Chris Reeve Knives - The Emperor's New Clothes?

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Sharp Phil said:
This thread is an obvious act of trolling.
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No, it is absolutely not. I know Theo personally, have shared a campfire with him, and spoken to him extensively on the phone and by email. I and many others here consider him a friend.

This is where words on a page - minus body language and tone of voice - can cause the wrong impression. I believe Theo is asking these questions honestly, without having a dog in the fight at all. What he posted about CRK is what he's found here on the forums. He's asking -- "what is the real deal here?"

Theo, I can tell you that when I did Ron Hood's "Solo Survival" video, my co-crew, Radio Ray, had the CRK one-piece with an 8" clip-point blade. It had been his primary hard use knife for years before that, and it still is his primary hard use blade. We beat the living snot out of that knife on that trip - three weeks in the Idaho backcountry in harsh conditions - and it did not even hiccup. It held and edge superbly and was a true, proven performer in real-world conditions.

Sometimes on the forums, like the newspapers, you only read the bad news and think that everything is bad, when it in reality it is a small percentage of the overall output, the vast majority of which is excellent. It can skew the impressions easily of a knife company, or any situation.
 
Large is better for spreading mayo on my sandwich for lunch. Small rides better in my pocket when I'm wearing "nice" clothes. (khakis or shorts instead of jeans.) Honestly if I'd have gotten a small first, I'd probably have two small Sebbies instead of a large and a small.

you thinking of getting one?

GDWTVB
 
Brian Jones said:
Sometimes on the forums, like the newspapers, you only read the bad news and think that everything is bad, when it in reality it is a small percentage of the overall output, the vast majority of which is excellent. It can skew the impressions easily of a knife company, or any situation.
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However, (and I'm not saying it necessarily is) the converse of that statement can be true. Sometimes all you hear are the good things, and the success stories. :) Anyone tried a good weight loss plan you saw on TV yet?
 
gdwtvb said:
Large is better for spreading mayo on my sandwich for lunch. Small rides better in my pocket when I'm wearing "nice" clothes. (khakis or shorts instead of jeans.) Honestly if I'd have gotten a small first, I'd probably have two small Sebbies instead of a large and a small.

you thinking of getting one?

GDWTVB
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I actually own a large and small but trying to decide which to sell off. I'm leaning toward keeping the large because a Spyderco Caly 3 serves perfectly as a small EDC but then I think I should keep the small because my Benchmade 710 or Spyderco Military are great as a large knife.
 
Maybe a little expensive, But I sure do like my large sebenza edc. I don`t know Mr. Reeve personally, But I sure like his knives.
 
have you seen the photos fo the new Spyderco Sage Reeve Integral Lock yet?? That's another on on my to buy list. Depending on how I like that one I may let one of my Sebbies go too. (probably give it to my son.) I've heard good things about the Caly 3. Everyone says it's a great cutter, esp on cardboard and the like. I need to get something with that ZDP steel to try it out. I was hoping one of the mules will be offered in it. Later GDWTVB
 
I think it was an excellent idea for a post as I have wondered the same thing myself. I don't own a CRK knife partially because I don't think they are worth the money, but I have handled several. They seem to be pretty decent, I just can't justify spending the money for what it is.
 
mongomondo said:
I actually own a large and small but trying to decide which to sell off. I'm leaning toward keeping the large because a Spyderco Caly 3 serves perfectly as a small EDC but then I think I should keep the small because my Benchmade 710 or Spyderco Military are great as a large knife.
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Sell the large. I sold mine because the small sebbie is way more easy to carry and does the same shit the large does. The large is quite a bit of bulk and it's pretty heavy, especially compared to the small. I find the seb carries better than the caly 3 because it has a thin profile and isn't as rough on the pockets. IMO the small seb blows the caly completely out of the water as far as edc goes. It's way more versitile. I was in the same position as you, I felt like I only really needed to have one large knife, and my 710 fit that bill perfectly. Large pocket knives are overrated anyway.
 
As one poster put it, a thread in this vien seems to pop up every few months, lots of info and opinions.

I think the reputation CRK has built by virtue of hard work and good customer relations is one of the reasons the firm may seem to be so fervently defended. Good people that seem to do right by their customers. To address the forum participation, it doesn't matter much if they are very active to me, I just figure they step in when required and are busy with work and life. The Spyderco participation is great over in their area.

None of the deficiencies you mention have shown up in my two Sebs except for my small classic was stiff to open and loosened noticeably during the first 2 hundred or so openings. Won't say it can't happen though. The sharper than usual stud I kinda like as it works well for me.

For the first while of getting into knives I couldn't see the attraction of a Seb at even half the price. Underwhelming is the word that came to mind. Many spoke highly of them and my couriosity got the better of me and I had one on the way along with a Green Beret. When I first got it I thought it may have been a mistake to have spent that much on a folding knife. It took awhile to appreciate it, and while sharp, it certainly was not Spyderco outta the box sharp. The more I used it, the more I enjoyed it and now it I have to say it was some of the best money I've spent on a knife. Virtually maintenance free in my use. Since buying my large regular CGGraphic a year ago, I haven't bought a knife although there are a few I'd like. Faithful companions on adventures and day to day mundane. If I could have one brand only, everything else would go and I'd still have my Chris Reeve knives.

