Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

[nozh2002]

I personally have no dog in this fight, I just find it ludicrous to subject a knife, or for that matter any other tool, to tests that have no reflection on real life usage.

The tests prove little if anything when practicality is part of the equation. If the fellow has fun doing this, more power to him but I certainly hope that no one bases any purchasing decisions based on this foolishness.

You really need to see video! There is huge effort here to represent this tests as breaking knife for fan - which is not true! And to see this simple whatch video!

When this knife get broken he very carefully batons it into 2x4 - very gentely and he was not expecting this knife to fail - this is very obvious! Just have a look yourself do not fall into this PR trap carefully prepared here!

Here it is - very clear that this is carefully conducted test!

Can you give exact time.

He started at
5:45 - perfect batoning according to that pdf. You may see no shaking on handle.
5:52 - same perfect batoning edge flat on wood no shaking on handle.
5:56 - same - may be some minor shaking at the begining - but not at all as in "bad example" from that document. And most likely because entire set up shaked.
6:04 - perfect.
6:07 - perfect.
...

Can you just give exact point of time where you see him doing this wrong?

Thanks, Vassili.

OK, I checke final blow - it is 8:50 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VmWJOAJB5I

Absolutely clear that he is doing this just right when it broke! Nothing like it was in that article! No any shaking on the handle - entire set up shake a bit but nothing what may cause breakage as it was written at that document.

Please, everybody have a look! It is clear that he did not expected it, it is clear that he did not have any pressure on handle, it just fall apart 3" from the place where it was hit, 3" from the wood.

It just looks like separate by itself - I am very sure that this is some shock waves in the blade body, because it is too thick. From other hand Busse is thick as well and has no such problem.

Thanks, Vassili.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Phil Elmore]

The tests prove little if anything when practicality is part of the equation.

Exactly. But of course practicality and reality must be dismissed, shouted down, and derided if one dares to question the Almighty Unidentifiable Hockey Mask.

 

[nozh2002]

Exactly. But of course practicality and reality must be dismissed, shouted down, and derided if one dares to question the Almighty Unidentifiable Hockey Mask.

I guess this is pretty logical and scientific personal attack.

Well, this is very clear and loud message of certain sort. I hope now it is clear to everybody not only to me what is going on.

I still like to discuss topic and shock waves travelling inside thick blade body. They may accumulate in certain point - like lens effect, and so break blade. I am wondering if small modification like blood grow may help. May be certain grind can reflect this waves - after all convex and concave grinda are shaped like lenses and can focus reflected shock waves in some point. This is what may happen in this case and Noss just manage to hit weakness point from which shockwaves reflected all in that break point. Way it broke does not suggest that it was violent external force but something from inside.

I pretty sure that this was problem for swords in middle ages and they resolves it with special profile of the blade. I am wondering if CR may try this modification and send it to test to Noss4.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I did not initiate any personal attacks. They have been plentiful from Hockey Mask and his followers, however. When that is the level of discourse one offers, that is the level of discourse one gets. I even gave Hockey Mask the opportunity actually to take responsibility for his work, but he refused -- and tersely. This tells us what we need to know about the level of intellectual honesty of the "tests" conducted.

 

[Elen]

I think we were not able to discuss real problem here - brittleness of CR Project I during carefull batoning. Question is still remain - Why this knife fail in simple practical situation like that one.

I've had enough of this topic already, but... while my opinions have, I think, been made otherwise clear in previous posts, I would like to take this opportunity to say...

That I really don't see how batoning with a metal hammer could be considered "careful." Batoning with a wooden baton, sure - that I could call careful. But with a hammer, it's just not in my vocabulary. It's still batoning, but it isn't by any means careful in my books. I've batoned with a hammer, but I thought it was rather extreme use instead of "careful."

 

[jvan]

Vassili, FWIW I did in fact watch the entire video.

In my lifetime I have done a quite a bit of batoning both in the woods and around the house making up some kindling for the fireplace.

