Cheapskate Heroes

Chronovore said:
I feel like the lesser steels shouldn't even be on the hobbyist's table in 2024. For instance, 7Cr17Mov (analog of 440A) can get close to 8Cr13Mov in edge retention depending on heat treatment but is really only a viable choice if you only have like $20 and need something with more corrosion resistance. 5Cr15Mov (analog of 1.4116, etc.) is pretty much garbage and the companies still using it should be ashamed of themselves. 3Cr13Mov, a steel that is sometimes used to make liners and the bodies of steel frame-locks, is still used to make blades in the bottom-barrel Kershaw offerings, random gas station knives, and the sub-$10 Ozark Trail line from Walmart. There is just no reason to choose stuff like this when you can get knives in 8Cr13Mov for like $15 and upgrades to better stuff are only as far away as the cost of lunch at McDonald's.
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You can say that again.

Here and there I can spot some sort of allergy reactions when XXCrXXMov steel is mentioned. I wonder why because if we are honest those 'cheap' chinese steels are just copies of japan, US and german steels. So; who to blame? The one who made a copy of crap steel and didn't improve it, the one who invented this crap steel or the one who in the first place decided to use this crap steel for blades?
As I can see some manufacturers are charging 'premium' prices for their 'cheap steel' knives and people gladly buy those knives. Makes you wonder.

Otherwise; I would say each steel has it's place from cheap construction steels to all those fancy powder steels. I would gladly use for example 420, 420J2, 420HC, Victorinox, 3cr13, 5cr15 and similar steel to reinforce my concrete wall. I would not call those steels crappy. Till recently I would call crap the one who is using those steels to make blades. But....as we live we also learn so hanging on this forum I learned some things. I could say it was eye opening. I think there is a chance I'll start to see advantages in those 'crappy' steels. Lets say I'm ''out in a field'' walking toward my nearest pub. If I carry a knife made of one of those steels I can literally stop anywhere and sharpen my knife on almost anything from a brick, piece of ceramic tile, a stone, a coffee mug to pavement curb and flower pots and planters. Ain't that just amazing? ;)
 
I hope y'all accept my el cheapo contribution. I know about .001 percent of what y'all know when it comes to knives, and really don't have a whole bunch of stuff that I can add to this website...but I sure do like reading and looking around and everything here :thumbsup:

I bought these rusty, used, and needing some work. I cleaned 'em up, touched up a few edges...that old fish knife is razor sharp :) The whole lot I stumbled on for $12. Yeah, I'm cheap.
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TheOne45 said:
You can say that again.

Here and there I can spot some sort of allergy reactions when XXCrXXMov steel is mentioned. I wonder why because if we are honest those 'cheap' chinese steels are just copies of japan, US and german steels. So; who to blame? The one who made a copy of crap steel and didn't improve it, the one who invented this crap steel or the one who in the first place decided to use this crap steel for blades?
As I can see some manufacturers are charging 'premium' prices for their 'cheap steel' knives and people gladly buy those knives. Makes you wonder.

Otherwise; I would say each steel has it's place from cheap construction steels to all those fancy powder steels. I would gladly use for example 420, 420J2, 420HC, Victorinox, 3cr13, 5cr15 and similar steel to reinforce my concrete wall. I would not call those steels crappy. Till recently I would call crap the one who is using those steels to make blades. But....as we live we also learn so hanging on this forum I learned some things. I could say it was eye opening. I think there is a chance I'll start to see advantages in those 'crappy' steels. Lets say I'm ''out in a field'' walking toward my nearest pub. If I carry a knife made of one of those steels I can literally stop anywhere and sharpen my knife on almost anything from a brick, piece of ceramic tile, a stone, a coffee mug to pavement curb and flower pots and planters. Ain't that just amazing? ;)
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The more generalized hate from hobbyists sometimes stems from anti-China sentiment and sometimes from bad experiences with the lower-numbered range of steels there. In that series, I find that good or at least adequate performance can be achieved with 9Cr18Mov and 10Cr15CoMov. I carry those steels on a regular basis and with a decent heat treatment, they are in the same performance ballpark as Spyderco's VG-10. (The Civivi and Sencut knives from WE are a great example.)

The other thing you mentioned is the supposed reason Opinel had Sandvik provide a lower-carbon version of 12C27 (12C27Mod) for their stainless models. It's very easy to sharpen and their edge geometry helps to take up some of the slack. While there may be benefit in that to the "everyman", that's why I differentiated "hobbyists" here. Of course, the everyman of today is very different than the everyman of yesteryear. Forget sharpening a knife on a rock or the bottom of a coffeee mug. Today's everyman doesn't even carry a knife. :(

Meanwhile, the hobbyists of today will recognize regular 12C27 as one of the easiest and friendliest steels to sharpen. While I'd usually rather have one of the other friendly high-toughness stainless steels like AEB-L, Nitro-V, or preferably 14C28N; I've spent a fair amount of time with 12C27 in my pocket. With a decent heat treatment, I'd take it over 8Cr13Mov.
 
According to Larrin Larrin , 440a should have better edge retention and corrosion resistance vs. Aus8/Cr13MoV. So, maybe 440A got its poor reputation due to less than ideal heat treatments? 1095 is still well loved and only a little tougher than 440a and much worse edge retention and corrosion resistance.

