Choosing Fixed Survival Knife.

Pointshoot777 said:
We live in The Land of Marketing. We live in a time when we need to spend so many hours of our lives working to pay for the stuff marketed to us, that we have little time to build knowledge and skills. So often we try to substitute with more stuff that has been marketed to us, instead. - - Look at the kit used by mountain men, scouts, explorers, etc in America from the early to mid 1800s. Look at the rudimentary tools available then to American Indians. They are much lighter and more minimalist (and far cheaper) than what is called 'survival gear' today. No one with any knowledge would argue that those people weren't highly skilled back then.
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Take the Native Americans as an example. Of course they were highly skilled. They had to be in order to just survive, but let's not just over look the fact that the average life expectancy --- "At age 15, Mesoamerican life expectancies were extremely low... For those surviving to age 15, death came around age 28 through 44 on average."
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistori..._was_the_average_life_expectancy_of_a_native/

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/29/science/don-t-blame-columbus-for-all-the-indians-ills.html

www.binghamton.edu/history/docs/hacker-haines_american_indian.pdf
 
Yesteryear, people were skilled in their environment. We are skilled in ours. Life expectancy is a lot higher now. We now spend very little time looking for food, our water is clean. We have some permanent shelter, and substantial military might. Do't forget some excellent law and order. No serfdom, nor slavery. Basically our standard of living has never been higher. Well USA, UK, it is...

Urban survival can be a credit card and good health insurance.

Hunting, bushcraft, camping, even gardening, all have great skills that are worth learning even for high standard of living people. That it has to be packaged up as a form of recreation isn't that terrible. I enjoy it.
Quite true there is a multitude of consumer items targeted at any recognisable market. Some of it is quite good, some not quite as clever as the hype might suggest. Thats progress???

Lastly, civilisation was built with some pretty basic tools. Didn't stop us.
 
leghog said:
Take the Native Americans as an example. Of course they were highly skilled. They had to be in order to just survive, but let's not just over look the fact that the average life expectancy --- "At age 15, Mesoamerican life expectancies were extremely low... For those surviving to age 15, death came around age 28 through 44 on average."
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistori..._was_the_average_life_expectancy_of_a_native/

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/29/science/don-t-blame-columbus-for-all-the-indians-ills.html

www.binghamton.edu/history/docs/hacker-haines_american_indian.pdf
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Yes there certainly is the fact that modern science has made our lives better:
vaccines-organic-childbirth1.png


But that doesn't mean that getting out there in it with as little as possible between you and nature isn't nice today.

I personally really prefer to take a few tools rather than one to do everything. I much prefer a hatchet to a thick heavy chopping knife for most tasks. Of course, since I spend a lot of time clearing brush, I also acknowledge that sometimes a chopper or machete is actually a better tool for me than a hatchet. It all depends on what you are doing. But brush clearing isn't survival, and even for brush clearing I carry a scout knife folder for the little stuff.

All that said, if I had to pick a knife that I have experience with to be an all around survival knife, I realized that I actually did review the Ambush Alpha, and I was impressed with it.
Ambush%2Bcurls%2B(19).JPG


The 3V, as most here know, isn't stainless, but I have found it to be close enough for me. Plus, if the OP wants a knife they can beat on, 3V is great for that. It isn't as big as some of the knives the OP seems interested in, but it is a good sized knife. It is strong, good for beating sideways through a tree, and it is also pretty decent at actual cutting tasks too. It has a robust and not too pointy tip. The sheath options are good. All in all, maybe this could be something the OP looks at. It is about the same cost as the Black Rhino and a lot easier to use. My full review is here if anyone wanted to look at it.
 
Carother's Light Chopper-Outstanding Steel D3V-Outstanding corrosion resistance with an almost 10 Inch long blade and TeroTuf Handles-Under 18 ounces
 
TommyGun56 said:
Carother's Light Chopper-Outstanding Steel D3V-Outstanding corrosion resistance with an almost 10 Inch long blade and TeroTuf Handles-Under 18 ounces
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That knife is my number one dream knife right now. The deal I made with my wife is that I get to buy one after I submit an article for publication. I think that knife would be perfect for the brush clearing work I do. But they are not easy to buy.
 
Gaston444 said:
At minimum I feel it should provide chopping: Because of this I feel blades under 10" are inefficient, but I suggested the Super Bowie because I know some of the smaller knives can be surprisingly efficient with high weight and a hollow grind. I was trying to stay within the OP's length preference...



Hollow grinds offer better edge protection against accidental side loads: This requires much less care when "unsticking" the edge while chopping. Much of the worst apex damage I observed occurs on retrieval, NOT ALWAYS, or even usually, on the way in... Something very few "experts" seem to be aware of, which makes me wonder just how much we should listen to them...