While out in the woods never once have I been able to reach back into my pack and extract a three pound steel mallet. All of my batoning is done with a two to three inch diameter section of a limb. Around the house I use a baton that I fashioned a while back and it continues to serve me well.

Why did the Chris reeve knife fail? I have no idea all I know is that if it were my knife I would send it in under warranty. But, then again, I would have been using it for its "intended purpose".

 

[Kiah]

In my eye CR reputation now is very low and not because of this knife failure - which is not a big deal if you handle it properly, but because of this handling of this case. I know CR just do ignore this thread and it is "true believers" pushing this agenda here, but I just do not really want to be assosiated with this aggressive crowd and this company any way.

I'd like to say something on this. While CRK doesn't respond to these threads, I believe it is for a good reason. They have no need to defend themselves. As far as handling this issue, they did it well. They tested the broken knife, released that it was not a HT issue, and even covered the knife under warranty. That is above and beyond what most other makers would've done. Regardless of toughness, CRKs reputation is solid.

What is clear is that reality, logic, and even context don't matter to you and those who support hockey-mask-boy.

Exactly. But of course practicality and reality must be dismissed, shouted down, and derided if one dares to question the Almighty Unidentifiable Hockey Mask.

I did not initiate any personal attacks. They have been plentiful from Hockey Mask and his followers, however. When that is the level of discourse one offers, that is the level of discourse one gets. I even gave Hockey Mask the opportunity actually to take responsibility for his work, but he refused -- and tersely. This tells us what we need to know about the level of intellectual honesty of the "tests" conducted.

Phil, it seems you've gotten to the point that personal attacks and kindergaten type name calling is the best you can do. When most of your recent posts consist of schoolyard bullying and one liners, you should probably take a step back and formulate a decent response before posting. Remember, quality not quanity.

As far as personal attacks being plentiful from "Hockey Mask and his followers" (which has been addressed already), please point them out. I haven't read this whole thread, but the only personal insults I have read have been from you. And not agreeing with you or pointing out your hypocrisy is not considered an insult.

 

[nozh2002]

Vassili, FWIW I did in fact watch the entire video.

In my lifetime I have done a quite a bit of batoning both in the woods and around the house making up some kindling for the fireplace.

While out in the woods never once have I been able to reach back into my pack and extract a three pound steel mallet. All of my batoning is done with a two to three inch diameter section of a limb. Around the house I use a baton that I fashioned a while back and it continues to serve me well.

Why did the Chris reeve knife fail? I have no idea all I know is that if it were my knife I would send it in under warranty. But, then again, I would have been using it for its "intended purpose".

Well, it is possible to use rock for batoning by some customers - you do not insist that your personal experience is only valid. In this terms hammer is good substitute for rock in testing environment. So fact that this is hammer can not dismiss this test, especially when many other knives doing just fine. I do not think that we just reject this tests and close this issue this way.

If you see video you should agree that this is not destruction for entertaining but careful testing.

I think that shape and thickness is somehow responsible for this breakage - they way it broke suggest that this happens not because of external brutal force. If so - simple modification may resolve this issue.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nozh2002]

I'd like to say something on this. While CRK doesn't respond to these threads, I believe it is for a good reason. They have no need to defend themselves. As far as handling this issue, they did it well. They tested the broken knife, released that it was not a HT issue, and even covered the knife under warranty. That is above and beyond what most other makers would've done. Regardless of toughness, CRKs reputation is solid.

As I sad - observing how it was handled by CR customers I made my opinion. I do not want to be one of them - after all this personal attacks, name calling etc. It may have nothing to do with CR, but it does not make any difference to me. Sorry.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Again if I have some question about knife - I like to be able to discuss this issue, not being attacked just because some proud owner get defensive for some reason. I may be wrong, but I do not want to be called clown or CR hater etc. Which I observed a lot here any time CR knife is in discussion.