The more I learn about knife steels, the more I realize that people far over and under estimate steels based purely on their preference for one over the other.
 
SharpBits said:
According to Larrin Larrin , 440a should have better edge retention and corrosion resistance vs. Aus8/Cr13MoV. So, maybe 440A got its poor reputation due to less than ideal heat treatments? 1095 is still well loved and only a little tougher than 440a and much worse edge retention and corrosion resistance.

The more I learn about knife steels, the more I realize that people far over and under estimate steels based purely on their preference for one over the other.
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I'm not sure how deeply I want to wade into this conversation. However, I had, and generally still do, have a low opinion of 440A with one notable exception: the 440A used by Camillus/Schrade in the old U.S. made Uncle Henry knives holds up great. It sharpens up easily and holds an edge at least as well if not better than the 1095 they used and doesn't rust much.

I no longer avoid the steel from reputable makers, but that's the hard part: what existing manufacturers can be trusted to treat it properly?
 
oldmanwilly said:
I'm not sure how deeply I want to wade into this conversation.
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As less as possible, I suppose.
I'm tooling constructor for 30 years so I need to choose a proper material from plain non-magnetic Inox, construction steel, brass, bronze, D2 to Uddeholm and Bohler powder steels and carbide hardness up to abnormaly expensive Ferro-Titanit.
But wirh my knives I try to be simple so at hhe moment I settled on 12c27, 14c28n and D2. Works for me.
 
Chronovore said:
Of course, the everyman of today is very different than the everyman of yesteryear. Forget sharpening a knife on a rock or the bottom of a coffeee mug. Today's everyman doesn't even carry a knife. :(
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Correct, we knife knuts are way out at the tail end of the bell curve (in the US, anyway).

To be fair though, the everyman environment is much less “knife necessary” than in the past. More processed food in resealable bags, more cheap stamped scissors, more time spent peering into a screen than ever before.

Couple weeks ago, I saw an acquaintance open an envelope with his car key. Very nonchalant, standing beside his mailbox, whips out his keys and saws open the mail in one fluid motion - obviously he does this all the time. I later asked about it, and he said, “Somewhere on my desk, I have a letter opener that was a gift from my dad, but I haven’t used it in years. Easier to do this.”

He doesn’t carry a knife because he doesn’t need one. I had considered giving this guy a pocketknife before, but I’m convinced if I did, it’d end up beside his dad’s letter opener.

Parker
 
catspa said:
Correct, we knife knuts are way out at the tail end of the bell curve (in the US, anyway).

To be fair though, the everyman environment is much less “knife necessary” than in the past. More processed food in resealable bags, more cheap stamped scissors, more time spent peering into a screen than ever before.

Couple weeks ago, I saw an acquaintance open an envelope with his car key. Very nonchalant, standing beside his mailbox, whips out his keys and saws open the mail in one fluid motion - obviously he does this all the time. I later asked about it, and he said, “Somewhere on my desk, I have a letter opener that was a gift from my dad, but I haven’t used it in years. Easier to do this.”

He doesn’t carry a knife because he doesn’t need one. I had considered giving this guy a pocketknife before, but I’m convinced if I did, it’d end up beside his dad’s letter opener.

Parker
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True, and he doesn't have to maintain the edge on his key.
 
catspa said:
Correct, we knife knuts are way out at the tail end of the bell curve (in the US, anyway).

To be fair though, the everyman environment is much less “knife necessary” than in the past. More processed food in resealable bags, more cheap stamped scissors, more time spent peering into a screen than ever before.

Couple weeks ago, I saw an acquaintance open an envelope with his car key. Very nonchalant, standing beside his mailbox, whips out his keys and saws open the mail in one fluid motion - obviously he does this all the time. I later asked about it, and he said, “Somewhere on my desk, I have a letter opener that was a gift from my dad, but I haven’t used it in years. Easier to do this.”

He doesn’t carry a knife because he doesn’t need one. I had considered giving this guy a pocketknife before, but I’m convinced if I did, it’d end up beside his dad’s letter opener.

Parker
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I see it all the time. Even people I know who used to always carry a knife 20+ years ago don't. It's a shame, especially when they ask to use mine. 😜
 
This one from Honey Badger sharpens up nicely and is pretty ergonomic. Ball bearing pivot and chamfered thumb hole makes it a fun little flipper.

There’s plenty to dislike like the cheap, noisy plastic handles and goofy jimped finger choil but not enough to outweigh the likes.

QORuuVo.jpeg
 
oldmanwilly said:
Absolutely excellent cheapskate knife. I bought one on sale for ~$22.00 a few years ago and, after receiving it, immediately ordered 2 more while the sale was still going. The sheaths aren't great, but custom kydex ones are available.
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I also bought multiples after receiving the first, only confirming I'm a Grade A Cheapskate!
 
qmether said:
I also bought multiples after receiving the first, only confirming I'm a Grade A Cheapskate!
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I spent more for an aftermarket sheath than the knife and still find it a fantastic buy. Great design for a really capable (and very lightweight) knife.
 
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