Those are very close to my preferences too. I like 20 for EDC and 25 for my woods knives.
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Choosing Fixed Survival Knife.
- Thread starter jeffetcs
- Start date
Those are very close to my preferences too. I like 20 for EDC and 25 for my woods knives.
...
Beauties. Sigh, I gotta make do with the new ones. You're making me really jelly. Thanks for posting those lovely pics!
For the people asking for more reasons and what I am looking for I will display what I am going on about.
Something that can hold an edge (RARELY SHARPEN)
Shock Proof
Uses: Chopping, Battening, etc.
Can handle lots of abuse
Years of use
Good warranty service,
The price does not matter to me
Something that can hold an edge (RARELY SHARPEN)
Shock Proof
Uses: Chopping, Battening, etc.
Can handle lots of abuse
Years of use
Good warranty service,
The price does not matter to me
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Perhaps not my first choice,
But I wouldn't be afraid of it either,
In reality, you could do a lot worse,
Pick a knife you like. That is comfortable in your hand. Use it, and get good with it. The knife doesn't really matter that much. It's knowing what to do with it.
But I wouldn't be afraid of it either,
In reality, you could do a lot worse,
Pick a knife you like. That is comfortable in your hand. Use it, and get good with it. The knife doesn't really matter that much. It's knowing what to do with it.
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- 20,207
Jeffetcs, edges can blunt from abrasion or from mechanical damage - chipping or rolling, great or small.
Greater resistance to mechanical damage tends to be purchased at a cost in less resistance to abrasion.
And you want to chop - use the knife as an impact tool. That suggests toughness is important. But tough knives do not lead the list in abrasion resistance.
You want what everyone wants and have been seeking for years.
I "solved" the problem by carrying stropping/sharpening gear when away from home base.
Greater resistance to mechanical damage tends to be purchased at a cost in less resistance to abrasion.
And you want to chop - use the knife as an impact tool. That suggests toughness is important. But tough knives do not lead the list in abrasion resistance.
You want what everyone wants and have been seeking for years.
I "solved" the problem by carrying stropping/sharpening gear when away from home base.
I found the Lansky rod system was like training wheels for learning to sharpen. I would have never cracked the code for hand sharpening without it. Or, it would have taken a lot longer.
I carry a DMT credit card sharpener when in teh woods. Works great.
LV nailed it. Pick one you like. Or pick several cheap ones with different grinds and blade shapes. Screw around in the back yard and form your own thoughts.
I carry a DMT credit card sharpener when in teh woods. Works great.
LV nailed it. Pick one you like. Or pick several cheap ones with different grinds and blade shapes. Screw around in the back yard and form your own thoughts.
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Going from this description, you might check out something like the Scrapyard 711. The steel is SR101 (52100 with Busse heat treat). Holds an edge well and is coated to protect against corrosion. The res-c handle mitigates shock well during chopping and batoning. It can absolutely handle tons of abuse. I've used my original for all the worst jobs and it just keeps shrugging them off. Covered by the Busse warranty. The biggest hiccup would be that they're out of production, and you'd have to try to find one on the Busse Exchange, but I do see them come up now and again.
This is a valid argument against what I said. But, as I described, I am sure I felt the cracking upon the twisting, and, to me, it was a split second before the actual pulling out.
There is no way that I can prove the order in which each action happened, but the fact the chipping occurred in pairs is an indication of lateral forces working in opposite directions on an axis: If it was by ingress "preparation" damage, followed by pull-out "tear-out" of pre-existing damage, the damage would be more random or "centered" it seems to me. It can't be proven either way...
The knives were ground too thin at the time, and have been opened slightly since the chips were erased.
It is also worthy of note that two very different steels behaved in the exact same way with similar blade shapes: You could hardly have two steels further apart than 5160 and D-2, yet the same basic forces had the exact same effect. I think the ground wood, softened on the outside, accentuated an effect that would be less obvious and less commonly seen otherwise, since the harder inner wood core creates a contrast with the softer outer wood.
That being said, outer-softened ground wood would be a common item to use in actual "Survival", which shows that by using wood on the actual terrain, the knife will show things that would escape square-lumber backyard testers...
I still maintain the less-efficient Sabre Grind Hollow Grind, because it "wedges" itself more severely, protects the edge apex better from involuntary side loads. The downside of that is that the sabre grind's "Primary Grind Line" can bounce on the edge of a V cut, forcing a less efficient more open "V" cut to avoid vicious bounces that can sweep sideways (Narrow blades like the CR one piece are especially prone to this)...
