Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

[Elen]

Unfortunately, this presumes that all cars of the same make and model will be able to withstand the same gross abuse, contrary to the owner manual's recommendations, to the same degree. Basing your purchase on this type of destructive abuse, which is neither consistently reproducible nor within the scope of the car's requirements, is foolish.

I don't purchase a stapler based on which stapler can be hammered through a concrete wall. I purchase a stapler based on its ability to staple paper in the context of an office environment.

No, to me it seems simply to presume that there will not be enormous variations in the durability of different samples of the same make and model with the exception of those caused by manufacturer's error. As for the owner's manual, some cars have manuals that do not advise against rough use, to continue this vehicle analogy. For a concrete example, ask Ranger Knives or Busse reps whether their knives should only be used for cutting or whether they're "go" and "guaranteed" for "abuse" as well.

I think your stapler purchasing policy is a sound and agreeable one. But then, I do not think it includes buying a stapler that's excessively heavy, thick of build and somewhat less efficient than smaller, cheaper staplers in stapling paper in the office environment, does it? Because this is exactly what the likes of thick, heavy knives like the Project I are in the knife world - they are "tactical staplers", not so good at stapling but better than regular staplers for use as a makeshift hammer or club. And do you know what this makes them if they fail to do very well in this hammer and club role? Staplers that suck in every way except perhaps looking imposing and being expensive.

 

[STAGE 2]

Some cars will keep running if you purposely mistreat them, too. This does not mean a car that breaks down if you intentionally abuse it isn't a "good" car -- [/b]it simply means it does not have the threshold for foolish abuse that another vehicle might.[/b]

EXACTLY!!!! And that is what these knife tests do. They determine the threshold of abuse for knives. That may not interest you, but it certianly interests a majority of knife owners on this forum.

For the same reason people like to own robust cars, people like to own robust knives. You probably won't ever reach the threshold but its nice to know its there.

I don't purchase a stapler based on which stapler can be hammered through a concrete wall. I purchase a stapler based on its ability to staple paper in the context of an office environment.

And thats fine, but Phil's preferences are not everyone's preferences. Most of your objections have started with "I wouldn't do this" and "I wouldn't do that". Thats all well and good, but what you would or wouldnt do has no effect on what I or anyone else would do.

Suggesting otherwise is simply fallacious.

 

[nozh2002]

Part of my point on batoning is that if it is done correctly, any knife should be able to do it. I actually have to disagree with Vassili on whether or not Noss was doing it correctly. If it were done correctly the knife would not have broken, as the handle takes no stress when using proper technique. I guess that opens the possibility that it was simply vibrations from the hammer that shattered the knife, but it would have to be pretty darn brittle to do that.

Well again if you see video you should not speculate does he hold it right or not, because he did hold it right. I think the way it break suggest that this is some shock-wave inside blade body cause it to break, because there is not other force I can see at this point of blade. You may see that Noss put edge parallel to 2x4 and hit right same place where blade touch wood.

Also if you see his previous stage where he bend knife - handle stay just fine. So I do not think this was some bending which cause this breakage but the way shock-waves travels though blade body. And the fact that it is too thick may actually contrubute inot this failure a lot.

It will be interesting to see how same blade will behave with "blood grove". I start thinking that this blood groove is actually needed for better strength in this kind of situation not only makes it lighter.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Phil Elmore]

No, to me it seems simply to presume that there will not be enormous variations in the durability of different samples of the same make and model with the exception of those caused by manufacturer's error.

That's one of the many reasons these destructive tests are completely unscientific. Anyone who knows anything at all a about statistics knows you can't assume that. Your "sample size" is effectively one, which isn't a sample at all (statistically speaking).

 

[hardheart]

didn't CRK already comment on the QC of the blade. I thought they said there were no flaws from what they could discern from the returned pieces.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Doesn't change anything.

 

[Elen]

Doesn't change anything.

Why not? Can we not expect CRK to know what is and is not representative of the quality of their products, and to know when we are dealing with an unusually good or bad sample? And if not, why? CRK themselves said, I believe, that the performance of the knife in the "test" was not unexpectedly poor.

