel blade would be able to hold a much thinner edge profile and thus cut better for longer and be easier to sharpen. It isn't just about edge retention. You however are not going to get that for $5 of course. You can also get much more efficient designs, instead of a flat stamped blade get something with a full primary grind with proper tang taper and you get a stronger blade with better cutting ability and less vibration. But again you are not getting that for $5 either.

In terms of performance/price it is hard to beat a tramontina/martindale/barteaux machete + mora or wetterling + opinel. You can get better performance, often significantly more so, but the price skyrockets. Ray Kirk would make you one hell of a wood working large blade, but for the cost of it you would buy many tramontinas and moras.

-Cliff
 
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