The Full Flat Grind is more efficient, making a noticeably narrower "V", but this grind requires more care on pulling out big knives... My favourite blade for use is actually a Full Flat Grind, now that I know its "weaknesses" (it is relatively feasible to avoid side twists, and to open slightly the edge angle to a tougher 15 per side rather than 12), but the whole concept of "Survival" is that you will not be at your best... Hence the lower efficiency but greater reliability of hollow grinds is -in theory- more appropriate to hard chopping use on wood items of unpredictable density.
Gaston
Gaston, you are talking about chopping to section wood 1.5" or more in diameter, no?
I don't see the point of using a knife for this. Better to just carry a saw IMO. Unless of course you are into chopping just for the sake of chopping, in which case we're drifting from the OPs question of survival to recreational chopping.
I don't see the point of using a knife for this. Better to just carry a saw IMO. Unless of course you are into chopping just for the sake of chopping, in which case we're drifting from the OPs question of survival to recreational chopping.
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I do like the look of Hard Knocks Scrapyard 711. Reminds me of my old CR Project. A less expensive but good track record alternative would be the JP Peltanon to try the style. For something a little pointy then I do like something 7" or so. But its not for chopping,
Most of the time I like something shorter in the 4"-6" and hunter style, bushcraft style. I like Survive Knives GSO's and I like the Terava Jaarkaripuukkos. But there are shed loads o choose from, Bark River, Essee 6 etc. These can't chop for toffee. However, some are made to baton and well up to it. Be careful because not all hunting styles can do what a bushcraft can, and some bushcraft aren't that great as hunting knives. Some knives are made to be more specialised.
The first good knife for chopping that I recommend is the Skama; the thinking man's golock. I've promoted it a lot since I discovered it because I think its fab. Its hard to find a good chopping blade. However, I've yet to find any knife that truly competes with the chop of an axe. The few I have have been terrible at being a knife. Knives are rubbish at chopping anything big. Small stuff and green stuff maybe, but not anything substantial. However big they build them they are all rubbish; get an axe.
For pure weight efficiency then a saw does it.
Those KarBars show some love, and from their age must have had some luck. There is a lot to be said of the classic utility/combat sheath knife. Gets a lot of utility from a reasonable package. Used for cutting, poking, digging, prying, just about anything. The old veteran blades I've come across are often not very sharp. At best adequate in the edge department. Troops didn't have great sharpening skills or fancy sharpening systems. Lucky if the blade saw a stone much, and so long as it could bludgeon its way through a job then that was fine. Cutting sandbags and digging out roots kills an edge. If it bust then it was a casualty of war and was replaced. Just had to survive one battle at a time. Funny how its perceived that soldiers know how to use knives. They don't, its a learned skill and some find out or knew already and some never do and never will. I love the history these blades show.
Most of the time I like something shorter in the 4"-6" and hunter style, bushcraft style. I like Survive Knives GSO's and I like the Terava Jaarkaripuukkos. But there are shed loads o choose from, Bark River, Essee 6 etc. These can't chop for toffee. However, some are made to baton and well up to it. Be careful because not all hunting styles can do what a bushcraft can, and some bushcraft aren't that great as hunting knives. Some knives are made to be more specialised.
The first good knife for chopping that I recommend is the Skama; the thinking man's golock. I've promoted it a lot since I discovered it because I think its fab. Its hard to find a good chopping blade. However, I've yet to find any knife that truly competes with the chop of an axe. The few I have have been terrible at being a knife. Knives are rubbish at chopping anything big. Small stuff and green stuff maybe, but not anything substantial. However big they build them they are all rubbish; get an axe.
For pure weight efficiency then a saw does it.
Those KarBars show some love, and from their age must have had some luck. There is a lot to be said of the classic utility/combat sheath knife. Gets a lot of utility from a reasonable package. Used for cutting, poking, digging, prying, just about anything. The old veteran blades I've come across are often not very sharp. At best adequate in the edge department. Troops didn't have great sharpening skills or fancy sharpening systems. Lucky if the blade saw a stone much, and so long as it could bludgeon its way through a job then that was fine. Cutting sandbags and digging out roots kills an edge. If it bust then it was a casualty of war and was replaced. Just had to survive one battle at a time. Funny how its perceived that soldiers know how to use knives. They don't, its a learned skill and some find out or knew already and some never do and never will. I love the history these blades show.