I don't understand why turning big sticks into small sticks is such a requirement that it should have any effect on the design of a knife... In fact, I have been interested in this for 30 years, and I defy anyone to show me an article detailing this task as something that should influence Survival Knife design prior to 1995...

Furthermore, unless the edge is kept at an extremely blunt angle, such as 20 degrees per side and over, the edge beaten parallel to the grain will inevitably suffer micro-folds because the grain is not dead straight... Edges opened to 20 degrees per side perform so poorly they make many small effort tasks into dangerous major effort tasks, especially simple things like cutting rope fibers and meat, reducing the utility of the knife... Losing 5 degrees per side easily reduces the effort by half... But then, they will micro-fold when batoning... Batoning or actual cutting/chopping? My choice is clear...




Japanese-made Aus-8 and 440 knives are very reliable, and in fact hard to surpass... Where the knife is made is what matters. I'll concede Taiwan is not promising, which is why I so far I never got one...



I don't defend the tip: I prefer spear-points (in theory).



I owned the SOG Tech II which is a quite similar knife but lighter: Again the overall weight will help, but I understood about the buttcap being steel. The hollow grind I knew would be a huge plus. Again, I was trying to comply with the OP's low price: Not my first choice, but the best "small" I could think of, and I do know from a reviewer it could make deep single hit bites that were quite eloquent to see...



Until you see a rotten handle, this is more theoretical than real, especially with a stainless tang...

The one point I agree with is the "fighting point" robs tip mass for chopping, but it can add versatility in other things.... It's not a deal breaker to me, but I do agree it doesn't belong on a dedicated "Survival Knife"...

Gaston
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I'd be very interested in a technical writeup on the testing methods you use to arrive at many of the "facts" that you constantly expound. Of special interest to me would be the method by which you inspect the edge for damage while it's still embedded in the wood you're chopping so that you know with certainty what damage occurred when the blade was entering the wood and what occurred on retrieval. I suspect that many of the "so called experts" that we aren't supposed to listen to would also be interested in such useful information so that they can be more informed than their current unfortunate lack of knowledge.

I actually have a couple of knives with rotten leather handles. How they got that way, I have no idea. They came in a group that I bought at an antique shop because I wanted a couple of old Westerns in the lot. I paid little to nothing for them. Incidentally, both of the knives with rotten leather handles also still have perfectly serviceable carbon steel blades, so whatever the poor things went through that left the leather in such a sorry state wasn't enough to rust non-stainless steel to the point of uselessness. My point wasn't that leather is a bad handle material (in fact I like it a lot), it was that if you insist on nothing but stainless because you aren't willing to do the minimal maintenance required to keep carbon steel in acceptable condition, I hardly think that leather handles with the maintenance that they need is a good fit for you.
 
Gaston444 said:
Bernard Levine said over 30 years ago that he examined tens of thousands of knives, and stainless steels were superior to carbon in every aspect of performance. Nothing has changed since, except that diamond hones have nullified even the sharpening ease advantage...



Maybe so, but it is common enough to have had more than one thread on this subject alone... Also the warping involves the handle, so looking at the blade alone is not enough. Plus a huge number of people can't see this sort of thing... Europeans who paid top dollars to import BK-20s were pretty shocked by what passes for "workmanship" at BK... Ontario is cheaper and does not have these issues.

Gaston
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Honestly, I would have thought we disagreed about enough without you going through the effort of editing my forum name into a quote that you didn't agree with from a different member. Good grief.
 
Some great ideas here.

A few just awful as well.
Hollow grinds offer better edge protection against accidental side loads:
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Seems to be the way it goes.
 
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GREENJACKET said:
Big, heavy, bomb proof might have attraction in theory but no one wants to carry them. Reality is something much more sensible and portable.
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I do. :)
Check my threads and you'll see me carrying and using knives others deem "too heavy to carry."
Guess I just didn't get the memo. ;)

And sensible is just another word for boring. :D
Life is too short to waste it being sensible. :thumbup:
 
As for what I'd have in a "survival situation," well, I forgot I had the BK7 in my backpack for a couple of months; carried it all over the place, to university, to the gym, on the bus, to the mall, wherever I went.

For at least those few months, my "survival knife" would have been a BK7.
It didn't feel much heavier than my pack normally is, which is why I forgot it was in there.

Other times it would be whatever was in my pockets along with the Swisschamp that is always in the pack...I also have a bottle of "survival water" in it at all times, along with some "survival gum," and "survival Kleenex"(everything sounds way more adventurous when you put the word "survival" in front of it :D).
 
