China & Tariffs

It was expected.

Will it also affect the Tiachung made knives?
 
I’d like to see it do exactly what the tarrifs were intended to do, shift production to the USA. What would production cost be here vs there plus 25% for an equal product ?

As others have said I really don’t buy from the China line, although I just bought a Tenacious for a Christmas gift.

I don’t know what the profit margins are in different facilities and in the end you must run the company in the black.
 
We don't know yet what countries will be affected and how much. We're already paying more for imported steel like lC200. I'm trying to get a feel for the thoughts of those in the knife industry.

Kreyzhorse,

Raw steel costs could be 25% of the cost of a knife when dealing with expensive steels.

sal
 
danthaman1980 said:
Pass the costs of the Chinese tariffs on to the buyers of the Chinese knives. Don't let any of those costs be absorbed by USA/Japan/Italy/Taiwan made knives.
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That is my thought too, and I think it makes business sense (not that I have any) - but no reason to harm sales that would not otherwise be affected, and might pick up additional sales when for reasons out of Spyderco's control, the chinese made models go up in price. Like many here, I love the Taichung and USA made models for their material and build quality and design. That gets me all the knives I would buy anyway, so this seems mostly like it will affect those who would not otherwise go higher in price for a purchase.
This is not the place to debate economic tactics, but in a global and highly connected world, there are going to be plenty of unintended and undesired side-effects, so I hope damage can be contained, even if some lines become less viable.:(
 
My interest in Spyderco is primarily focused on US-made knives. I'd generally be happy to pay more for them, and would have no problem at all with Spyderco moving these products up-market.

If you're talking about paying $38 instead of $30 for a Double Stuff, NBD.
 
I see the reality of your position, and there is no alternative to raising prices to offset the increased costs (well, there is an alternative, but we don't want to see you go out of business). Any of your competition that does not do similar price increases will only impact their own stability.

Don't spread the tariff cost of the Chinese-made knives to other lines, that would defeat the entire purpose of the tariffs. The cost increases for materials should be passed on in all lines that are affected.
 
lambertiana said:
Don't spread the tariff cost of the Chinese-made knives to other lines, that would defeat the entire purpose of the tariffs. The cost increases for materials should be passed on in all lines that are affected.
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From what I understand one of the reason why knife makers use China is to make profits by selling more product at lower costs to more people. It allows companies to do other things elsewhere ie the USA made knives.

How will this affect that? Since those budget minded people are looking for low low prices. 25% may not be that much but if less income from less being sold, could affect indirectly the rest of the lineup.
 
Mo2 said:
From what I understand one of the reason why knife makers use China is to make profits by selling more product at lower costs to more people. It allows companies to do other things elsewhere ie the USA made knives.

How will this affect that? Since those budget minded people are looking for low low prices. 25% may not be that much but if less income from less being sold, could affect indirectly the rest of the lineup.
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The competition is going to have to raise prices as well, or suffer quality wise which I imagine Spyderco is not willing to do.
Some of the cheaper knives already increased in price more than it was just a few years ago, not a lot, but about what were talking about here. People are still buying them. If you weren't a "knife person" you probably wouldn't even notice the increase. If the competition (price/materials wise) keeps its quality then they will have to go up too, or they aren't really competition materials and quality wise.
 
Canadian here.

Honestly, for Chinese made Spyderco knives such as the Tenacious (which I own), a jump from $90 to $112 CAD is asking a bit much, given the materials. And although you've already said only Chinese knives will be affected, thinking about an Endura (also have one, love it still) going from around $100 to $125 CAD isn't great either, but at least the buyer still gets VG-10.

That said, the FRN handled Byrd knives going from $40 to $50 CAD doesn't seem to hurt as much from that perspective. Perhaps increasing the lower priced Chinese made knives price by a larger margin, ~30%, and the higher priced Chinese made knives by ~20% (just for example), you might find a more comfortable middle-ground.

I've been a fan of Spyderco since I started collecting and using knives. I hope you find a solution you find comfortable, given the situation. Seeing a value-line produced in the States would be incredible, even if it's only a pipe dream.
 
I hope to see the tariffs do as they are intended and I agree they are a long time overdue. China has had an unfair advantage for way too long.
Now as far as pricing on Chinese knives because of these tariffs, it does not really affect me. The only Spyderco knives I have are US made or older German made knives I have.
I will only buy American made production knives no matter the cost. I am mostly buying higher end knives though so they come from everywhere, USA, Russia, South Africa, etc.

So a 25% increase in a $1000 knife would suck but it’s a hobby and not a need for the most part.
 
The_Iron_Joe said:
Canadian here.

