Benchmade China Knockoff Benchmade Bugout and Spyderco Paramilitary 2

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sabre cat said:
Not twisting your words at all.
Just asking questions for clarification.

Also, just for clarification, if the knife has a different locking system, it will not be an “EXACT REPLICA.” Nor will it be an exact replica with different markings and packaging.

But, let’s take this a step farther shall we? An exact replica should have interchangeable parts with the original. I, as of yet, have never seen a case where fake parts would fit on an original.
PM2, Rat 1, or LionSteel SR1, the clone was always different and the parts would not interchange.

So, please don’t insult my intelligence by claiming the copies are an “EXACT REPLICA” when we both know that is normally not the case. Probably never unless the clones are made in the same factory as the original.

I think I understand your point of view though. Unless I am mistaken, you consider counterfeit knives, clones, and copies exactly the same. They are all counterfeit. The manufacturers are all crooks and their only goal is to rip off the public.

You and I probably only completely agree on one thing here. Clones hurt the knife industry.
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I feel like there are people on this forum who have a non-standard definition for what “exact” means.

UmnumMAN said:
I seen some "clone" sebenzas on ebay lol..

With a very weird name: "land"

I think they're like 20 bucks. Absolutely.
blasphemous if you ask me. I'd like to personally sit down with everyone considering to buy such junk, and give them a hands on lesson on why it isn't worth it
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Land is a brand produced by SanRenMu. The 710 and its variants, know colloquially as the “Sanbenza,” is a decent budget knife. It’s clearly based on the Sebena, but is smaller (blade is about 1/4” shorter than a small Sebenza), has a different blade shape and grind, runs on Teflon washers rather than a bushing pivot, and is made from steel rather than titanium. They also make a liner lock version with G10 scales. Blade steel has gone from 8Cr13 to 8Cr14 to 12c27. It’s blatantly modeled on the Sebenza, but doesn’t pretend to be a Sebenza, or even attempt to be a 1:1 copy. It’s no competition for a CRK, but it’s definitely worth $10.

In-depth review from an actual knife reviewer: https://bladereviews.com/sanrenmu-710-review/
 
Nothing compares to the original version. No matter how you look at it, the original is always the best.
How many times has someone said when listening to a song that the remake is better or just as good as the original version?
 
Ajack60 said:
Nothing compares to the original version. No matter how you look at it, the original is always the best.
How many times has someone said when listening to a song that the remake is better or just as good as the original version?
Click to expand...

