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Chisel Grind Performance vs Conventional V Grind??

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by m woodley, Sep 20, 2014.

  1. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    IIRC, most Emersons are only chisel ground at the edge but feature a double beveled primary grind.

    Chisel grinds can be very handy, but they're definitely more narrow in application vs. a conventional symmetrical grind under most circumstances or design iterations.
     
  2. m woodley

    m woodley

    230
    Jun 29, 2012
    Would it make the Microtech Socom Elite more usable as a EDC if I put a micro bevel on the flat side? Will this help with blade control or will this screw up the blade totally?
     
  3. rpnp

    rpnp

    270
    Jun 1, 2013
    Same... It cuts, hardly ever even notice it. In all honestly it sounds like half the people are in a lab with all the precision cutting thats needs to be done daily for them.
     
  4. Colinz

    Colinz

    Feb 16, 2001
    I have only one real problem with chisel grinds - percieved value. A V-grind cost more to make (all other factors equal) than a chisel grind. I don't see an increase in value in a knife with a chisel grind. I see a knife that during production takes 50% off the set-up time in the grinding portion of production process. In a chisel grind with a steep grind I see another way of cutting cost, saving money on grinding belts and time.

    I really don't have anything against a properly designed and produced chisel ground knife but if I compare it to a similar V-grind it has to be cheaper with a proper angle so I can sharpen it.

    I haven't found one of those yet.
     
  5. MasterPisaster

    MasterPisaster

    774
    Apr 15, 2012
    Seems like Emerson has done just fine making knives the way he has.

    That said, my 7 cuts when it needs to. Not much more to it than that. Don't know what kind of precision cutting others are doing, but for me, it works.
     
  6. EChoil

    EChoil Banned BANNED

    May 22, 2014
    I just know it cuts and cuts well.
     
  7. james terrio

    james terrio Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket

    Apr 15, 2010
    I've never understood why the differences/geometry involved are so "controversial". It's funny how such a simple thing like a knife blade can arouse so much hatred in some folks, and rabid adoration from different people. A chisel grind is nothing more than a V-grind canted a couple degrees in relation to the handle.

    It's not so much the grind style that causes problems, but the angles involved. Many production knives (especially "tactical" ones) are too damn thick and not ground acutely enough regardless of style... that only magnifies any issues with the knife not cutting straight or performing well in general. I do actually like a well-ground full-height chisel grind, even on a 3-4" blade - they cut just fine in one hand or the other. On a wider kitchen knife, they slice extremely well; not just for fish and meat but on veggies too. But I make very few of them because they're just not as versatile as a normal FFG.

    You're sort of right... makeready is kind of simpler. To a handmade maker, that's really not going to matter... to a largely-automated factory cranking out 1000 blades at a time I imagine it does add up.

    But you're still removing the same amount of steel as on a V-ground knife, assuming the grind height/stock thickness/included angles are the same. So I suspect any cost-savings on belts/wheels is pretty negligible if it exists at all.

    As for manu's charging more for chisel grinds... are there actual examples of a company selling the same pattern with a V-grind for less than the same pattern with a chisel grind?
     
  8. Millie Maniac

    Millie Maniac

    250
    Feb 19, 2013

    BINGO!!!!!! I think Ernie knows what he is doing! Heck I actually prefer a chisel grind on my blades to me they make a cleaner cut. My zero grind Emerson can cut the fabric of space and time. Heck the razors that you guys shave with are chisel ground. I dont understand what the big deal is with the grind if it works use it if not sharpen your blade!
     
  9. m woodley

    m woodley

    230
    Jun 29, 2012
    I knew you guys were out there. I am going to use my chisel ground knife just the way it is and I will let you know after a couple of months if it is a good or bad thing. I will be using it for odd jobs on the ranch, home projects and all around EDC. Keep the personal experiences coming...this is great information!
     
  10. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. Banned Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    If I want a chisel grind I'll buy a chisel.
     
  11. AVigil

    AVigil Adam Vigil knifemaker working the grind Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Platinum Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    My EDC is a chisel grind blade.

    It makes flat end cuts on tubing and wood and it is takes a far more aggressive cut in wood then a V grind.

    It does great cutting salami and cheese as well :)

    As a fighting knife the chisel blade penetrates easier and leaves a wound that does not close up well.

    I make and carry full flat ground blades as well as chisel ground blades....no big deal really they are tools and variety in the knife hobby is what keeps things interesting.

    If people have problems controlling a chisel ground blade...it is probably better for everyone they carry a blade they can control.

    Oh and BTW the same amount of steel is removed...not less and the same amount of belts are used. As for being easier...not really. If you use a file guide to grind a V grind it is very easy to get a clean plunge, but on a chisel grind the plunge is much deeper and trickier to keep clean and smooth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  12. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    How's that exactly?
     
  13. marcinek

    marcinek

    Jan 9, 2007
    Because Emerson uses it? :D

    You are right on the money, as usual. Its gonna leave the same wound as anything else. Geometry, people. Don't have to like it, but you can't pretend it's not real.
     
  14. marcinek

    marcinek

    Jan 9, 2007
    Precisely. Here's a magic trick. Everybody with a Mora, pick it up. Rotate it so that one of the ground portions is now straight up and down. Tadaaaa! Now its a chisel grind.
     
  15. AVigil

    AVigil Adam Vigil knifemaker working the grind Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Platinum Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    It penetrates easier because of much less parasitic drag on the blade as it enters and because it creates an asymmetrical wound and does not self seal as a symmetrical one it tends to gape open.

    Michael Janich has taught this and teaches to do a comma cut for the same reason.
     
  16. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. Banned Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    I have other things that work better at penetrating than knives and tend to stick with that.
     
  17. jhawk66901

    jhawk66901

    214
    Jun 1, 2013
    You would think that if he was that big on chisel ground edges over v ground that Mr. Janich would have designed the Yojimbo with a chisel edge. I don't really know how everyone's chisel edge does for them, I do know my PM2 sharpened to 40 inclusive had no problem leaving a gaping wound on my hand.
     
  18. Tripton

    Tripton Gold Member Gold Member

    May 26, 2008
    I was totally waiting for someone to bring "parasitic drag" into this.

    If only every other knife manufacturer could figure out how to make knives that cut as well (or better) than an Emerson. :rolleyes:
     
  19. AVigil

    AVigil Adam Vigil knifemaker working the grind Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Platinum Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Phill Hartsfield demonstrated that at his tables at knife shows. He would take business card and ask you to push your blade tip first into to it and stop when there was no resistance. So I took my knife FFG and push it through feeling the drag all the way.

    Then I took one of his blades, push it into the card and once it cleared the tanto tip the blade slip effortless down to the handle.

    "Cutting better" is not the problem. Different grinds cut and pierce material differently.

    A lot of great makers like Hartsfield, Fisk, Snody, RJ Martin, Emerson used the chisel grind because performs well for it intended use.

    Some people have a problem using it...good thing there are plenty of other grind styles to choose from.
     
  20. K.O.D.

    K.O.D. Banned Platinum Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Piercing ability is in my experience not high on most peoples list, as there are better tools for self defense than a knife. This would be why the vast majority of knives use a flat or hollow grind. The problem is when an otherwise cool knife has a chisel grind which is less utilitarian than a more traditional grind. That's one of the main reason I don't own an Emerson.
     

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