As for the tests being unscientific, that is correct. They are not scientific any more than your own knife reviews are. And yet both have some value, to some people, because there is in fact real information there. Sure, Noss and you both have small sample sizes. But it doesn't entirely negate the usefulness of what you do. It is not difficult to verify that Noss' results aren't all random or made up.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Again, this misses the point entirely, for the reasons previously stated.

 

[Morales]

Cars aren't knives and the other way round. Is it already time for those illogical comparisons? What about knives and ships? Or maybe couches...or Twinkies??

 

[Lycosa]

Morales---LOL! Thanks for the humor break!

 

[Elen]

Again, this misses the point entirely, for the reasons previously stated.

The reasons weren't very convincing when they were previously stated, and this has not changed. I find the transparent evasive tactics and unwillingness to actual discussion somewhat disappointing from a man who has previously voiced his disapproval of how others tend to argue not with his actual opinions but rather attack his personality or what they think he has said and done.

 

[Phil Elmore]

No amount of insistence will help someone who is being irrational see reason. Calling it "transparent" and "evasive" doesn't make it so. We reach a point where going around in circles doesn't really make any further difference.

 

[Elen]

True indeed. So, perhaps you could now try logic instead of insistence and ad hominems. Just a friendly suggestion.

 

[Phil Elmore]

That's ironic, given the level of insulting conduct I've tolerated.

 

[Elen]

That's ironic, given the level of insulting conduct I've tolerated.

And yet you have done your fair part to contribute to the insults towards various persons in this thread. Noss has been insulted more than anyone else, it seems. But insults I suppose go with the territory.

 

[theonew]

Reading back through this thread I can only assume that Phil considers it insulting conduct for people to disagree with him.

 

[STAGE 2]

I find the transparent evasive tactics and unwillingness to actual discussion somewhat disappointing from a man who has previously voiced his disapproval of how others tend to argue not with his actual opinions but rather attack his personality or what they think he has said and done.

Its funny how many here can't swallow their own pills.

Reading back through this thread I can only assume that Phil considers it insulting conduct for people to disagree with him.

Its not just this thread.

 

[Cotherion]

The videos are of value to those who see it as so.

Personally I like the vids. Imperfections or inconsistencies that I'm aware of I'm fine with them. It gives me an idea of what it can or can't do (limits). As to what is a knife expected to do (realistically) it differs from individual to individual and also to the marketing/advertising of the maker. Meaning not all knives are to be judged the same.

I personally think that perhaps Noss' tests will be more refined in time. I figure he's impartial/fair IMO and if he does feel his tests are done improperly he'll re-do them (depending on knife availability either by budget or donation).

For now, keep em coming Noss.

 

[emperorwang]

True, in this and other threads Sharp Phil does not tolerate any viewpoints that conflict with his own, and often calls them "childish". And I have nothing against Phil, as I've stated I read his knife reviews just like I read anybody else's. But his forum conduct can be pretty bad at times. Just calling a spade a spade.

And while I agree that noss's test methods are very unscientific, I think they have some value. Some people want knives that are just crazy tough; they want the absolute toughest knife they can get. This is why people buy ferrarris when a geo metro will get them to their destination just as well. This is why people buy 50 caliber handguns. Some people just want the best. And that's not a bad quality to possess.

We're grown men, but deep down inside of us all there is still that little boy who was first taken with knives, who knew nothing of their history or the art of their construction, but was still in awe of them. Because knives are COOL. On a gut level. This is the part of us that wants the toughest, most badass knife we can get. This is the part of us that Noss's tests appeal to.

 

[nozh2002]

I still see no scientific basis to call Noss4 test unscientific. This is similar to what I see in physical labs. Of course it was not knives but some lasers and some optics, but in general before it hits Hollywood it looks like what Noss4 have. His shop may have bit different equipment, but he is doing what practical physicists doing - researches.

Now in time he may represent refined results of his researches as an article in some magazine and make PHD out of it, but before this will happen he need to gain some data and this is what he is doing.

I am risking to be not pollite, but I always want to ask what actual education level have all that people who throw at him "not scientific"? What is there experience with science process?

On my opinion Noss4 is most advanced scientist in Knife World. He is building research environment, which does not yet exist. He went much far then everybody else in this direction.

Can all this "scientists" show any "scientific" research on this subject? Probably very few. And what is Noss doing - actual practical science finally emerging in Knife World.

Thanks, Vassili.