It actually happens a lot in music. There are plenty of songs where the "cover" became the definitive version.
  • Johnny Cash, “Hurt” (Nine Inch Nails) [one of the best examples, even though the original is pretty famous, based on what Trent Reznor said about Cash's version: "I pop the video in, and wow... Tears welling, silence, goose-bumps... Wow. [I felt like] I just lost my girlfriend, because that song isn't mine anymore... It really made me think about how powerful music is as a medium and art form. I wrote some words and music in my bedroom as a way of staying sane, about a bleak and desperate place I was in, totally isolated and alone. [Somehow] that winds up reinterpreted by a music legend from a radically different era/genre and still retains sincerity and meaning – different, but every bit as pure."
  • Elvis Presley, “Hound Dog” (Willie Mae “Big Mama” Thornton)
  • Whitney Houston, “I Will Always Love You” (Dolly Parton)
  • Aretha Franklin, “Respect” (Otis Redding)
  • Ray Charles, “Georgia On My Mind” (Hoagy Carmichael)
  • Manfred Mann’s Earth Band, “Blinded by the Light” (Bruce Springsteen)
  • Eric Clapton, “Cocaine” (JJ Cale)
  • Frank Sinatra, “I’ve Got You Under My Skin” (Virginia Bruce)
  • Jeff Buckley, “Hallelujah” (Leonard Cohen)
  • Sinead O’Connor, “Nothing Compares 2 U” (Prince)
  • Janis Joplin, “Me and Bobby McGee” (Roger Miller)
  • Soft Cell, “Tainted Love” (Gloria Jones)
  • Jimi Hendrix, “All Along the Watchtower” (Bob Dylan)
  • Nirvana, “The Man Who Sold The World” (David Bowie)
  • Red Hot Chili Peppers, “Higher Ground” (Stevie Wonder)
  • The Fugees, “Killing Me Softly” (Lori Lieberman)
  • Led Zeppelin, “Dazed and Confused” (Jake Holmes)
  • Joan Jett, “I Love Rock ‘n’ Roll” (Arrows)
  • Cyndi Lauper, “Girls Just Want To Have Fun” (Robert Hazard)
  • Guns N’ Roses, “Live And Let Die” (Wings)
Anyway, to get back to the subject, cover songs are a decent analog for knives that start with an existing design and make it into something new. The Axis-lock RAT2 I posted earlier takes features that are either not legally protectable (the design of the RAT2) or not protected (the expired lock mechanism patent) and mashes them together to create a novel addition to the marketplace. When it's done in a completely legal fashion, the argument against becomes a vague moral objection to "copying," which I find odd given the way the knife industry has been quick copy things like Michael Walker's LinerLock and Chris Reeve's Integral Lock.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
It actually happens a lot in music. There are plenty of songs where the "cover" became the definitive version.
  • Johnny Cash, “Hurt” (Nine Inch Nails) [one of the best examples, even though the original is pretty famous, based on what Trent Reznor said about Cash's version: "I pop the video in, and wow... Tears welling, silence, goose-bumps... Wow. [I felt like] I just lost my girlfriend, because that song isn't mine anymore... It really made me think about how powerful music is as a medium and art form. I wrote some words and music in my bedroom as a way of staying sane, about a bleak and desperate place I was in, totally isolated and alone. [Somehow] that winds up reinterpreted by a music legend from a radically different era/genre and still retains sincerity and meaning – different, but every bit as pure."
  • Elvis Presley, “Hound Dog” (Willie Mae “Big Mama” Thornton)
  • Whitney Houston, “I Will Always Love You” (Dolly Parton)
  • Aretha Franklin, “Respect” (Otis Redding)
  • Ray Charles, “Georgia On My Mind” (Hoagy Carmichael)
  • Manfred Mann’s Earth Band, “Blinded by the Light” (Bruce Springsteen)
  • Eric Clapton, “Cocaine” (JJ Cale)
  • Frank Sinatra, “I’ve Got You Under My Skin” (Virginia Bruce)
  • Jeff Buckley, “Hallelujah” (Leonard Cohen)
  • Sinead O’Connor, “Nothing Compares 2 U” (Prince)
  • Janis Joplin, “Me and Bobby McGee” (Roger Miller)
  • Soft Cell, “Tainted Love” (Gloria Jones)
  • Jimi Hendrix, “All Along the Watchtower” (Bob Dylan)
  • Nirvana, “The Man Who Sold The World” (David Bowie)
  • Red Hot Chili Peppers, “Higher Ground” (Stevie Wonder)
  • The Fugees, “Killing Me Softly” (Lori Lieberman)
  • Led Zeppelin, “Dazed and Confused” (Jake Holmes)
  • Joan Jett, “I Love Rock ‘n’ Roll” (Arrows)
  • Cyndi Lauper, “Girls Just Want To Have Fun” (Robert Hazard)
  • Guns N’ Roses, “Live And Let Die” (Wings)
Anyway, to get back to the subject, cover songs are a decent analog for knives that start with an existing design and make it into something new. The Axis-lock RAT2 I posted earlier takes features that are either not legally protectable (the design of the RAT2) or not protected (the expired lock mechanism patent) and mashes them together to create a novel addition to the marketplace. When it's done in a completely legal fashion, the argument against becomes a vague moral objection to "copying," which I find odd given the way the knife industry has been quick copy things like Michael Walker's LinerLock and Chris Reeve's Integral Lock.
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I'm totally derailed by you saying anything Sinead O'Connor is better than Prince...
 