The five CRK knives I have appeal to the wannabe machinest in me and I can appreciate the tool/machine work to build them. My finest tools similar to Surefire and Snap on. Perhaps this is a bunch of blah that you've already spent much time reading, but I hope it might give a wee bit of insight into one guys perspective on a well worn query.
 
jimbo@stn23 said:
I think the reputation CRK has built by virtue of hard work and good customer relations is one of the reasons the firm may seem to be so fervently defended.
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Or it might just be that intellectually dishonest, foolish, ignorant, or just plain stupid criticism is just that. People tend not to appreciate that kind of thing. I don't even own a Chris Reeve knife. Never have. Yet these ridiculous threads that first create a dishonest straw man ("Chris Reeve is irrationally defended from criticism!") and then kick it over using outrageous and even absurd illogic ("The guy in the hockey mask broke it while abusing it, so all Chris Reeve knives suck!") persist, specifically because some people just live to crap all over anything that is popular on the idea that this will make them seem wise and discerning.

Brian has spoken up for the original poster in this case, and that's good enough for me in this case. But this trend continues regardless, and it is promulgated by a very specific subgroup of online knife enthusiasts.
 
I don't think the OP is trolling. The whole Sebenza issue is subjective. I think that CRK is a great company that produces a good product backed by excellent QC as CS. I personally have owned 3 and eventually sold them. They do not fit me ergonomically and I have never really seen the draw of them. They always remind me of custom Douk.

I think a lot of people love them because historically they were one of the first production knives that had exceptional QC and great CS. When you look at what else was available from production companies in 1990 CRK was a hell of a knife. In the past 18 years most companies like Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw etc have caught up in the QC and CS departments that were once unique to CRK. This does not diminish what CRK has accomplished. They have had an impact on the knife industry and it is our good fortune that a lot of companies have followed their lead.
 
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From my experience i think threads like this come up because of the cult like following CRK has. Someone says they don't like or something bad about one of their knives and they are automatically labeled a troll, lier ect. That rubs a lot of people the wrong way so people then look for every fault in the company they can due to the fanatical following of the company rubbing them wrong. CRK does have duds as do all companies. When you sell a high volume you are bound to have some duds.

Also for some CRK is a whole weeks paycheck and they really want to know if it is worth it for them to spend a whole weeks pay on a knife. I've never owned but have handled CRK's. In the end to me they just never gave me the wow factor to spend that much on them when i have knives that suit my every need well.
 
OK I agree with you... somewhat.

Sebenza:
Expensive? ...Oh yeah.
Could be better? ...Sure, I have a few small nitpicks.
Customer service? ...Pricey (they'll nickel and dime you for everything!) but even so, quite good.

Having carried a Sebenza for ever a year now I have come to really appreciate this knife. Not only is the design stunningly simple and refined, it just feels good to use. The jimping is smooth yet still grippy. The Ti handles are the only metal handles I've had no slippage complaints about. It packs quite a big blade into the handle... not really a huge one to me but it always seems like a tiny knife when it's closed up and in your pocket but quite a good performer and well-sized when open and in your hands. It's solid and built to be pretty tough -- of any folding knife, the Sebenza approaches the solid feeling of a fixed blade the most. It sharpens up easily and holds a great edge.

For what it's worth the Sebenza doesn't seem very special on paper but no knife I've owned since has managed to kick it out of my pocket. There's just something about it that makes it so great as an EDC that you just can't express with mere words. You just have to have lived with one for awhile to really "get it."

But the real point is... is it worth it?

For me... oh yeah, it's definitely worth it.
 
I have only handled a (large) Sebenza at a knife show, curious to find out how it was in reality. My impression was that indeed it was very well made, but I also thought that my ZT200 which cost roughly one third on the street offers the same quality. Definitely not less. Yes the ZT has "only" a liner lock, but it's a beefy one.
I don't have a problem with others buying a sebenza, it's not my money after all, but I couldn't see the added value above a ZT. Or, compare to a titanium framelock ZT 30x series which typically costs a bit more than half the price of a big Sebenza: in which aspect would the ZT be less excellent than the Sebenza?
The one CRK that I would love to own is the elegant Mnandi, but even so when it comes to well made gentlemen knives the stylish Fontenille-Pataud products are more to my taste.
I do plan to spend sebenza money on a knife in the coming months, but it will be on a rather special custom. Each to his own.
 
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Brian Jones said:
No, it is absolutely not. I know Theo personally, have shared a campfire with him, and spoken to him extensively on the phone and by email. I and many others here consider him a friend.

This is where words on a page - minus body language and tone of voice - can cause the wrong impression. I believe Theo is asking these questions honestly, without having a dog in the fight at all. What he posted about CRK is what he's found here on the forums. He's asking -- "what is the real deal here?"