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Here are some specialised tools:
Note the one in the middle. It is a converted Blackjack Samba to a golock. Its feather light, and very thin. Its for cutting big greenery, big leafy things. It would buckle if used on oak or even giant dry bamboo.
The village parang, on the right, is a great little worker, but if used on oak chopping then the edge breaks out. Bamboo fine and great for what it was intended, jungle around a village and the village veg garden.
The GB Small Forest Axe and Blackjack Marauder MKII could at a push build a log cabin. The Jungle Parang is heavy duty and would build a landing strip if not a bamboo village. However, a good bow saw is safer and will produce enough logs for a camp fire.
Humans specialised to survive, as reflected in their specialised tools.
Note the one in the middle. It is a converted Blackjack Samba to a golock. Its feather light, and very thin. Its for cutting big greenery, big leafy things. It would buckle if used on oak or even giant dry bamboo.
The village parang, on the right, is a great little worker, but if used on oak chopping then the edge breaks out. Bamboo fine and great for what it was intended, jungle around a village and the village veg garden.
The GB Small Forest Axe and Blackjack Marauder MKII could at a push build a log cabin. The Jungle Parang is heavy duty and would build a landing strip if not a bamboo village. However, a good bow saw is safer and will produce enough logs for a camp fire.
Humans specialised to survive, as reflected in their specialised tools.
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In conversations like these. I think it pays to spend some time defining "Survival" Because it means different things to different people.
Big choppers are cool no doubt. And they rock at building shelters. But now that you have that shelter built. You come to realize you expeneded a lot of calories to construct it. Next comes calorie replacement. Or as I like to call it, food.
Big knives are no where near as much fun when it comes to building Figure fours, bird snares, and other traps. They will clean fish, put they're not the best at it. A wise man once said to me. You can only hunt when you are awake. And you only hunt well a short period of that awake time. Traps and snare work 24 hours a day.
You can pull Rabbits, Squirrels, and Partridge, apart with your bare hands. I have breasted many a partridge by pulling on the legs. I know a guy who used to skin squirrels and mice with a razor blade. He would tack the mice up on a board as trophies.
Chopping is certainly cool. But you can build a suitable shelter from wrist sized material. And it will serve you well.
A sharp 3"-4" knife will do that handily. Beaver style. I pays to look toward the Beaver for some learning. They cut down some amazing timber. With their small, but sharp teeth. They build shelters that not only keep the rain off them. But ones that hold back entire rivers. All with out a survival knife. If it is too big for the beaver, leave it alone.
Make sure you know how to build a frog gig. Frog gig work on frogs. But work on other prey too. They make a decent hiking staff, and you can poke things with them.
Wrapping & Frapping is a skill it pays to learn. Whether you you use twine or make cordage from Spruce roots. Any sharp knife will do.
Tent pegs are cool,
Make them smaller and turn them upside down and they serve other less benign purposes.
I like tongs for working around a fire. Placing coals, adjusting wood, flipping Mr. Squirrel, and other camp tasks.
Any sharp knife will do this kind of stuff.
Again, survival means different things to different people. Different climates, geography, demographics, all will will factor in.
My needs are different than a bar fight in Chicago. Which arguably, could be equally described as survival. Plus all the scenarios in between.
A good, sharp knife, and the ability to keep it that way. Along with know what you need. Will go a long way to overcoming most obstacles.
Unless of course we're talking Hollywood. Then we need big, toothy, shiny, tools. Ironically, Rambo acquired his large knife, not out of necessity for survival. But because the director felt his original wouldn't show up well on film. So he replaced the original with a much larger more visable one. And an American Icon was born.
Big choppers are cool no doubt. And they rock at building shelters. But now that you have that shelter built. You come to realize you expeneded a lot of calories to construct it. Next comes calorie replacement. Or as I like to call it, food.
Big knives are no where near as much fun when it comes to building Figure fours, bird snares, and other traps. They will clean fish, put they're not the best at it. A wise man once said to me. You can only hunt when you are awake. And you only hunt well a short period of that awake time. Traps and snare work 24 hours a day.
You can pull Rabbits, Squirrels, and Partridge, apart with your bare hands. I have breasted many a partridge by pulling on the legs. I know a guy who used to skin squirrels and mice with a razor blade. He would tack the mice up on a board as trophies.
Chopping is certainly cool. But you can build a suitable shelter from wrist sized material. And it will serve you well.
A sharp 3"-4" knife will do that handily. Beaver style. I pays to look toward the Beaver for some learning. They cut down some amazing timber. With their small, but sharp teeth. They build shelters that not only keep the rain off them. But ones that hold back entire rivers. All with out a survival knife. If it is too big for the beaver, leave it alone.