Honestly, for Chinese made Spyderco knives such as the Tenacious (which I own), a jump from $90 to $112 CAD is asking a bit much, given the materials. And although you've already said only Chinese knives will be affected, thinking about an Endura (also have one, love it still) going from around $100 to $125 CAD isn't great either, but at least the buyer still gets VG-10.

That said, the FRN handled Byrd knives going from $40 to $50 CAD doesn't seem to hurt as much from that perspective. Perhaps increasing the lower priced Chinese made knives price by a larger margin, ~30%, and the higher priced Chinese made knives by ~20% (just for example), you might find a more comfortable middle-ground.

I've been a fan of Spyderco since I started collecting and using knives. I hope you find a solution you find comfortable, given the situation. Seeing a value-line produced in the States would be incredible, even if it's only a pipe dream.
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Here in the US the Tenacious averages $50, so it going ip to $60 wouldn't even be noticed by most buyers in its intended market which is an intro or budget (yet still quality built) knife. They used to be about $40 and my first was $35 appx.
If the competitors knives in the same class and same/similar materials goes up as well then it really isn't much different than how its been. Except maybe closing the gap very slightly to the non budget series like the PM2 or similar. If buyers buy a PM2 instead because the gap is smaller then its still a win, just fewer budget knives.
 
Boxer .45 said:
Here in the US the Tenacious averages $50, so it going ip to $60 wouldn't even be noticed by most buyers in its intended market which is an intro or budget (yet still quality built) knife. They used to be about $40 and my first was $35 appx.
If the competitors knives in the same class and same/similar materials goes up as well then it really isn't much different than how its been. Except maybe closing the gap very slightly to the non budget series like the PM2 or similar. If buyers buy a PM2 instead because the gap is smaller then its still a win, just fewer budget knives.
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Fair points, I had merely used the pricing I was locally familiar with. Of course you're right, competition is always a factor.
 
Sorry but there's a couple things about the math here that really bother me.

What people are missing here is a percent of one number is not the same as another (let me explain)

I don't know that the manufacturing cost of a knife is but lets pretend it's $20 and I sell the knife for $60.
Well 25% added onto $20 = $25 so it costs me $5 more.
If I tack on 25% onto $60 = $75 so I'm now charging $15 more. (I'm making $10 extra over my costs)

So to me if the manufacturer simply passes on the extra costs and charges $65 that's fair, but the $75 is kinda gouging.

I think it's 6.95 yuan to 1 Us dollar yet the knives are not %595 cheaper then a US made knife so obviously there's quite a bit more mark up and profit on them. So IMHO I think there's a little bit of room to tighten the belt so to say.

Chinese made Spyderco, and byrds are great knives but lets be honest they are not as collectible. They are the gateway into collecting more and better Spyderco's. I think you need to keep them priced just low enough that a first time buyer, or newer knife person will chose them over SOG, CRKT, Cold Steel Etc. That way they will get hooked and buy more expensive models later on and you will make your money back if not more that way.
 
cbrstar said:
Sorry but there's a couple things about the math here that really bother me.

What people are missing here is a percent of one number is not the same as another (let me explain)

I don't know that the manufacturing cost of a knife is but lets pretend it's $20 and I sell the knife for $60.
Well 25% added onto $20 = $25 so it costs me $5 more.
If I tack on 25% onto $60 = $75 so I'm now charging $15 more. (I'm making $10 extra over my costs)

So to me if the manufacturer simply passes on the extra costs and charges $65 that's fair, but the $75 is kinda gouging.

I think it's 6.95 yuan to 1 Us dollar yet the knives are not %595 cheaper then a US made knife so obviously there's quite a bit more mark up and profit on them. So IMHO I think there's a little bit of room to tighten the belt so to say.

Chinese made Spyderco, and byrds are great knives but lets be honest they are not as collectible. They are the gateway into collecting more and better Spyderco's. I think you need to keep them priced just low enough that a first time buyer, or newer knife person will chose them over SOG, CRKT, Cold Steel Etc. That way they will get hooked and buy more expensive models later on and you will make your money back if not more that way.
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Sal didn't clarify if it was a 25% increase to manufactured cost or final MSRP. I was assuming he meant on the MSRP. He said "as much as 25% on expensive steels".

He brought it up for an open discussion with Spyderco owners (which he didn't have to do [how many others do you see doing it]). I actually appreciate the candid and general transparency of it myself.
 
I have little interest in the Chinese lineup. For the average guy, who is not a knife fanatic, those increases could sour them on buying a Spyderco.
 
DJC72 said:
I have little interest in the Chinese lineup. For the average guy, who is not a knife fanatic, those increases could sour them on buying a Spyderco.
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Please explain how? If the competition goes up the same amount how is $12 ($62 instead of $50 for example) going to sour someone that doesn't follow higher end knives? Are they suddenly going to buy a different brand that has also gone up 25% or instead cut quality substantially to make up for the 25%?
 
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