We get back to the very specific 'survival' circumstances of the user. Is this kit to take on a hiking trip ? Where & when ? Is it something you want to have in your vehicle on the drive to Grandma's place at Christmas? Are you a bush pilot flying to remote locations in Alaska ? Do you plan to vacation by doing some minimalist camping & bushcrafting up in the mountains this coming summer? Or, do you just want to own some big azz knife ? IMO a lot of guys lay out specs for their knives that they never actually need & that can even work against how they would likely use a tool. - Example: car camper who never gets more than a mile or two from the road. Wants a 'chopper' when he can easily bring a hatchet. His chopper is like a somewhat sharpened crowbar and doesn't do the tasks that takes most of his time, which is camp food prep.


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Pointshoot777 said:
We get back to the very specific 'survival' circumstances of the user.
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Totally agreed.

To throw in the trunk of a car?
Pretty much whatever knife you like can fit in the trunk of a car.

Carry a backpack everywhere?
Plenty of options, but a 3 pound knife might get a bit annoying.

Wear lightweight clothes and live somewhere too hot for a jacket?
That will take more thought...perhaps a Victorinox Camper would work though (not a fixed blade, but the saw works well).
 
stabman said:
...I also have a bottle of "survival water" in it at all times, along with some "survival gum," and "survival Kleenex"(everything sounds way more adventurous when you put the word "survival" in front of it :D).
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Don't forget "tactical." "Tactical survival water" :thumbup:
 
Stabman, I'm very happy for you that you are all survival tooled up. Just be careful when you jaywalk carrying all that stuff.

You have to start somewhere.
I actually am a fan of people making up their own survival tins. Not that you will probably be carrying it when the bad happens, but the exercise of making one up at least means you have thought through what necessities might just be handy.
Having a big chopper and finding out how they work, or don't, isn't a bad exercise either.

I have disc compression now (had it operated on) from carrying far too much weight for the military when I was in my twenties. Cold War warrior and all that; wouldn't change a thing. I carry just enough now and enjoy life more.
I choose the most efficient selection of tools for the job. Carry very little surplus kit, and anything heavy really does need to be warranted.

I think I said earlier, whatever floats your boat.
 
Pointshoot777 said:
We live in The Land of Marketing. We live in a time when we need to spend so many hours of our lives working to pay for the stuff marketed to us, that we have little time to build knowledge and skills. So often we try to substitute with more stuff that has been marketed to us, instead. - - Look at the kit used by mountain men, scouts, explorers, etc in America from the early to mid 1800s. Look at the rudimentary tools available then to American Indians. They are much lighter and more minimalist (and far cheaper) than what is called 'survival gear' today. No one with any knowledge would argue that those people weren't highly skilled back then.


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People have survived more than 2,000 years of Bronze Age with knife from bronze :) Today even steel like S110V for us is not good enough for two days in nature ................ ;)

jeffetcs said:
Hello Blade Forums users! I am a new user on this site, and I am looking for recommendations on a good fixed survival knife.

I've been looking at the TOPS Black Rhino
Esee 6
Ontario Rat 7
Tom Brown Tracker Knife

These are the blades I have really been looking into.

I prefer, 1095 steel.

Thanks for anyone who replies!
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Select whichever knife you like from these and find more time to spend in nature ...........that is my advice
 
GREENJACKET said:
Stabman, I'm very happy for you that you are all survival tooled up.

I have disc compression now (had it operated on) from carrying far too much weight for the military when I was in my twenties.
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You can be all tooled up too; just add "survival" to everything you own (you may even be wearing "survival pants" at this very moment! :D).

My back sucks too, mostly due to muscle spasms resulting from genetic condition (yay!); have some spine arthritis starting too, but I didn't even notice it till they pointed it out from a scan...the muscle spasms blot it right out.

It doesn't matter if I carry extra weight or no weight at all; my back just decides on its own what will occur; I'm just along for the ride.
Unless I carry a 70 pound pack; did that once, and it was shear hell. That's what happens when you listen to someone else about you need with you though. ;)

My "survival walking stick" keeps me moving along though, till I can make it to the "survival bus," or the "survival car" (if I'm out there with someone else).

I don't even get a cool story to tell as to why my back sucks either...unless I make it up...yeah, let's do that.
My back is wrecked from all the extra gymnastic sex I had to endure when caught by an uncontacted Amazonian tribe while out on a survivaling expedition.
Yeah, that sounds better; going with that. :thumbup:
 
In the end, a guy will have to learn what works for him from first hand experience. You'll see what works and what doesn't. Most if us have (or had) tools, knives, guns, etc, etc, etc that we wouldn't go out and buy again today. It helps to learn from the experience of others, but we don't always do that.


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