Make sure you know how to build a frog gig. Frog gig work on frogs. But work on other prey too. They make a decent hiking staff, and you can poke things with them.
Wrapping & Frapping is a skill it pays to learn. Whether you you use twine or make cordage from Spruce roots. Any sharp knife will do.
Tent pegs are cool,
Make them smaller and turn them upside down and they serve other less benign purposes.
I like tongs for working around a fire. Placing coals, adjusting wood, flipping Mr. Squirrel, and other camp tasks.
Any sharp knife will do this kind of stuff.
Again, survival means different things to different people. Different climates, geography, demographics, all will will factor in.
My needs are different than a bar fight in Chicago. Which arguably, could be equally described as survival. Plus all the scenarios in between.
A good, sharp knife, and the ability to keep it that way. Along with know what you need. Will go a long way to overcoming most obstacles.
Unless of course we're talking Hollywood. Then we need big, toothy, shiny, tools. Ironically, Rambo acquired his large knife, not out of necessity for survival. But because the director felt his original wouldn't show up well on film. So he replaced the original with a much larger more visable one. And an American Icon was born.
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There is a lot to be said about the utility/combat sheath knife. Soldiers, since bayonets became pretty redundant, liked them. Though today a multitool or folder might well do everything they need. Soldiers have too much kit to carry at the best of times.
I'm an old soldier so am a fan. I also like team tools, especially when each team member can carry something specialised for the team. Spade, bow saw, machete, axe....water purification system.
Here are some vids that sum up the Skrama. It a good team tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxbNupxUygM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YY8IjJx9p8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZSrsR-IGQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8e6g6ML1bc
All fun, be safe.
I'm an old soldier so am a fan. I also like team tools, especially when each team member can carry something specialised for the team. Spade, bow saw, machete, axe....water purification system.
Here are some vids that sum up the Skrama. It a good team tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxbNupxUygM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YY8IjJx9p8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZSrsR-IGQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8e6g6ML1bc
All fun, be safe.
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Paul_Atreides
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In conversations like these. I think it pays to spend some time defining "Survival" Because it means different things to different people.
Big choppers are cool no doubt. And they rock at building shelters. But now that you have that shelter built. You come to realize you expeneded a lot of calories to construct it. Next comes calorie replacement. Or as I like to call it, food.
Big knives are no where near as much fun when it comes to building Figure fours, bird snares, and other traps. They will clean fish, put they're not the best at it. A wise man once said to me. You can only hunt when you are awake. And you only hunt well a short period of that awake time. Traps and snare work 24 hours a day.
You can pull Rabbits, Squirrels, and Partridge, apart with your bare hands. I have breasted many a partridge by pulling on the legs. I know a guy who used to skin squirrels and mice with a razor blade. He would tack the mice up on a board as trophies.
Chopping is certainly cool. But you can build a suitable shelter from wrist sized material. And it will serve you well.
A sharp 3"-4" knife will do that handily. Beaver style. I pays to look toward the Beaver for some learning. They cut down some amazing timber. With their small, but sharp teeth. They build shelters that not only keep the rain off them. But ones that hold back entire rivers. All with out a survival knife. If it is too big for the beaver, leave it alone.
Make sure you know how to build a frog gig. Frog gig work on frogs. But work on other prey too. They make a decent hiking staff, and you can poke things with them.
Wrapping & Frapping is a skill it pays to learn. Whether you you use twine or make cordage from Spruce roots. Any sharp knife will do.
Tent pegs are cool,
Make them smaller and turn them upside down and they serve other less benign purposes.
I like tongs for working around a fire. Placing coals, adjusting wood, flipping Mr. Squirrel, and other camp tasks.
Any sharp knife will do this kind of stuff.
Again, survival means different things to different people. Different climates, geography, demographics, all will will factor in.
My needs are different than a bar fight in Chicago. Which arguably, could be equally described as survival. Plus all the scenarios in between.
A good, sharp knife, and the ability to keep it that way. Along with know what you need. Will go a long way to overcoming most obstacles.
Unless of course we're talking Hollywood. Then we need big, toothy, shiny, tools. Ironically, Rambo acquired his large knife, not out of necessity for survival. But because the director felt his original wouldn't show up well on film. So he replaced the original with a much larger more visable one. And an American Icon was born.
HEY, THAT'S MY KNIFE!!!
