Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

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Broos said:
Just because a review is not scientific in nature, doesn't mean you cannot learn something from it.

And if you can learn something from an act (or a video), does not make it a scientific test.

The requirements for a scientific test are well known in the fields of science and engineering. Using trial and error in a careless fashion may be how some use the scientific method to solve their everyday problems, but does not mean anything in regards to whether the test is "scientific" or not.

Think of it this way. You are a 2nd year college student taking a lab on materials. Your Professor assigns you to test knives. Do any test you want to, but test knives in a scientific fashion. If you turned in these videos, what grade would you get? Absolutely one of the criteria they would look at is repeatability, & they would also look at how well you tested the quality you stated in your hypothesis (and how well you defined the quality), or how well you tested the theory in your hypothesis.

You know, before you can come up with a scientific test to determine whether a knife is suitable for "hard use" or not, you HAVE to define what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable performance for a hard use knife. Without a scientific definition for this, it is impossible to determine whether these videos or any other test is a scientific test for it!!

For those who insist a hard use knife must survive repeated blows by a hammer, you could extrapolate some useful info from the videos. For those who think a "hard use" knife does not need to survive steel hammer blows, then it would not be very useful. You cannot tell from the videos if the same knives would have failed if hit similarly by the same weight wood, plastic, or brass hammer.

Much of the disagreements in these threads is about the definition of "hard use" - they have little to do about the videos themselves - many think hitting the spine with a steel hammer is not a very good test for determining whether a knife is suitable for hard use. It is a fact that the impact pressures are far greater with these impacts, because the impact area is much smaller given less deformation.
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well said, spoken much better than i could do it. that's what i've been trying to say all along.
 
you've misconstrued my position on this entire issue.

i don't want to know these things. i don't care. this whole discussion started when someone stated that the test were legitimate scientific tests, and i said that technically, they are not.

i don't own any crk knives nor do i have any plans to acquire one. frankly this quibbling over the definition of scientific vs. unscientific is tiresome and at a certain point everyone begins repeating themselves. i feel that i'm at that point.
 
just10minreader said:
You're the emperor :D
How Non-scientists use the Scientific Method

You are the emperor :D

http://www.vermontlaw.edu/x6716.xml
Craig M. Pease
Professor of Science and Law
PhD, University of Chicago, 1985;
MS, University of California, Los Angeles, 1981;
BA, University of California, Los Angeles, 1977

http://www.biosci.utexas.edu/ib/faculty/BULL.HTM
James J. Bull
* B.S., Texas Tech University, 1971
* Ph.D., University of Utah, 1977
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Emperor owned :D
(just kidding, OK?)

Actually, Og and Grog smashed a bunch of stuff before the wheel was realized.

It's the internet!
The dude has a hockey mask!
It's his schtick.

He is an entertainer that does bring some worthwhile info to the discussion of knife builds and extreme limit parameters.

IMHO, nothing more and nothing less. ;)
 
ADD said:
Emperor owned :D
(just kidding, OK?)

Actually, Og and Grog smashed a bunch of stuff before the wheel was realized.

It's the internet!
The dude has a hockey mask!
It's his schtick.

He is an entertainer that does bring some worthwhile info to the discussion of knife builds and extreme limit parameters.

IMHO, nothing more and nothing less. ;)
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
emperorwang said:
just10, i understand your point and the point of the "science for dummies" articles you quoted. i agree that trial and error is related to scientific method, but they are not the same. i'm not saying the tests should be overtly sophisticated. i'm saying that they should exhibit at least one of the hallmarks of accepted scientific experimentation.

and still, no one has addressed my following point. i'm going to put it in bold and maybe someone will address it.

HE ONLY TESTED ONE PROJECT 1 KNIFE.
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:D:D:eek::D Cheeze on a cracker man, you don't get, it is the same. The parameters of the experiments are "can noss do this to this knife and have the knife survive", it is the definition of scientific. Noss even documents it so you can replicate his experiment (thats a hallmark). Oh snap, my scientific professor didn't set the scientific parameters of my scientific experiments, must mean they're not scientific ;):D
Oh snap, we only experiment on one subject, must not be scientific experimentation. :D
 
Just some trivia for you guys: No thread in Knife Reviews&Testing has gotten as many replies as this one in the last three years...(maybe since 1998?). And Twinkies will break under a minimum of pressure...
 
Yup, that's what you get when people play verbal volleyball for a few weeks.
(I really wish this thread could have been more productive)
 
Sharp Phil said:
Now that sums it up nicely.
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I think we were not able to discuss real problem here - brittleness of CR Project I during carefull batoning. Question is still remain - Why this knife fail in simple practical situation like that one.

It is obvious that Noss4 conduct very careful batoning doint it proper way does not hit hard and blade get broken way far from hit point.

This is very clear to see for anybody who actually bother to check video itself.

However I see that most of "opponents" have no agenda to clear this case, but instead to fog it. There is no discussion here but some kind of PR battle with all this tricks on how to make your opponent looks bad, all this personal attack etc. One way or another but we are not able to discuss blade problem itself.

In result all questions asked are not answered. Crowd get polarized. More and more agression in this discussio. 90% of posts are pointless.

Does not it important to know why this survival knife fail?
Does not it important to know how to fix it?
Is this blade forum to discuss knives not opponents?

In my eye CR reputation now is very low and not because of this knife failure - which is not a big deal if you handle it properly, but because of this handling of this case. I know CR just do ignore this thread and it is "true believers" pushing this agenda here, but I just do not really want to be assosiated with this aggressive crowd and this company any way. I do not want to be attacked by angry mobs just because I ask simple reasonable question about my knife if somethin happen! I feel like it is great sin to question quality of it in any way and this is what I strongly disagree.

This is my summary of this topic!

Thanks, Vassili.
 
What is clear is that reality, logic, and even context don't matter to you and those who support hockey-mask-boy.
 
I personally have no dog in this fight, I just find it ludicrous to subject a knife, or for that matter any other tool, to tests that have no reflection on real life usage.

The tests prove little if anything when practicality is part of the equation. If the fellow has fun doing this, more power to him but I certainly hope that no one bases any purchasing decisions based on this foolishness.
 
Sharp Phil said:
What is clear is that reality, logic, and even context don't matter to you and those who support hockey-mask-boy.
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well, I do test transcript, I ask specific questions etc...

You drop here few word offensive statements like this and did not actually stay on topic. I have enough to observe what are you doing here.

I am not expert in PR warfare - I am interested in knives, in this particular case I am interested why this knife fail and I think it may be because of its sickness which make shock-wave travels inside certain way and accumulate somehow impact energy in break point. In this case simple blood grove may help.

But I guess to answer me you will throw at me some of you PR arrow (short remark) - something like non scientific, non logical or whatever you have there. I did observe you acting well to know what will happen most likely.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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