P.P.S. For example about year ago I question strength of frame lock - it did not sees to me that time that it has any advantage over regular Walker lock. Many knowlegeble people replied, we have marvelous discussion and came to conclusion that there is in fact certain advantages of frame lock - which I simple miss. Like ability to tighten it pushing it more in, which is impossible for lock which is not exposed... This is just perfect example as discussin here should be conducted. Instead any time CR (as well as some other manufacturers) is on topic we have those fights, personal attack, name calling... It should not be this way!

 

[Karda]

As far as personal attacks being plentiful from "Hockey Mask and his followers" (which has been addressed already), please point them out. I haven't read this whole thread, but the only personal insults I have read have been from you. And not agreeing with you or pointing out your hypocrisy is not considered an insult.

Maybe you should read the whole thread then before making blanket statements, much as your destruction filming friend has.
And that's mostly the problem i've had with the so-called-tests.
IF they were done in a mature manner and presented in a mature manner , just possibly they would be taken in a mature manner and discussed in a mature manner. Apparently that is too hard of a concept for a few here to grasp.

 

[orthogonal1]

IF they were done in a mature manner and presented in a mature manner , just possibly they would be taken in a mature manner and discussed in a mature manner. Apparently that is too hard of a concept for a few here to grasp.

This statement makes me wonder if you have watched the tests.

Can't imagine a much more candid and straight forward discussion as the tests are performed.

I didn't see nor hear any "mad scientist" giggles or yells of joy when something fails. Nor any the the common behavior one would expect from a 10 year old.

 

[Kiah]

Maybe you should read the whole thread then before making blanket statements, much as your destruction filming friend has..

I fully revealed that I had not read the whole thread. I will make some time later to do so. That said, Phil accusing others of throwing insults is a bit of pot and kettle logic. It seems that every time these threads pop up, it reverts to "But he wears a hockey mask." It's a bit silly. :yawn:

 

[RobertJ]

As I sad - observing how it was handled by CR customers I made my opinion. I do not want to be one of them - after all this personal attacks, name calling etc. It may have nothing to do with CR, but it does not make any difference to me. Sorry.

I think ive heard it all now. you wont buy a knife from CR because you think some of the CUSTOMERS are rude?

 

[nozh2002]

I think ive heard it all now. you wont buy a knife from CR because you think some of the CUSTOMERS are rude?

Try to hear this once more:

...if I have some question about knife - I like to be able to discuss this issue, not being attacked just because some proud owner get defensive for some reason. I may be wrong, but I do not want to be called clown or CR hater etc. Which I observed a lot here any time CR knife is in discussion...

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I think ive heard it all now. you wont buy a knife from CR because you think some of the CUSTOMERS are rude?

I've never owned a Chris Reeve knife.

I do, however, know BS when I hear it (even when it's hidden by a hockey mask).

 

[nozh2002]

I've never owned a Chris Reeve knife.

I do, however, know BS when I hear it (even when it's hidden by a hockey mask).

It does not make difference to my if you do what you are doing because you own CR knife or because you just like doing this - one or other way it is impossible to discuss issue with CR knives without all this un-nesesary emotional level, without name called and all that other "flavor" which all those CR discussion have. If it is not owners - then somehow it attracts certain type of people - but anyway no reasonable discussions on CR I see so far.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I say what I say because I believe in logic and reality over illogic and wishful thinking. I'm sorry you and Jason X don't like it.

 

[nozh2002]

I say what I say because I believe in logic and reality over illogic and wishful thinking. I'm sorry you and Jason X don't like it.

I learn logic in 7th grade and then later in University, I also using it in my job all the time on daily basis for years - boolean algebra is basis for any computer business.

I think I am an expert in this - whatever you doing here has nothing to do with logic. Has nothing to do with knives etc... It is all personal attacks, name calling, etc...

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. I think scientifically speaking what are you doing is some parts or rethtoric, sophistic in particular, but not as part of logic science, but like practical sophistic to manipulate words terms etc... Mixed with personal attack, name calling etc...

 

[Phil Elmore]

If you think you're an expert, by all means, don't let me interfere with that.

 

[mmmotorcycle]

I am pretty sure that Phil is just calling it as he sees it. Is it not a good thing to want a name and a face to associate to Noss character?