Little do you know Viking that your Dog's Head thread is what convinced me to get one
I must admit, I've always loved the SOG Super Bowie too but, from what I hear they are not made as good these days as they are no longer made in Japan. Which is pretty sad actually, considering the Super Bowie is the knife that launched the SOG brand and made it a success. I think I've stories about people actually breaking theirs from moderately hard use. Is yours Japanese or is it made in Taiwan??
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Here's a dude that needs to go over to the Busse forum and hang out for awhile.
The Hogs will get you where you need to be, Jeffetcs. No need to go looking for it, here's a link:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/713-Busse-Combat-Knives
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That list does bring the Busses and kin to mind, especially once you get to the price doesn't matter part.
OP, if you're looking for rock solid warranty, masterful heat treatment and the ability to take abuse and are willing to pay for it, this is definitely a company you should check out. Combine that with a dizzying number of models and variants (that cover most fixed blade design categories with a number of options) over the years and at least one is likely to be one of the final contenders as you narrow your search.
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Busse certainly make tough as tanks knives. Not cheap but exceptional and almost an institution in their own right. Huge following.
I have reservations as I've yet to find one that I liked. Not saying I never will, but haven't so far. Years ago if I had had bought one of the first Battle Mistresses I might be in profit now. For me they have too much metal and though hold a sharp edge just too much of everything, including weight. As beater blades they have no parallel. To me they are truck knives especially the larger offerings. The smaller styles too much too them and just don't work for me. If they are your style, you can find one that you like, and have deep pockets, then have one; just don't ask me to carry it.
I'm just not into whacking chopping, nor want that much robustness built into my smaller knives if it means I don't get the dexterity I like.
Of the same ethos there are the CS Trailmaster, and Essee Junglas. Fantastic knives but to me they just don't have a place on the trail. Too much knife so not efficient at anything. The jobs they are efficient at aren't necessary if other tools are available. Or they are too big to carry on the body for normal living. They don't chop like an axe, they don't have the control of a small knife, and they are too unwieldily for brush cutting for any real time. Have one as a truck knife but I'd be amazed if anyone carried one for on the person field use. One mountain, one 10 miler hike, one battle fitness test and they aren't leaving home/locker/base camp.
So, though I respect them, I can't find a use for them. I'll not stop others having fun with them, just not for me. Some might say thats my problem.
I have reservations as I've yet to find one that I liked. Not saying I never will, but haven't so far. Years ago if I had had bought one of the first Battle Mistresses I might be in profit now. For me they have too much metal and though hold a sharp edge just too much of everything, including weight. As beater blades they have no parallel. To me they are truck knives especially the larger offerings. The smaller styles too much too them and just don't work for me. If they are your style, you can find one that you like, and have deep pockets, then have one; just don't ask me to carry it.
I'm just not into whacking chopping, nor want that much robustness built into my smaller knives if it means I don't get the dexterity I like.
Of the same ethos there are the CS Trailmaster, and Essee Junglas. Fantastic knives but to me they just don't have a place on the trail. Too much knife so not efficient at anything. The jobs they are efficient at aren't necessary if other tools are available. Or they are too big to carry on the body for normal living. They don't chop like an axe, they don't have the control of a small knife, and they are too unwieldily for brush cutting for any real time. Have one as a truck knife but I'd be amazed if anyone carried one for on the person field use. One mountain, one 10 miler hike, one battle fitness test and they aren't leaving home/locker/base camp.
So, though I respect them, I can't find a use for them. I'll not stop others having fun with them, just not for me. Some might say thats my problem.
cbach8tw
Platinum Member
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Quarter master knife, there is also a great Ontario Gen II SP49 fixed blade for sale in the production fixed blade section.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1472796-Ontario-Gen-II-SP49
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1472796-Ontario-Gen-II-SP49
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GREENJACKET, I definitely understand what you're saying. I have a couple of Busses that will most likely find their way onto the exchange at some point because of just the sort of issues you discussed and there's been far more that I've looked at the specs or a review and decided that that it just wasn't for me. A lot of them do tend toward the too overbuilt and heavy side of things for my taste but there's also some I like quite a lot.
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I'll take a shot at this even though I'm sure you already bought a knife. Go get yourself a Fallkniven A1 or a Fallkniven A1 Pro considering how rich you are and call it a day. Both knives are laminated, super tough, and well thought out. Many of the best survivalist in the world will tell you that its hard to knock the Fallkniven A1. If you want something smaller then a A1 then Id suggest getting a Fallkniven F1.