Theo, I can tell you that when I did Ron Hood's "Solo Survival" video, my co-crew, Radio Ray, had the CRK one-piece with an 8" clip-point blade. It had been his primary hard use knife for years before that, and it still is his primary hard use blade. We beat the living snot out of that knife on that trip - three weeks in the Idaho backcountry in harsh conditions - and it did not even hiccup. It held and edge superbly and was a true, proven performer in real-world conditions.

Sometimes on the forums, like the newspapers, you only read the bad news and think that everything is bad, when it in reality it is a small percentage of the overall output, the vast majority of which is excellent. It can skew the impressions easily of a knife company, or any situation.
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I've never turned my technical training to rigorous knife testing. Just don't have the time for that sort of thing (or the equipment -- doing it 'right' wouldn't be cheap).

So, I only have anecdotal evidence.

Don't have a lot of Sebbies, like Jos. One good Large Classic Sebbie and a single One Piece (Jereboam). I keep all my knives properly cleaned and oiled; otherwise, I tend to treat them harshly. I use them where and when I need to and that is that!

Both Sebbies have served me very well. The One Piece doesn't see as much use, but I can attest to excellent ergonomics (best with gloves) and a good edge that holds up well and is easily restored. While it's not a great shovel, it has even done that duty in a pinch. The folder is just superb -- probably the #1 knife on my EDC rotation and it does that job with class and style.

It doesn't hurt that I picked up the Large Classic from a man I've learned to respect and admire greatly. So ... whenever I'm carrying it ... I remember him. :D You'd recognize his BF handle if I provided it. ;)

Do I wish they were less expensive? Of course! But I've learned over the course of a long life that good, reliable tools are seldom cheap.

FWIW, I don't feel the OP was trolling. It seemed sincere to me. As to enthusiasm, I smile when I see/hear it. I've seen more than enough of the negative side of life and I appreciate passion when I come across it. :D
 
I have always thought the MSRP was high and I still think it is high. But I got a chance to buy 10 years old Sebenza for a lot less and I think it is very good knife. I like it.
 
The underlying current of these threads usually boils down to 'is it worth it?'

I agree that it is a strawman argument to talk about performance relative to other more economic models. You would be extremely hard pressed to demonstrate that a CRK can do any knife related thing better as compared to a cheaper knife. Of course, the crux is that when trying to build this comparison the detractors are able to throw up an infinite number of knives to compare against CRK, the only criteria being that they are cheaper. Clearly a CRK is not better then the 'best in' category of every other knife that happens to be lower priced than it.

While not a current owner of a CRK knife (but I aspire to be one some day), there are two things that attract me to this company.

1) The elegance of their styling. Truly the sebenza exemplifies this. Looking at the CRK sebenza, one gets a sense of engineered simplicity. Function without excess, simplistic elegance. They have captured this extremely well.

2) Then there is the status and image thing. Folks tend to discount this as some weird need to show off one's wealth. I don't think that Seb. owners are trying to project wealth, but rather they are trying to project their selection of what they consider the best of the best in locking folders and industry standard with a gentleman's touch to styling. In the same vein that carrying a buck 110 comes with it a certain image, so does carrying a Sebbie. It isn't a perverse 'mall ninja' projection of adolescence fantasy of the 'tough tactical action hero'. In fact, it is totally the opposite of this image. If striders are the hummer driving folks of the world, then sebenza's owners more likely are attracted to BMWs. I am generalizing here but I think there is truth to it.

For myself, buying a Bradley would give me the sense of styling (1), but it wouldn't provide me with the image (2). After all, even the Bradley CEO admits that their offering was inspired as a copy of the sebenza.

Is (2) worth the extra $100-200 dollars. For many people it is worth it. Does that make them shallow? In my books no it doesn't. We project our image and style choice through many facets of our lives and this might be one avenue. Afterall, recession/depression aside, we live in a society where people drop $2000.00 every two years to replace perfectly functional computers simply because they are too lazy to clean the registry of their OS and perceive their system is too slow. Paying $400 for a dinner jacket or suit is pretty common. Paying $30,000 more for a vehicle than functional necessity demands is not only common place, in some circles it is the norm. How many people buy a new home that is just at their basic needs? Small sebenza = $330.00. Chump change, less then the cost of a cable television, or two fancy dinners.

Buying a sebenza isn't going to make me a better person and I won't have the best knife on the whole planet. However, it would give me some confidence that I have invested in one of the most respected and widely acknowledged 'great folding knives' that exist, from a solid and well respected company. A knife that possesses both great styling and engineering. Yes, there are cheaper knives that function as well or that look as good. But there is only one Sebenza. If I want all these attributes then I will look to CRK.
 
Nicely put kgd, I have a just slightly different take on part of your good post.

I never bought my CRK's to reflect my taste in knives, in most cases I'm almost embarassed to tell people what I've paid for my knives. And I figure better than 99% of the populace would have no idea what a Sebenza is or what it would cost. When asked I simply tell them it is a Sebenza made by Chris Reeve in Idaho. Half the time the next question is about price to which I usually reply with some helpful suggestions on where they can visit to learn more.

Those that know me well do know roughly what I spend on knives however and I guess that may reflect my taste but really, I don't care that much. I just enjoy sharp knives, good tools and using them.
 
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