Using music covers to equate to homage knives is disingenuous. Music is art. Art CAN be a huge part of a knife, but is not the only part. You also need materials, craftsmanship, etc. Cover songs are made WITH permission of the original artist or after the music is public domain. Even sampling is done with permission.

A better comparision of music to a homage knife would be for me to make a mash-up of great AC/DC songs and call it "Night Bell Highway For Those Dirty Deeds" and claim it's my original piece of music. When looked at that way, it becomes fairly absurd to consider homage knives to be acceptable. True, they don't have legal protection but that's when it's up to us Knife Knuts to call them out, shun them and steer folks to better choices. To think homage knives still don't hurt the industry is ridiculous.

By the way, ASCAP shut down my "original" music and was able to sue me :p.
 
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+1 against buying knockoffs, fakes, copies etc.
Dishonesty is the main element in their alloys in more ways than one.
You also won't be as satisfied with fakes as you would the real thing.
If it's a sharpened piece of metal I'm sure it'll cut something at least once :rolleyes: but you really should just buy the real thing whatever knife it is.

If you don't believe me I triple dog dare you to buy the real one instead of the fake one and see for yourself :p
Buy the authentic USA made PM2 instead of the fake or you're not a man!!o_Oo_O
Kidding somewhat.... but seriously buying a Chinese copy/ fake is like buying stolen goods from criminals :eek:
That's essentially what you're doing if you support the clone industry. The Sith use clones, Jedi do what's right and don't need clones:rolleyes:
The Jedi trusted clones and it got them killed!! Don't risk the use of clones!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I'll stop :oops:
No fakes please though!!!!:mad: ;)
 
Ajack60 said:
Nothing compares to the original version. No matter how you look at it, the original is always the best.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Your statement assumes there is no room for improvement on the original design. In other words, the original is always perfect.

If you had stated “normally” instead of “always” I would have to agree. But you did not.

As an example, Spyderco offered a wonderful knife with their
D’Allara 3. Fantastic knife. I own one. Unfortunately it is discontinued.

However, there is a copy sold overseas that appears to be the same basic design with a change to the lock and pocket clip. The only two areas that people felt Spyderco fell short on.

It should be noted that the manufacturer is still using Spyderco designs for the modified lock and clip. Both changes fall in line with correcting the two areas many people feel Spyderco dropped the ball. Especially the lock mechanism.

I look at the copy and can’t help but feel it is a better design.

All of this brings up a side question. Is the clone maker still stealing from Sal even though the
D’Allara 3 is discontinued?
 
sabre cat said:
I disagree. Your statement assumes there is no room for improvement on the original design. In other words, the original is always perfect.

If you had stated “normally” instead of “always” I would have to agree. But you did not.

As an example, Spyderco offered a wonderful knife with their
D’Allara 3. Fantastic knife. I own one. Unfortunately it is discontinued.

However, there is a copy sold overseas that appears to be the same basic design with a change to the lock and pocket clip. The only two areas that people felt Spyderco fell short on.

It should be noted that the manufacturer is still using Spyderco designs for the modified lock and clip. Both changes fall in line with correcting the two areas many people feel Spyderco dropped the ball. Especially the lock mechanism.

I look at the copy and can’t help but feel it is a better design.

All of this brings up a side question. Is the clone maker still stealing from Sal even though the
D’Allara 3 is discontinued?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I should have stated original maker instead of version because over time, the same model is improved upon, but it's still the original design. For example, the Delica. It's been improved over the years to make it even better.
To answer your question, yes, the clone maker is still stealing from Spyderco even though the model is discontinued. Why, it's still Spyderco's design, and if the cloner is still using Spyderco's design, well, enough said. I guess it's easier to steal someone else's design than to produce a model of their own.
 
Buying one of those cheap knock offs makes about as much damn sense as buying a fake parachute.
 
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